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Philip Seymour Hoffman- dead at 46

Voni said:
http://debiehive.blogspot.com/2014/02/addiction-mental-health-and-society.html

Maybe it's even harder for a celebrity to deal with addiction because we as a society are so very hard on anyone who abuse drugs and then we hold celebrities to an even higher standard.

No easy solutions, surely. But understanding is a beginning. And the article I've cited above does a pretty good job at that.

IMHO.

Voni
Click to expand...

Thanks for this excellent article Voni. And thanks for starting this thread Omega Man. Some of the polarized opinions expressed in this thread are really great insights into a lot of things. I have to say I feel many are based in ignorance of what addiction really is and really, other than DieselYoda's brief encounter with Philip Seymour Hoffman, did any of us really know the man? Nyuh uh...

Still though, some really interesting things here.

To name a few:
- stardom and it's treatment by modern media. Bizarre isn't it?
- the value of human life and how much some people value it and others not so much.
- addiction and how little is really known about this all pervasive disease.
- human nature. Rightly or wrongly, we all judge people on some level, don't we?

I don't want to get into specific comments made here by members but suffice to say that many people with strong opinions are often found to be lacking in basic knowledge on the subject at hand. This includes me. I often find that I have made up my mind on something only to find later that I didn't have all the facts and once I did, I've often changed my mind.

Dr. Gabor Mate used to be our family doctor but he quit general practice around 25 years ago much to our disappointment. He did this to clear his head, get a chronic back problem fixed and then ended up studying addiction which here in Vancouver BC is an epidemic. His 20+ years working with addicts and studying addiction make this book he has written very insightful. What we think we know about addiction is mostly wrong and how we've been dealing with the problem is clearly not working. This is because our "knowledge" is largely based on completely false assumptions. The website has a lot of interesting info as well and here's the link to his book on the subject. http://drgabormate.com/book/in-the-realm-of-hungry-ghosts/

In the movie "The Master" I think we get some idea of PSH's addictive personality, his understanding of it as a demon and a muse and after his tragic death I think for me that movie is far more revealing of him not just as an actor but as a human being. With the sad benefit of hindsight, his dealings with Joaquin Phoenix are very telling.
 
Just a question to those that lessen PSH's accomplishments because he "willingly" ended his own life.

What do you think of:

Hemingway
George Eastman (Kodak)
van Gogh
Edgar Allen Poe

And countless others in history?
 
happy wanderer said:
I think the term is "accidental overdose" in these cases. Suicide is intentional.
Click to expand...
If you take a revolver with six cylinders and put in one bullet, is it an accident when the bullet takes out a big chunk of your head? What about two bullets??? Three, four, five.....? Is it only suicide if you put in six? Hemingway did not leave any room for doubt. At some point between the first injection (or whatever) and the last, he knew he was playing Russian Roulette. Maybe he thought he could beat the odds. Accident? Maybe he didn't care. Suicide?
 
happy wanderer said:
Thanks for this excellent article Voni. And thanks for starting this thread Omega Man. Some of the polarized opinions expressed in this thread are really great insights into a lot of things. I have to say I feel many are based in ignorance of what addiction really is and really, other than DieselYoda's brief encounter with Philip Seymour Hoffman, did any of us really know the man? Nyuh uh...

Still though, some really interesting things here.

To name a few:
- stardom and it's treatment by modern media. Bizarre isn't it?
- the value of human life and how much some people value it and others not so much.
- addiction and how little is really known about this all pervasive disease.
- human nature. Rightly or wrongly, we all judge people on some level, don't we?

I don't want to get into specific comments made here by members but suffice to say that many people with strong opinions are often found to be lacking in basic knowledge on the subject at hand. This includes me. I often find that I have made up my mind on something only to find later that I didn't have all the facts and once I did, I've often changed my mind.

Dr. Gabor Mate used to be our family doctor but he quit general practice around 25 years ago much to our disappointment. He did this to clear his head, get a chronic back problem fixed and then ended up studying addiction which here in Vancouver BC is an epidemic. His 20+ years working with addicts and studying addiction make this book he has written very insightful. What we think we know about addiction is mostly wrong and how we've been dealing with the problem is clearly not working. This is because our "knowledge" is largely based on completely false assumptions. The website has a lot of interesting info as well and here's the link to his book on the subject. http://drgabormate.com/book/in-the-realm-of-hungry-ghosts/

In the movie "The Master" I think we get some idea of PSH's addictive personality, his understanding of it as a demon and a muse and after his tragic death I think for me that movie is far more revealing of him not just as an actor but as a human being. With the sad benefit of hindsight, his dealings with Joaquin Phoenix are very telling.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this insight. I have more to learn ;)

Voni
 
I liked the man, I liked his work but since we went off topic.......

I heard on the news today, CJOB in Winnipeg, that HSC, our big hospital is experimenting with Gamma Knife procedures to reduce or possibly eliminate addictive compulsions.

