I watched The Youtube Video of the NY Motorcycle Gang

PGlaves said:

True for some, but the vast majority I've run into were just in costume for the event. Haloween doesn't usually scare me and neither do circus clowns.

Click to expand...

Paul, I do agree as our society seems to have more "posers" than ever before, at least in my time. Having worked in a prison,taught juvy kids & later was a super of a juvy program I can "tell" much of the time about who's the bugger man. There are more of them amongst us than inside a facility. As more government agencies go broke that will change. Also, it's not about a scare for me but I'm pretty normal not a some kind of guy out to be a hero.
Sadly, the NYC MC thing will have that effect(fear of MC groups) on some of the public. I'm in the group (some have already commented) that there would have been a loud bang sound during such an experience but happily to say, it wasn't my family at that scene.

kantuckid said:

We were leaving FL(longish camp& fish thing) a few years back as some of ("some of" is important to note!) the Daytona MC crowd was filtering into FL. I can attest (I do know "one" when I see "one") that I saw lots of people on MC's that I don't want for a neighbor! Do they "work" for a living?

Click to expand...

Yes - they do work for a living. Selling drugs, firearms and burglary loot can be exhausting and take up a lot of hours.

Another officer and I spent 6 full days and nights at Bike Week in 2004 in Daytona. I'd like to report that "the vast majority were just there for fun and there were only a few bad apples in the crowds." Sadly, I cannot.

Part of the vastly complex problem is that society glorifies thugs, and thug-like attitudes. The pro & college sports athletes, the cage fighters, people in the entertainment business- these knuckleheads are the "heroes", the ones our children and their children look up to. Society has these people on a pedestal. In turn, some folks wind up thinking it's OK to emulate the thug persona- without, perhaps, fully understanding the ramifications. Without ever thinking they'll be called onto the carpet to take responsibility for any of their own actions.

Oops.


Sadly, more of these types of people aren't brought down to be held responsible for acting like thugs. I'm not anti LEO. The cops out there, especially in big cities, have a really tough gig, and I wouldn't fault them for dealing with stuff in ALMOST anyway they deem necessary. BUT I see our "justice" system as weak, misguided, stressed to the hilt, and out of focus. The prisons are overflowing with people doing mandatory time for things like drug "crimes"- while serial, or career criminals often walk with parole, probation, or suspended sentences. These are often the more violent criminals... yet the prisons are so full (BTW, we now have private companies making PROFIT off prisons) that the "real" criminals don't get the sentences that would seem to make sense for their crimes.

The ramifications of this and similar occurrences will reach far beyond the cities, tho, and could well affect each of us sooner or later- in things like random checkpoints, perhaps, or in the way society views US motorcyclists. Among all other tragic elements of this incident, this stands out as maybe the most unjust aspect, in my mind.

Squids in mass

Was in a situation some years back in York, PA area where traffic was high volumn conjestion and there was a large group of squids on crotch rockets. No regard for anyone else. They tried to control traffic in a similar manner to the incident in NY. Slowed down within two feet of my bumper so they could allow themselves lane control at near hiway speeds. Had wife and kids in the car. The one blocking turned around and signaled for me to back off in a single fingered gesture. These sorts of groups should be made to ride tricycles.

I would have done the same as the victim in the Range Rover. Crotch Rocket Riders were the guilty party.

Here we go....

Yesterday's news.
On this page there are at least a couple mentions of "bikers" running amok in NYC and the area....

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/7-bikers-arrested-reckless-driving-lie-report-article-1.1485155

D'ya think for one second, after all that's being made of the Henry Hudson PKWY thing, that guys would just chill for even one minute.

No, I guess not.

1cbpippin said:

Was in a situation some years back in York, PA area where traffic was high volumn conjestion and there was a large group of squids on crotch rockets. No regard for anyone else. They tried to control traffic in a similar manner to the incident in NY. Slowed down within two feet of my bumper so they could allow themselves lane control at near hiway speeds. Had wife and kids in the car. The one blocking turned around and signaled for me to back off in a single fingered gesture. These sorts of groups should be made to ride tricycles.

Click to expand...

I've seen the V-twin types block intersections and direct traffic (against signals) so their group/pack can stay as a single group. The latest example was a month ago at the intersection of PA45 and PA144 in Centre Co.

bmwrider88 said:

Yesterday's news.
On this page there are at least a couple mentions of "bikers" running amok in NYC and the area....

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/7-bikers-arrested-reckless-driving-lie-report-article-1.1485155

D'ya think for one second, after all that's being made of the Henry Hudson PKWY thing, that guys would just chill for even one minute.

No, I guess not.

Click to expand...

I can't say either way if these guys are guilty or not. I don't need another public official nanny harassing me just because I'm on a bike. Good luck in prosecuting all 7 guys . You can lay as many charges as you like, making them stick is another thing. As if there's not a car every 2 minutes on the highway up peoples asses and weaving in and out. 7 bikes passing and accelerating may look like mayhem but can be perfectly legal. Speeding ? Sure. Everyone is speeding on the highway. Give me a break.
I was on a BMW ride with 20 bikes. A cop car came the opposite way and turned around and pulled over an F800ST. The rider asked how the hell he picked him out of the bunch and how a radar can focus on one bike. The cop said "I pointed it at a blue bike" There were several blue bikes. I rest my case.

rockbottom said:

Yep--I've seen that same thing at the same place (and at 45 and 445). But I don't put it in the same category. While rude and annoying, it was augmenting safety rather than detracting from it.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is a different category due to the speed. However, in both cases, non-law enforcement actors assumed the role of traffic control for their own interest. I doubt if either is legit.....

