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2012 R1200GS "Burnt Oil Smell"
- Thread starter jgp1854
- Start date
akbeemer
SURVIVOR
Gee, why so snarky?
mb289
New member
I'm going to throw this out even though I can't explain it. I have a '12 GSA and also had the burnt oil smell. I went over the bike with a magnifying glass and found no leaks. Also, this is my second GS and I know how to check/fill the oil. What I found was that my throttle body sync was way off (found this during routine maintenance). After the sync, I had no more burnt oil smell. A few months later, I had some warranty work done and once again had the burnt oil smell. After a throttle body sync the burnt oil smell went away. It's possible the smell was due to the GSA being new and the TB sync was a coincidence, but mine no longer smells. My GSA now has 22k miles and the sync is usually spot on.
Dave
Dave
Dave,
thanks for your input. I recently had my 6k miles service done by a BMW dealer and I presume the TB's were checked? The GS ran fine before and after. When your odor was present and found your TB's being out of sync, how did it run?
I checked with two other BMW dealers, (MAX's & BMW of Southeast Michigan) by way of a telephone conversation with the service managers, MAX's suggested the cam tensioners bolt likely the culprit, however I zero evidence of any oil weeping or misting in the area of the cam tensioners bolt. The service manager SE Michigan, after I explained in detail what I did to find the source of the odor, stated, I did what they would have done, go over the bike and look for the source.
Several inputs from this forum point to things like the balance shaft seal, or the out put shaft seal. None of the dealers I spoke with suggested the seals???? So for the time being I continue to ride, and cautiously plug my nose!
73516
akbeemer
SURVIVOR
Has anyone checked the airbox behind the air filter? Sometimes a small puddle of oil can form there as a result of overfilling the engine oil. The oil then can find its way out of the box and look as if a seal is leaking. Perhaps the oil in the box can get into the airstream in an amount that could cause the odor. When I service my R12R I check for oil in the airbox by attaching a shop towel to a large set of forceps. Just make sure all that goes in comes out.
I'm too lazy to walk out to the shop and check, but I think the TBs are synch'd at a 12,000 mile interval. If that is correct, then all it would take is for a mechanic to skip one synch and you've gone 24k without one. My R has near 40k miles and I check every 6k and the TBs have always been spot on.
I'm too lazy to walk out to the shop and check, but I think the TBs are synch'd at a 12,000 mile interval. If that is correct, then all it would take is for a mechanic to skip one synch and you've gone 24k without one. My R has near 40k miles and I check every 6k and the TBs have always been spot on.
Kevin
thanks for the suggestion. I did remove the air filter and took a casual look inside and things seems normal, however, I will do as you suggestion this pm and examine "inside" the tunnel for any signs of oil.
73516
mb289
New member
75316 - I do not know if the TBs were synced after the warranty work, but I assume they were since I lost an exhaust valve and the LH head had to be removed. Either way, when I checked I found the sync off...about 10" difference on my manometer using ATF. After syncing no more smell. The bike ran noticeably smoother, also. Again, if this was the reason, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but it is the only thing I changed and the smell went away.
BTW, I did have a little oil on the bottom of the air box that I assumed was from the initial oil fill during the new bike prep. Normally when I change oil/filter, I only fill to about 3/4 up the sight glass or about 3.75 quarts.
BTW, I did have a little oil on the bottom of the air box that I assumed was from the initial oil fill during the new bike prep. Normally when I change oil/filter, I only fill to about 3/4 up the sight glass or about 3.75 quarts.
ponch1
Ponch
Because the response I got was snarky and condescending.
pglaves
#13338
Thank you.
ponch1
Ponch
You're welcome sir.
pglaves
#13338
Since the problem is not yet resolved I want to go back to basics for a moment. Oil that seeps or leaks out of an engine seldom smells like "burned" oil unless one of two things happens:
1. It gets on something very hot like the exhaust header, catalytic converter, or muffler.
or
2. Is getting into the combustion chamber and being smelled in the exhaust.
We have nominations for leaking seals and for oil in the airbox. One would eventually appear external to the engine while the other could first appear in the combustion chamber and exhaust.