Make your own assumptions how Nuclear Surgery on the brain affects will power.
 
Some interesting follow up links provided here on this sometimes contentious thread.

My opinion, which may earn me a well deserved timeout...

I don't believe that ALL addictions are a choice...

But I do believe a person can choose to be ignorant...

It takes some effort to overcome our "knowledge" and biases.

Just another personal opinion folks. :laugh
 
happy wanderer said:
I think the term is "accidental overdose" in these cases. Suicide is intentional.
Click to expand...


I agree, but early on someone invoked the "suicide" tag, rather than the illness recognition. I again ask if some consider food, alcohol, lack of exercise as suicide?

Millions die of Heart, diabetes, stroke etc. Is overeating, relaxing with a glass of wine, lack of exercise, food choices the same as Russian roulette??

Just asking where the line is drawn. And stating MOST of us have crossed it long ago.
 
pffog said:
I agree, but early on someone invoked the "suicide" tag, rather than the illness recognition. I again ask if some consider food, alcohol, lack of exercise as suicide?

Millions die of Heart, diabetes, stroke etc. Is overeating, relaxing with a glass of wine, lack of exercise, food choices the same as Russian roulette??

Just asking where the line is drawn. And stating MOST of us have crossed it long ago.
Click to expand...

Good points, but I'd add...as a heart patient and one time 'pre- diabetic'...

My particular path was somewhat selected by genetics. Only recently did I learn that I am what some in the medical field are calling carbohydrate "addicts". About 15 months ago, as a result of my own readings, I tried changing my dietary habits. This was NOT the first attempt, as I've struggled to maintain a reasonable weight since my teens. Literally, tried every diet plan out there, and tried to exercise more to no avail...

But, this time the changes worked...and it wasn't by some magical increase in will power nor exercise. Entirely due to a change in my blood sugar response by reducing carbohydrate intake drastically with an increase in protein consumption. Suddenly, like overnight, my food cravings disappeared and my weight started dropping. For some of us, the food guidelines are upside down. These days eat bread, potatoes, rice, and refined flour/sugar products very very rarely. No longer on the blood sugar roller coaster that drove my appetite to insane levels on a daily basis. Results? 60 pound weight loss, improved cholesterol, normal insulin response, and elimination of the pre-diabetic status. And still losing weight... :laugh

On the genetics side of things...I knew little about my extended family (parents divorced when I was 3) but learned eventually that males in my clan (yes, Scots heritage) rarely lived past 50 or so due to heart disease. Also discovered that two of my half brothers died even earlier, one at 29, the other at 38. During my medical journey it was discovered that my liver functions had changed, probably around 40 years of age, and more importantly the vessels supporting my heart are smaller than normal. Probably why I've never been very able to exercise very well? Upshot is that I survived nine heart surgeries in the nineties. And still here to complain about it! :whistle

So, based on my life experiences and intellectual curiousity I'm led to a conclusion that what we "know" about addictions has many gaps. Not entirely sure what the "truth" is, but still unwilling to condemn others, but willing to mourn the loss of another human being...

Best regards...to all
 
SeabeckS said:
Good points, but I'd add...as a heart patient and one time 'pre- diabetic'...

My particular path was somewhat selected by genetics. Only recently did I learn that I am what some in the medical field are calling carbohydrate "addicts". About 15 months ago, as a result of my own readings, I tried changing my dietary habits. This was NOT the first attempt, as I've struggled to maintain a reasonable weight since my teens. Literally, tried every diet plan out there, and tried to exercise more to no avail...

But, this time the changes worked...and it wasn't by some magical increase in will power nor exercise. Entirely due to a change in my blood sugar response by reducing carbohydrate intake drastically with an increase in protein consumption. Suddenly, like overnight, my food cravings disappeared and my weight started dropping. For some of us, the food guidelines are upside down. These days eat bread, potatoes, rice, and refined flour/sugar products very very rarely. No longer on the blood sugar roller coaster that drove my appetite to insane levels on a daily basis. Results? 60 pound weight loss, improved cholesterol, normal insulin response, and elimination of the pre-diabetic status. And still losing weight... :laugh

On the genetics side of things...I knew little about my extended family (parents divorced when I was 3) but learned eventually that males in my clan (yes, Scots heritage) rarely lived past 50 or so due to heart disease. Also discovered that two of my half brothers died even earlier, one at 29, the other at 38. During my medical journey it was discovered that my liver functions had changed, probably around 40 years of age, and more importantly the vessels supporting my heart are smaller than normal. Probably why I've never been very able to exercise very well? Upshot is that I survived nine heart surgeries in the nineties. And still here to complain about it! :whistle

So, based on my life experiences and intellectual curiousity I'm led to a conclusion that what we "know" about addictions has many gaps. Not entirely sure what the "truth" is, but still unwilling to condemn others, but willing to mourn the loss of another human being...

