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Fatality Statistics

BMW's are like Volvos. They are relatively safe machines, but another big part of their safety record is the type of people that buy them. Conservative drivers/riders and safety conscious for the most part.

I'm not sure I'd agree with the conservative statement, though definitely safety conscious! Most of the Beemer riders I know, myself included, will ride 10% faster than the speed limit and not slow for curves. Most of the cruisers I know, regardless of brand, ride 10% below the speed limit and crawl through curves. They are also less likely to wear protective gear or even to head check before turning or changing lanes lest their sunglasses get blown off.

I also hear a lot of talk in that crowd perpetuating myths: LPSL, helmets will break your neck, never use the front brake, etc. I think that herd attitude and group riding keeps novice riders from ever fully developing their skills. As others have said, the attitude among experienced long distance solo or small group riders regardless of brand is completely different.
 
Most of the Beemer riders I know, myself included, will ride 10% faster than the speed limit and not slow for curves. Most of the cruisers I know, regardless of brand, ride 10% below the speed limit and crawl through curves.

And there you have it; the answer.

Germany has less fatalities percentage-wise of the population, than the US. It must be the no speed limits on the autobahn.
 
I'm not sure I'd agree with the conservative statement, though definitely safety conscious! Most of the Beemer riders I know, myself included, will ride 10% faster than the speed limit and not slow for curves.
Agreed, by conservative I meant riding within their skill level and conditions allowing. That usually exceeds the posted limit. As a side note, I find myself regularly passing Harleys on my Ural, that thing has 40 hp for 800lbs and tops out at 65mph!
 
Agreed, by conservative I meant riding within their skill level and conditions allowing. That usually exceeds the posted limit. As a side note, I find myself regularly passing Harleys on my Ural, that thing has 40 hp for 800lbs and tops out at 65mph!

And I was being conservative by admitting to exceeding the speed limit by just 10%. :whistle
 
And there you have it; the answer.

Germany has less fatalities percentage-wise of the population, than the US. It must be the no speed limits on the autobahn.

:dunno"must be the answer"? :dunno
Does Germany have the same demographic operating vehicles as in USA? Teens on I-phones, adults on I-phones, big mac in one hand phone in the other,running red lights(seems to be the new bad driver thing now days?)driver training(or lack there of) similar approach to DUI issues,licensing requirements(I'm 70+ & they have no idea if I can still see!) etc., etc.? Lots of factors, to say the least!:scratch
Question is based on -I don't know the answer.:dunno
What I do know is that we don't approach the problem from a pro-active stance in USA-I'll avoid getting too deep into one of my fave soap box issues...:whistle:whistle
 
Market share, miles ridden per year, age/experience of rider, helmet use. All would help. I remember one stat years ago that a good percentage of motorcycle fatalities did not even have a motorcycle endorsement.

Further considering that 50% of rider fatalities don't even have a motorcycle license, I feel that if they couldn't be bothered getting properly licensed that the following may apply.....

They are very new to motorcycling or and/ or they are riding a bike they borrowed.
They are probably not interested in ATGATT
They have had no riding instruction.
That they have a poor attitude toward safe riding and following traffic laws in general.

All contributes to possibility of a crash and a poorer chance of surviving one.
 
every day commuter

Hey guys n gals, interesting topic to say the least.
Just out of curiosity, how many have dropped
/accident, how many years in the saddle?
It seems more like driver attitude and experience cones into account rather then vehicle type.
Also a bigger issue now is the use of smartphones and other devices, people have become plain stupid when driving cars and using a dumbass phone. It should be illegal and if you were in an accident using one you should get in serious trouble. Cause a death automatic life in prison, end of discussion
!
 
Aside from my little Suzuki, I've been commuting since '76. I've only had 2 mishaps, both times being rear-ended. I've had plenty of close-calls, as most commuters have.
 
A few years ago I was dispatched to a single-vehicle motorcycle crash on the Apache Trail. When I arrived on scene there was a beautiful pimped-out Harley in the ditch with a rider wearing a new hole in his head. I forgot to mention his helmet was strapped onto the sissy bar.

Zero sympathy for him or his family for that one.
 
One thing I applauded ABATE is the group is starting to try and make sure the driver does not get off lightly. In this county we treat driving too lightly, in Europe drunk driving is a crime, not is the USA.

OK, but what if no malice is intended? If the other driver just makes a mistake and the motorcyclist has no safety equipment, why should we prosecute the other driver as a criminal for an accident that would have been a fender bender, if both vehicles were cars? If the motorcycle rider rejects the option to wear safety equipment, he/she must accept a portion of the responsibility for the injuries/damages incurred to themselves.
 
OK, but what if no malice is intended?

So what, they have to assume responsibility for their actions.

The old "I didn't see you" excuse is wearing thin. If they didn't see them, then they should be off the road.


If the other driver just makes a mistake and the motorcyclist has no safety equipment, why should we prosecute the other driver as a criminal for an accident that would have been a fender bender, if both vehicles were cars?

OK, so if I drive a 5-ton truck or tractor trailer and hit you in your car, I can tell you you should have been in a truck.