I think the next step in the process is to try to determine whether the smell is oil on hot engine parts or oil being burned in the combustion chamber.
My tried and true method for finding oil leaks is to use white antiperspirant spray powder or spray-type baby powder. I spray it on thoroughly cleaned parts where an external leak is suspect. The white powder sticks to the parts and engine oil will quickly produce a brown stain. If it is a slight leak or seep the stain spreads out from the point of origin, leaving a little arrow shaped brown spot pointing at the source of the oil.
1. It gets on something very hot like the exhaust header, catalytic converter, or muffler.
or
2. Is getting into the combustion chamber and being smelled in the exhaust.
We have nominations for leaking seals and for oil in the airbox. One would eventually appear external to the engine while the other could first appear in the combustion chamber and exhaust.
I think the next step in the process is to try to determine whether the smell is oil on hot engine parts or oil being burned in the combustion chamber.
My tried and true method for finding oil leaks is to use white antiperspirant spray powder or spray-type baby powder. I spray it on thoroughly cleaned parts where an external leak is suspect. The white powder sticks to the parts and engine oil will quickly produce a brown stain. If it is a slight leak or seep the stain spreads out from the point of origin, leaving a little arrow shaped brown spot pointing at the source of the oil.
BMW Triumphant
Ed Kilner #176066
Now that is a good tip, thanks.
It would be perfect except for the "thoroughly cleaned" part. I would have passed that right by, except I just happened to be looking under my bike earlier today...
Well, it's a bit cleaner on one side ... The other is a bit inaccessible until the baseboard is installed and the Las Vegas, Carmel, SF vacation is over.
I used a paper towel spot sprayed with WD-40 to clean the bottom of the sump area. What would you have used?
pglaves
#13338
What I use as a cleaner depends a bit on what I am cleaning. I always used to use Gumout brand carb cleaner but it can soften and dull the painted engine parts. I still use it sometimes but avoid powder coated parts. CRC Brake cleaner is pretty benign to parts and leaves no residue. WD40 is a good solvent and I do sometimes use it but it is less effective at cutting through grime than the other choices. Plain old soap and water works pretty well too.
Paul,
Thanks again for all your expertise. After removing 6 oz. of engine oil the odor continues. I went over the exhaust front to back again finding no signs whatsoever of oil burning off the exhaust parts. I also went over the engine and find nothing indicating a weep/leak. I will take the steps you suggest using baby powder to help find a source.
You note in #2: (oil) Is getting into the combustion chamber and being smelled in the exhaust. This may be a silly question, how does this happen? Or can you explain how this happens?
thanks again
73516
pglaves
#13338
Well, suspect #1 is the possibility of oil in the air box. That oil can be picked up by the intake air passing through the air box, through the throttle bodies to the combustion chamber. BMW equipped many air boxes with a drain plug at the bottom of the air box specifically due to this possibility.
You can loosen the clamps on the air tubes and slide them into the air box. Then take a clean cloth and rub it on the inside of the air tubes. Ditto on the air bores of the throttle bodies. Any oiliness would tell me there is oil in the air box being picked up by the intake air stream.
Beyond that we enter the realm of engine mechanical condition. The two prime spots for oil in the combustion chamber is past intake valve stems, or past rings.
I'd check the air box air stream first. Then a compression test and leakdown test could be in order.
The issues are not toally isolated. Oil in the air box accumulates from the crankcase vent. This is exaserbated when there is excessive blowby past the rings, but oil can condense in the airbox just from normal crankcase venting, and it can build up over time.
Also the amount of oil that might collect in the airbox is related to excessive oil in the crankcase air - if the engine oil level is too high.
Paul,
I just went out and removed the painted plastic parts to gain access to the air "snorkel" tube, and air filter, which were removed. I examined both tubes for any obvious signs of oil using a paper towel attached to forceps and found nothing. Would one expect to see oil dampness on the paper towel or would it be more of a filming?
