Philip Seymour Hoffman- dead at 46

Omega Man said:

Jeezze
When I started this thread it was about the passing of an actor, an actor that I enjoyed seeing in movies- and now gone.
I don't know how it turned into the "I know more about addiction than you do thread".
Personal attacks about ones ability to Google/confirm information that is way off the topic will not be tolerated.
If you don't have the ability to make a post without belittling another- skip it.
Last warning.
Gary

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Surely you had to know? that just because you admired him, not everyone would. And some negative comments would arise. Which of course leads to the [chicken/egg] debate. Over addiction-v-decease.


I personally do not see any actor as brilliant/great. Yes I like[d] John Wayne, Bogart , Eastwood..etc. But i fail to see greatness or brilliance in any of them. So what I see here is a dead addict , dead by his own choice of lifestyle...nothing more.

Again I don't support personal attacks. But differences in opinion are sometimes heated.

Omega Man said:

When I started this thread it was about the passing of an actor, an actor that I enjoyed seeing in movies- and now gone.
I don't know how it turned into the "I know more about addiction than you do thread".

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Gary: It was inevitable, but regardless, a good topic.

Thanks Gary for what you do. Those that are so judgemental, on one side of this or the other, need to possibly step back and walk in the other man's shoes. It is truly a shame that knowledge of a subject DOES NOT bring an unbias opinion on this matter. hmmmmm.......health insurance treats drug/alcohol addiction for X amount of time in a HOSPITAL......hmmmm........health issue????.........DSMV has a whole section outlining drug/alcohol addiction and use..........

Again, walk in the other fella's shoes before one points a finger. Perhaps even look in the local phone book for an AA or NA meeting. Go to one, yes you can just walk in, all are welcome.....KNOW of what you speak. Experience what you are judging before you judge. Go to any surgical ward in a military or VA hospital and ask the patients if they CHOSE to be taking those pain meds that they are now addicted to..........my 18th birthday is July 7.........God bless.........Dennis

DennisDarrow said:

Again, walk in the other fella's shoes before one points a finger. ........Dennis

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+1!!

I think people live in their own sheltered, perfect world and refuse to do that! While I admit, there may be a good reason to say: "It wouldn't happen to me, I would never get addicted"..
What if it would happen to someone CLOSE TO YOU! Would you still call him/her a junkie and have no compassion??

Interesting statistic, I have not verified, but was from a national source. They claim 4 of 5 new heroin addicts transitioned from legal prescribed pain relievers that started their addiction, and because heroin is 1/4 the cost and more readily available.

That stat is the kind used to justify more $ aimed at some specific "problem".
The reality is that the drug of fashion changes regularly for many reasons as enforcement shifts, supply responds, etc.
One could write a slightly different and equally accurate version about every 5 years of our past history back to the 60s..Some would start with marijuana or even alcohol, others with pcp, cocaine, speed, or whatever

71243 said:

I personally do not see any actor as brilliant/great. Yes I like[d] John Wayne, Bogart , Eastwood..etc. But i fail to see greatness or brilliance in any of them.

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Wow, you have a tough yardstick! That's like saying Rossi is not great.

I think we need to separate greatness in one's career from being a great person. The people you mentioned were GREAT actors, skilled in their craft, but I have no idea if they were great people.

pffog said:

Interesting statistic, I have not verified, but was from a national source. They claim 4 of 5 new heroin addicts transitioned from legal prescribed pain relievers that started their addiction, and because heroin is 1/4 the cost and more readily available.

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That is certainly true around here. Doctors were handing out pain pills like candy for anything and everything - which stuff is really just synthetic opiates. When the kids used up the supply stolen from Mommy and Daddy, the dealers were ready with the Mexican brown heroin. That stuff is replacing methamphetamine.

jforgo said:

That is certainly true around here. Doctors were handing out pain pills like candy for anything and everything - which stuff is really just synthetic opiates. When the kids used up the supply stolen from Mommy and Daddy, the dealers were ready with the Mexican brown heroin. That stuff is replacing methamphetamine.

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I'm not going to say who is to blame, but you are correct on the prescription pain killers being a gateway to the lower cost heroin. Surprisingly, it was rural areas like Maine (logging) and Appalachia (logging and mining) that saw this problem 5 to 10-yrs ago when 50+ yr old blue collar workers started showing up for methadone treatments. Once they start on the pain killers, many are lost forever.

roborider said:

Wow, you have a tough yardstick! That's like saying Rossi is not great.

I think we need to separate greatness in one's career from being a great person. The people you mentioned were GREAT actors, skilled in their craft, but I have no idea if they were great people.