I remember (was it last year?), some group of people on motorcycles had a "blocker" pull out to block an intersection for their group ride....
somebody came along in a big @$$ SUV, didn't see the blocker- and ran him over, killing him.

oops.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/06/11/4286383/bikers-clog-i-70-near-kauffman.html

Here's an article from Kansas City this past June... features a video of a large group of knucklehe- er, I mean motorcyclists being chased by police officers.
One officer was busy trying to pull over a truck which had a bunch of people in the back, filming the ride... Guy on bike wheelie-ing along behind the cop. The truck brakes, cop brakes, wheelie-boy crashes into cop car! Helmet-cam catches the whole thing.

Also, this just in:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/10/15/motorcyclists-to-pay-high-price-for-videotaped-joy-ride/

"A 29-year-old man on a BMW bike, (UH-OH )
and a 26-year-old man on a Yamaha bike, were nabbed by MRC des Collines-de-L'Outaouais police on Saturday afternoon.
As a result, the pair racked up 229 demerit points and $22,236 in fines for their Saturday afternoon antics."

Now that the excitement of the news has worn off the media has gone on to more dramatic news we hear next to nothing about the ongoing investigation. Wonder what's up lately.

I think there have been 8 arrests so far and at least 2 officers involved in the ride - conversation has been active on Ktmtalk - I'll add some article links later.

Nine. now. Expect more.

Another video released a couple days ago:http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9296980

36654 said:

Yes, it is a different category due to the speed. However, in both cases, non-law enforcement actors assumed the role of traffic control for their own interest. I doubt if either is legit.....

Click to expand...

It's not. At least not by "the letter of the law."

However, sometimes police departments 'sanction' such assistance in the interest of public safety. I have witnessed many intersection blockers used during my rides with the Chicago-area Ride For Kids benefit, with uniformed officers and civilian volunteers sharing necessary duties.

Anecdotally, another such accomodation occurs regularly in California, where lane-splitting is not legal - the CHP publicly admits it is merely tolerated if done safely. It's why the practice doesn't gain traction with other state legislatures - no legal foundation for it in the first place.

'Sanctioned' is police-speak for looking the other way when certain behavior appears to be of a public benefit. Sometimes such practices eventually become law - sometimes not.

Lane Sharing

http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

Please note the first line from the California Highway Patrols web site regarding lane sharing.

"Lane splitting in a safe and prudent manner is not illegal in the state of California."

drgnhtr said:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

Please note the first line from the California Highway Patrols web site regarding lane sharing.

"Lane splitting in a safe and prudent manner is not illegal in the state of California."

Click to expand...

Fortunately, and this goes for all law enforcement agencies, the opinions expressed on an LEO website do not supercede legislation, or the lack thereof.

greenwald said:

Fortunately, and this goes for all law enforcement agencies, the opinions expressed on an LEO website do not supercede legislation, or the lack thereof.

Click to expand...

Fortunately, and this goes for pretty much all of us, we are not under Napoleonic law. And California clearly states lane sharing is not illegal (and even tells you how to do it).

AntonLargiader said:

Fortunately, and this goes for pretty much all of us, we are not under Napoleonic law. And California clearly states lane sharing is not illegal (and even tells you how to do it).

Click to expand...

Research Excerpts:

When the 2005 bill to legalize lane splitting in Washington State was defeated, a Washington State Patrol spokesman testified in opposition, saying that, "it would be difficult to set and enforce standards for appropriate speeds and conditions for lane splitting. And he said that officials with the California Highway Patrol told him that they wished they had never begun allowing the practice: "The California Highway Patrol's official policy is that lane splitting is "permissible" but must be done in a safe and prudent manner."

California's DMV Handbook for motorcycles advises significant caution regarding lane splitting: "Cars and motorcycles each need a full lane to operate safely. Lane sharing is not safe. Riding between rows of stopped or moving cars in the same lane can leave you vulnerable. A car could turn suddenly or change lanes, a door could open, or a hand could come out of a window. Discourage lane sharing by others."



While injury and/or property damage caused by a lane-splitter might slide past a local judge who cites the "everybody's doing it" rationale, civil liability would never escape the scrutiny of an Appellate Court.

It's currently a gray area of something that has not been declared illegal by statute, but has neither been sanctioned by case law. Future CA court decisions will define the survivability of this 'practice.' But it's a misnomer to declare it 'legal in California.'

Ride Safe and Aware.

Generally speaking, in the United States when something is not defined to be illegal by statute, ordinance, or regulation it is considered legal. Writing a ticket which cites a statute or code section is a bit difficult when there is no such provision to cite.

Since California has no statute, ordinance, or regulation which prohibits lane sharing it is legal. However, California does have other provisions in the Motor Vehicle Code such as careless driving and driving too fast for conditions which are used to try to keep speed differentials down.

With the widespread use of dash-cam video recordings these ought to be slam-dunk cases when an officer cites a motorcyclist for lane sharing in a careless manner.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...clist-arrested-beating-cops-article-1.1492716

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/detective-face-additional-charges-biker-attack-article-1.1480552

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/motorcycle-madness-article-1.1475795