The bike just turned 7.5K miles and runs outstanding????
thanks
73516
pglaves
#13338
Since you have the plastic off I'd go one step further. Loosen the air tubes (black plastic) between the air box and the rear side of the throttle bodies. There is a clamp at the air box end and at the TB end. Wiggle-wiggle them rearward a bit and check the inside surfaces.
If these are essentially dry I would ride the thing until some obvious source of the odor becomes apparent.
It is entirely possible that what you smell is in fact in the exhaust from the combustion chamber. At that low mileage the bike is not fully broken in and some oiling past the rings is more likely than not.
If these are essentially dry I would ride the thing until some obvious source of the odor becomes apparent.
It is entirely possible that what you smell is in fact in the exhaust from the combustion chamber. At that low mileage the bike is not fully broken in and some oiling past the rings is more likely than not.
deilenberger
A bozo on the bus
Paul,
It's not as easy to remove the intake tubes on the hexhead/camhead engines as on oilhead engines. Instead of screw clamps BMW used a type of reusable CV joint clamp that requires a special tool to remove and replace it. I found one of the tools on Amazon for about $15 or so.. it's made by Lisle (same one the BMW dealer had actually.)
The rubber tubes - unlike the oilhead tubes - do not extend into the airbox, there is a tube cast into the airbox that it connects to.
It is quite possible he has some oil in the airbox. Unlike earlier bikes, there is no oil drain in the airbox. I suspect BMW thought the crankcase vent would suffice for that purpose.. it comes off the left (port) forward corner of the airbox and goes straight down to the left side cylinder head. But - I have seen oil buildup in the airbox if the engine is overfilled. The bottom of these airboxes is molded to closely match the contours of the transmission.. meaning there are hills and valleys in the bottom. The valleys can fill with oil which won't drain back unless you lay the bike on it's side. I had what appeared to be a transmission output seal leak on my bike - that ended up being oil seeping out of the airbox and running back along the top of the transmission, dripping eventually down on the forward edge of the front swingarm boot. Sopping up the oil with a rag on a stick through the air-filter opening "cured" the leak.
It's possible his is leaking/seeping at some other airbox joint that isn't really visible and eventually ending up down on the exhaust. I'd suggest that he find someone with a borescope and take a good look at the inside/bottom of the airbox. That's how I found the oil in mine (Harbor Freight borescope works just great for this sort of thing.. bought it for the Porsche, used it for lots of other things now.. was on sale for $89.)
It's not as easy to remove the intake tubes on the hexhead/camhead engines as on oilhead engines. Instead of screw clamps BMW used a type of reusable CV joint clamp that requires a special tool to remove and replace it. I found one of the tools on Amazon for about $15 or so.. it's made by Lisle (same one the BMW dealer had actually.)
The rubber tubes - unlike the oilhead tubes - do not extend into the airbox, there is a tube cast into the airbox that it connects to.
It is quite possible he has some oil in the airbox. Unlike earlier bikes, there is no oil drain in the airbox. I suspect BMW thought the crankcase vent would suffice for that purpose.. it comes off the left (port) forward corner of the airbox and goes straight down to the left side cylinder head. But - I have seen oil buildup in the airbox if the engine is overfilled. The bottom of these airboxes is molded to closely match the contours of the transmission.. meaning there are hills and valleys in the bottom. The valleys can fill with oil which won't drain back unless you lay the bike on it's side. I had what appeared to be a transmission output seal leak on my bike - that ended up being oil seeping out of the airbox and running back along the top of the transmission, dripping eventually down on the forward edge of the front swingarm boot. Sopping up the oil with a rag on a stick through the air-filter opening "cured" the leak.
It's possible his is leaking/seeping at some other airbox joint that isn't really visible and eventually ending up down on the exhaust. I'd suggest that he find someone with a borescope and take a good look at the inside/bottom of the airbox. That's how I found the oil in mine (Harbor Freight borescope works just great for this sort of thing.. bought it for the Porsche, used it for lots of other things now.. was on sale for $89.)