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Well I just do not see any greatness in acting? I mean hell we all [did] it as children. It is merely pretending..is it not? Pretend is a staple of childhood play. Yes adult actors have the added difficulty of remembering their lines [for that I give then credit] then they add the appearance of an emotion,...and there's that scene done. There is why I do not see greatness/brilliance ? And why I have difficulty understanding so many [regular] people seemingly placing actors on a pedestal ? to the point that some need to know what these people [actors] are doing every waking moment of their lives.

On Rossi?....he does things with a motorcycle that only a handful of others CAN do , and he does it better than most of them. That is an entirely different thing altogether {IMO} Great ? Brilliant ?....I dunno! But for sure an acquired skill, and added nerve. Much more of an achievement than pretending to be someone you're not...

Too me greatness..brilliance is people that changed the world, improved life. Pasteur, Einstein , Kane, Gates,etc. & so-on.

71243 said:

Well I just do not see any greatness in acting? I mean hell we all [did] it as children. It is merely pretending..is it not? Pretend is a staple of childhood play. Yes adult actors have the added difficulty of remembering their lines [for that I give then credit] then they add the appearance of an emotion,...and there's that scene done. There is why I do not see greatness/brilliance ? And why I have difficulty understanding so many [regular] people seemingly placing actors on a pedestal ? to the point that some need to know what these people [actors] are doing every waking moment of their lives.


Too me greatness..brilliance is people that changed the world, improved life. Pasteur, Einstein , Kane, Gates,etc. & so-on.

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Addressing your last comment first: Yes, those scientists changed the world and did great things. And I agree that people spend way too much time following the lives of actors (or sports figures, etc.), rather than living their own lives.

But I fail to see how you can't call someone a GREAT actor (not a great person, that's different). We all "acted" as children? Come on! Remake the "Godfather" movie. You play the role of Michael Corleone, I'll take on the role of "The Godfather." Something tells me that movie would would not be "great" with us in it.

roborider said:

Addressing your last comment first: Yes, those scientists changed the world and did great things. And I agree that people spend way too much time following the lives of actors (or sports figures, etc.), rather than living their own lives.

But I fail to see how you can't call someone a GREAT actor (not a great person, that's different). We all "acted" as children? Come on! Remake the "Godfather" movie. You play the role of Michael Corleone, I'll take on the role of "The Godfather." Something tells me that movie would would not be "great" with us in it.

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I agree completely....but yes I do see [acting] as just an extension of play-acting. And I do not see it as any form of greatness / brilliance. Their job [actors] is to entertain us. If they [play] their character in a convincing manner, and we enjoy said portrayal then they have done their job...nothing more.

For some reason I do not understand,.. this raises them to near God-like position in some folks eyes????????

When one of the passes it is no more of a loss , than the passing of any good person.

Sound like someone got their fine arts degree online...LOL. People appreciate and are willing to pay for a few hours escape from reality...be it a good movie, sports game or regional play. The better the person (actors) causing the escape, the more they are appreciated. If one is a John Wayne fan for 40 years and Wayne dies, ya might feel like a little bit of you (your experiences and likes) died with him. Einstein checks out, you may not have the same reaction. And one might want to substitute "the media" for the general public when it come to all the bemoaning. I think the media/marketing folks are much more responsible for the general aura of idolization, that some do not appreciate. The actors are doing their thing and going home. The media does much of the rest.

Everyone acts every day in their everyday lives. The difference is the script. How difficult is it to read a script and then interpret it for either an audience or a film director? Well, if you gone to any school for any length of time you probably have done a little stage acting, maybe even film or video. Maybe even took an acting course?

IMO, acting is not too tough and with a little practice most mildly intelligent people could do a reasonable job of acting. Look around the next time you're out and about. Most everyday people appear to look about the same as most actors. Take away the first maybe second big breaks and actors would emerge in real life in what would be considered the non-celebrity life.

IMO, someone wiring or plumbing, or building a house is a real celebrity. Not to leave out the mechanic who can replace valve guide seals without pulling heads, in the home garage, on a Saturday afternoon. Not to leave out all the labor that is back breaking and unheralded, without which the celebrities in our society could not function. Beeber, as an example, couldn't drive a Lambo unless some very skilled engineers and laborers first built it.

Motodan said:

I'll stack my 35 years of medical underwriting experience against your comments any time. I did not say overweight caused diabetes, I said it can be a contributing factor in many cases, specially adult onset (Type II) diabetes.

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Moto,
You're just a number cruncher. Sorry, but pure stats do NOT make a medical link. I do believe that obesity is a contributing factor, same with lack of exercise but show me one doctor who has evidence to PROVE obesity all by its lonesome causes the body to stop utilizing its own home grown insulin. For that matter what mechanism is it that causes obesity to increase the likelihood of diabetes. Taken in the context of what you said and how you said it, you tried to put diabetes and OD'ing on heroine in the same class. Not true.

