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Thread: Cylinder honing

  1. #1
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    Question Cylinder honing

    Rebuilding 1977 R100S, changing piston rings. Is cylinder honing necessary?

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    I'm under the impression that new rings should be introduced to honed cylinders in order for them to develop their seal. I 'm planning on honing my nikasil cylinders this winter before installing new piston rings.

    Jim

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    How many miles on the bike or since last rebuild? How does the current cross-hatching look? I think in general, you should hone such that you can get the cross-hatching back into the cylinder walls...this promotes ring seating...without out, they might not seat.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 155396 View Post
    Rebuilding 1977 R100S, changing piston rings. Is cylinder honing necessary?
    Welcome to the forum! IMO, you've come too far to not do the whole job. As Kurt mentioned, how does the cross-hatching look? If it's good, I'd as least "break" the glaze.
    OM
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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocoinji View Post
    I'm under the impression that new rings should be introduced to honed cylinders in order for them to develop their seal. I 'm planning on honing my nikasil cylinders this winter before installing new piston rings.

    Jim
    Be sure and consider how you hone nikasil cylinders. They require a special hone, if required.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Kurt,

    Already did some research on that. I have't bought the hone yet but i will be buying a 240 grit Aluminum oxide ball hone for my nikasil cylinders. Thanks for looking out for me though.

    Jim

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    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    I would thoroughly wipe the Nikasil cylinders with laquer thinner, examine the existing cross hatch and call it good. Unless you have considerable experience it is easier to mess them up than improve them.

    Old iron cylinders - yes. Nikasil, I personally wouldn't do it. YMMV.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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    My nikasil cylinders are quite polished where the rings were riding. I can still see some cross hatch but i would say they are more polished than cross hatched. I talked to Ted Porter and he said they are supposed to be honed. Your point on comfort level and experience is well taken.

    Thanks,
    Jim

  9. #9
    Nutfarm
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    I worked on Porsches for 30 years. The later 911's came with nickasil or plated cylinders, other than a good clean up I would reuse them with new rings, never touched them with a hone.

    Sometimes on high mileage cars the plating would wear through at the top of the cylinder where the rings change direction. I've seen this happen on a few motorcycles with plated cylinders as well.

    On cast iron cylinders, if the bore is still reasonably straight, you can use a glaze breaker type of hone. But for plated cylinders I suggest you use alittle fine sandpaper, 600 grit, to remove the carbon above the top ring. Wash them in dish soap and hot water and reinstall.

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    I have to apologize for hijacking the OP thread. I will upload some pictures of my cylinders tonight. In the meantime i would like to hear form anyone who has honed nikasil cylinders.

    Thanks,
    Jim

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    Here is a couple pics of one of the cylinders. They are both similar. Top of the cylinder is in the foreground. You can see some cross hatch and where the oil ring stops at the bottom of the stroke. It looks pretty polished to me. Let me know what you think.

    Thanks,
    Jim
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
    Nutfarm
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    As I said, clean the carbon from the top of the cylinder and put them back on, they look fine.

    To hone plated cylinders you need a hone with diamond or carbide blades.

    I've made many cylinder liners from aluminum pipe and have had them plated by Bore Tech, and they finish hone them, they have the equipment to do the work. It's not common for machine shops to have hones for plated cylinders.

    I have a BSA powered dirt bike with one of my plated aluminum cylinder liners, it's had several sets of rings over the past 20 years, never had an issue with ring sealing.

  13. #13
    Rally Rat
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    Honeing cylinders

    I'm amazed at how many people out there have calibrated eyes! You can look at something and come to the conclusion that everything is just fine. The OP stated that the cylinders were on a 77 model so they must be iron lined.
    This also reminds me of a dealer I worked for who would run his fingers through the bore and declare that all that was needed was a quick hone with a "bottle brush" hone and a new set of rings. Calibrated fingers!
    The repair manual (BMW) provides us with the specs for the bore, taper and out of roundness. So if you have any questions then you might want to find someone who can actually measure these dimensions. Only after that, can you make a decision of what to do. Any real "mechanic" will tell you this. So if you want a half-as** job, take it to a half as** mechanic!
    Boxerbruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1074 View Post
    I'm amazed at how many people out there have calibrated eyes! You can look at something and come to the conclusion that everything is just fine. The OP stated that the cylinders were on a 77 model so they must be iron lined.
    This also reminds me of a dealer I worked for who would run his fingers through the bore and declare that all that was needed was a quick hone with a "bottle brush" hone and a new set of rings. Calibrated fingers!
    The repair manual (BMW) provides us with the specs for the bore, taper and out of roundness. So if you have any questions then you might want to find someone who can actually measure these dimensions. Only after that, can you make a decision of what to do. Any real "mechanic" will tell you this. So if you want a half-as** job, take it to a half as** mechanic!
    Based upon a bunch of criteria, I am sure there are different levels of work recommended by a "real mechanic."
    "The difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't change every time congress meets." - Will Rogers

  15. #15
    Prime Time BobZ's Avatar
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    Compared to my cylinders ('78 R100S), it looks like someone has already worked yours.
    Live Well, Do Good Work, Ride Safe.

    1978 R100S MOA #104733 ABC #7413
    1993 K1100LT KOG #997 CRBMWOA

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