If the motorcycle rider rejects the option to wear safety equipment, he/she must accept a portion of the responsibility for the injuries/damages incurred to themselves.

A helmet does very little for you when you t-bone a car that is turning left in front of you.
 
I am with GR. Too easy and too little responsibility put on drivers AND riders. There are thousands of deaths a year from left turn encroachment

There is also a total disregard for MC and even bicycles from many DOT guidelines, and total ignorance from the highway workers. I have seen huge un-aggregated tar patches and smooth steel plates covering construction pits, both have traction equivalent to packed snow, when wet, and very hard to see!
 
Too easy and too little responsibility put on drivers AND riders.

If the government is short of money, there is soooo much money to be made handing out tickets/fines to drivers not following rules in manuals.

I also have a beef with tinted windows amongst all the other worthless small pecker syndrome bling (tinted tail lights, etc) on cars. They are so dark that even on a sunny day I cannot see the face/eyes of the driver in the car. Lets not even talk about the driver's ability to see out of the car at night. I don't give a rat's a$$ if he has a stop. I do want eye to eye contact confirmation as a hint that they at least maybe know that I am there.
 
I do want eye to eye contact confirmation as a hint that they at least maybe know that I am there.

That never helped me. In both of my wrecks caused by others pulling out in front of me I had eye to eye contact with the driver and they still pulled out then said they didn't see me. I am watching the wheels now as other have suggested to see if that helps.
 
In both of my wrecks caused by others pulling out in front of me I had eye to eye contact with the driver and they still pulled out then said they didn't see me.

Nahhh, they saw you; they just didn't like you. :laugh

Having eye to eye contact is hundreds of times more useful than not having any.
 
"Life becomes simpler when the kids move out and the dog dies"

I've heard that said.
Some people in that stage of life take up activities that they didn't have time, money or lack of responsibilities to do earlier in life.
They have the money to buy a decent bike and want a nice riding one.
They think Harley fits the bill.
Reflexes have slowed and they don't have the experience from riding for many years to read situations.
Riding school give the basics, but it still takes time and millage.
I see many more older riders than I did 20 years ago (Has dependable electric start anything to do with this?).
Grey hair/beards and helmets too.
Maybe, if, Harley has a higher accident rate it's because of older first time riders buying the brand.
As to expand on the first post.
My first ride was on a 65 BSA C15 (250cc) then I bought a 73 Honda CB450. After that it was a 72 Norton 750 Commando, about 5 years ago I bought a 85 BMW R80RT. So I have moved up in size as the years passed. Less weight to control and power to play with worked well with my inexperience.
The Norton and BMW share garage space.
The Norton is lighter and more maneuverable, the BMW more comfortable for two up riding and long distances.
My point in bringing this up is, take your friend to motorcycle shows (not choppers), Bike nights and swap meets. Let them see what different types of bikes have to offer and think about how they want to ride( afternoon cruse, all day bimbles on back roads, over night stays needing luggage, long distance rides, camping, etc, etc). You shouldn't let them think they need a big motor. I rode to Dallas, TX to visit and ride with my brother. 2,600 mi in 6 days. No problems keeping up with traffic and I took my wife for a ride the next day ( wouldn't happen on the Norton).
I hope the suggestions help.
Frank
 
There is also a total disregard for MC and even bicycles from many DOT guidelines, and total ignorance from the highway workers. I have seen huge un-aggregated tar patches and smooth steel plates covering construction pits, both have traction equivalent to packed snow, when wet, and very hard to see!

FWIW, I worked for DOT in New York. Every chance I got, I pointed out the dangers of spreading crack-seal all over roads. I also pointed out the dangers of not matching up lanes when paving, and leaving edge traps when one lane is paved and the adjacent lane not matched up. I got in big trouble pointing out the folly of chip-sealing off-ramps on an Interstate highway. It wouldn't have so bad if they had broomed the off-ramps properly. I got quite the label of "trouble-maker," which might explain why I didn't get a promotion for 28 years.

I am now a happily retired highway engineer.

Harry
 
FWIW, I worked for DOT in New York. Every chance I got, I pointed out the dangers of spreading crack-seal all over roads. I also pointed out the dangers of not matching up lanes when paving, and leaving edge traps when one lane is paved and the adjacent lane not matched up. I got in big trouble pointing out the folly of chip-sealing off-ramps on an Interstate highway. It wouldn't have so bad if they had broomed the off-ramps properly.

I've noticed quite a big difference in the use of warning signs between Europe and North America.

There was actually a law suit filed by a German motorcyclist who had a bad accident due to road tar strips.


I got quite the label of "trouble-maker," which might explain why I didn't get a promotion for 28 years.

I am now a happily retired highway engineer.

I know the feeling! I was with defence as a civi for 21.5 years and had to fight for two promotions while idiots had them handed to them on silver platters. I competed for a position that I ended up not winning. I later found out the winning candidate was given the answers to the exam questions weeks in advance. Of course he was ex-military (well eff him!) It was "fixed" as so many thing were there. A third-world country would be less corrupt.

I took early retirement with an early departure penalty...could not be happier. :dance
 
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