Why don't you number crunch the increase in frequency of type II over the last 70 years. Also, changes in diet in general over in that time frame. Obesity may be just an indicator of the increase of processed sugar consumption and of other processed food products such as white bread. Is the rise in obesity and type II increasing at the same rate???

8ninety8 said:

Everyone acts every day in their everyday lives. The difference is the script. How difficult is it to read a script and then interpret it for either an audience or a film director? Well, if you gone to any school for any length of time you probably have done a little stage acting, maybe even film or video. Maybe even took an acting course?

IMO, acting is not too tough and with a little practice most mildly intelligent people could do a reasonable job of acting. Look around the next time you're out and about. Most everyday people appear to look about the same as most actors. Take away the first maybe second big breaks and actors would emerge in real life in what would be considered the non-celebrity life.

IMO, someone wiring or plumbing, or building a house is a real celebrity. Not to leave out the mechanic who can replace valve guide seals without pulling heads, in the home garage, on a Saturday afternoon. Not to leave out all the labor that is back breaking and unheralded, without which the celebrities in our society could not function. Beeber, as an example, couldn't drive a Lambo unless some very skilled engineers and laborers first built it.

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I absolutely agree.!!! and if I may ? add one. And I am serious....the garbage man!...is {IMO} one of the most important [in terms of occupation] persons on the planet. Do you want to do the job ? I do not. And imagine your neighborhood without them......I can skip a movie.....

Yeah, I completely agree. Why doesn't my garbage man apply himself and become a GREAT actor, then collect all those millions just waiting for him. Heck, forget him, I'm going to apply myself right now and collect on that easy to obtain acting career!

"To be or not to be, that is the question!"

Man, I think my bank account is already filling up.

chewbacca said:

Moto,
You're just a number cruncher. Sorry, but pure stats do NOT make a medical link. I do believe that obesity is a contributing factor, same with lack of exercise but show me one doctor who has evidence to PROVE obesity all by its lonesome causes the body to stop utilizing its own home grown insulin. For that matter what mechanism is it that causes obesity to increase the likelihood of diabetes. Taken in the context of what you said and how you said it, you tried to put diabetes and OD'ing on heroine in the same class. Not true.

Why don't you number crunch the increase in frequency of type II over the last 70 years. Also, changes in diet in general over in that time frame. Obesity may be just an indicator of the increase of processed sugar consumption and of other processed food products such as white bread. Is the rise in obesity and type II increasing at the same rate???

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Number cruncher, you might say that, but I have most numbers crunched for me...I try to apply their results. I apply that empirical data in consultation with a team of MD's from varying fields. Those MD's currently include several medical doctors well versed in endocrinology. So while you question the approach, it is quite well founded. You may suggest otherwise, but "math" is the answer in this case as it is in most. A scientific approach will always get you to the math portion, if you care to stay with it, to find the answers.

As for your question regarding links: More than 85% of people with type 2 diabetes are overweight. Research is ongoing as to why the overweight are more likely to develop type 2 diabetes. A prevalent theory is that being overweight causes cellular changes that make the cells resistant to insulin, a condition referred to as insulin resistance.

In someone with insulin resistance, fat, liver and muscle cells do not respond normally to insulin. The pancreas produces more and more insulin and, as a result, too much glucose remains in the blood instead of being taken into the cells. When someone has more fat cells than muscle cells, the insulin also becomes less effective. The cells that produce insulin must work harder than normal to keep blood sugar levels regulated, which can cause the cells to gradually fail.

As for classifying Type II diabetes and drug abuse at the same level (as a health and dollar risk), mortality wise there is actually an argument for that, but not here. If you would read more closely...the psychological factors that cause people to over eat, smoke, abuse alcohol, abuse other drugs and on, Can and DO contribute to excess morbidity and excess mortality. Regardless if it's a 320 pound overweight individual or a drug abuser, there are contributing aspects to reaching that point and beyond. That "beyond" could be developing and maintaining a Type II diabetic state due to excess weight (an addiction to food?) or finding solace in an alcohol/drug abuse situation (due to an emotional dysfunction?).

Chew...appreciate your "take" on conditions, verses decades of medical data and actuarial studies specifically designed to determine medical expectations based on causative factors and the medical modality applied...I'll go with the science.

Omega Man said:

Just learned that Phillip Seymour Hoffman was found dead at the age of 46. I first noticed the actor playing opposite Paul Newman and Jessica Tandy in "Nobody's Fool". With that behind him it seemed that the roles that he accepted, really added to the films he stared in. Sorta from memory, there was "Twister", "Boogie Nights" and a couple of my favorites- "Almost Famous" and "Charlie Wilson's War". Some of his later work included "The Savages" and "Capote" for which he won an Oscar.
As with many of the "talented", "brilliant", actors of our time, it appears he had his demons.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000450/

OM

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