Best regards...to all
Click to expand...

Yes, one cannot escape their "poor" family history, but learning about it and making choices to nullify it, as best as possible, is a great story. Good for you...keep it going!
 
chewbacca said:
If you take a revolver with six cylinders and put in one bullet, is it an accident when the bullet takes out a big chunk of your head? What about two bullets??? Three, four, five.....? Is it only suicide if you put in six? Hemingway did not leave any room for doubt. At some point between the first injection (or whatever) and the last, he knew he was playing Russian Roulette. Maybe he thought he could beat the odds. Accident? Maybe he didn't care. Suicide?
Click to expand...

This comparison is between Russian Roulette and Suicide neither of which apply to Mr. Hoffman IMO. Russian Roulette is gambling. Suicide is typically the final act of a severely depressed and tormented individual. They often leave a note with reasons for such a drastic action. To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Hoffman did no such thing.

To say that he knew he was playing Russian Roulette is an assumption unsupported by any facts. There is strong evidence however to support the fact that Mr. Hoffman was a lifelong drug addict and despite many years of non dependance the disease of addiction stayed with him as it does with most addicts. We can argue back and forth forever about what leads to addiction. Genetics, upbringing, life experiences and yes, choices. But the fact remains addiction is a disease. It effects chemical changes in the brain that affect behaviour. Once this is understood and accepted it becomes easier to comprehend and less easy to condemn.
 
dieselyoda said:
I heard on the news today, CJOB in Winnipeg, that HSC, our big hospital is experimenting with Gamma Knife procedures to reduce or possibly eliminate addictive compulsions.

Make your own assumptions how Nuclear Surgery on the brain affects will power.
Click to expand...

I find it interesting that western medicine is always ready to throw expensive technology at problems and shut down simpler natural approaches to healing. Ban the tea and bring on the nukes. A local drug addiction researcher ran into this here in Vancouver recently using ayahuasca to help drug addicts. This treatment was actually seeing some success so the government shut it down. Short newspiece here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/b-c-doctor-ordered-to-stop-anti-addiction-tea-use-1.1107001

By the way DY, I've read a lot of your posts (and disagreed with a few... :p ) but this is going up on my fridge.

"There is no way, in my opinion, that any one person can gain enough experience to be able to pass judgement upon another."

You nailed it buddy.
 
Addiction may be a disease but it begins with a choice. That's the bottom line and the common denominator. There are no addicts who haven't made poor choices previously.
 
LDB said:
Addiction may be a disease but it begins with a choice. That's the bottom line and the common denominator. There are no addicts who haven't made poor choices previously.
Click to expand...

So I guess the fellas wounded in combat that are now in the surgical wards of military hospitals, addicted to pain meds, made a poor choice to defend your right to make judgements like you are rendering???????????.............God bless.......Dennis
 
DennisDarrow said:
So I guess the fellas wounded in combat that are now in the surgical wards of military hospitals, addicted to pain meds, made a poor choice to defend your right to make judgements like you are rendering???????????.............God bless.......Dennis
Click to expand...


Com'on I think you know he means different. I know that is not what I mean when I said something very similar.

That sort of 'addiction' we all could become victim of...and that's part of what was my point. My heart goes out to those who need for medical / injury reasons, then become addicted. Party druggies ?....I cannot find the same compassion for them.
 
71243 said:
Com'on I think you know he means different. .
Click to expand...

Ron........NO around this place I do NOT know what anyone thinks or means. So yes, I question all inclusive type statements. I really do appreciate those that truly understand NOT to make judgemental statements unless they have walked in the person's/subject's shoes. Anyway, that is all I am trying to point out. Don't point fingers if you don't KNOW what you are talking about.....And NO.......NO Ron, I am not pointing a finger or comment towards YOU......God bless.......Dennis
 
DennisDarrow said:
So I guess the fellas wounded in combat that are now in the surgical wards of military hospitals, addicted to pain meds, made a poor choice to defend your right to make judgements like you are rendering???????????.............God bless.......Dennis
Click to expand...

My mistake. I presumed enough common sense to know the difference. That would ensure an understanding of addiction by choice versus addiction by circumstances. I do believe most would see that though.
 
For one, I don't see much if anything that provides for a distinction in your statement about choice versus circumstance. Your statement seems unequivocal to this reader...

"addiction may be a disease but it begins with a choice" seems a clear indication of your view.
 
Motodan said:
Yes, one cannot escape their "poor" family history, but learning about it and making choices to nullify it, as best as possible, is a great story. Good for you...keep it going!
Click to expand...

Thanks for your good wishes! I just count myself as one of the lucky few. Very lucky! :dance
 
The difference between a hero serving his/her country, wounded and given medical narcotics, and someone who just chooses to begin using drugs should be pretty obvious I'd think. The heroes probably don't think I want to try drugs so I'm enlisting to see if I can get wounded and put on drugs.
 
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