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Thread: 2012 R1200GS "Burnt Oil Smell"

  1. #31
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    Yeah, I am familiar with his sainthood, he's the veritable pope of BMW.
    Thank you.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  2. #32
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Thank you.
    You're welcome sir.
    My Motorrad
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  3. #33
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Since the problem is not yet resolved I want to go back to basics for a moment. Oil that seeps or leaks out of an engine seldom smells like "burned" oil unless one of two things happens:

    1. It gets on something very hot like the exhaust header, catalytic converter, or muffler.

    or

    2. Is getting into the combustion chamber and being smelled in the exhaust.

    We have nominations for leaking seals and for oil in the airbox. One would eventually appear external to the engine while the other could first appear in the combustion chamber and exhaust.

    I think the next step in the process is to try to determine whether the smell is oil on hot engine parts or oil being burned in the combustion chamber.

    My tried and true method for finding oil leaks is to use white antiperspirant spray powder or spray-type baby powder. I spray it on thoroughly cleaned parts where an external leak is suspect. The white powder sticks to the parts and engine oil will quickly produce a brown stain. If it is a slight leak or seep the stain spreads out from the point of origin, leaving a little arrow shaped brown spot pointing at the source of the oil.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  4. #34
    Ed Kilner #176066
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post

    My tried and true method for finding oil leaks is to use white antiperspirant spray powder or spray-type baby powder. I spray it on thoroughly cleaned parts where an external leak is suspect. The white powder sticks to the parts and engine oil will quickly produce a brown stain. If it is a slight leak or seep the stain spreads out from the point of origin, leaving a little arrow shaped brown spot pointing at the source of the oil.
    Now that is a good tip, thanks.

    It would be perfect except for the "thoroughly cleaned" part. I would have passed that right by, except I just happened to be looking under my bike earlier today...

    Well, it's a bit cleaner on one side ... The other is a bit inaccessible until the baseboard is installed and the Las Vegas, Carmel, SF vacation is over.

    I used a paper towel spot sprayed with WD-40 to clean the bottom of the sump area. What would you have used?
    Ed
    2011 R1200RT Thunder Gray Metallic; 2000 Triumph 900(sold)
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  5. #35
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Triumphant View Post

    I used a paper towel spot sprayed with WD-40 to clean the bottom of the sump area. What would you have used?
    What I use as a cleaner depends a bit on what I am cleaning. I always used to use Gumout brand carb cleaner but it can soften and dull the painted engine parts. I still use it sometimes but avoid powder coated parts. CRC Brake cleaner is pretty benign to parts and leaves no residue. WD40 is a good solvent and I do sometimes use it but it is less effective at cutting through grime than the other choices. Plain old soap and water works pretty well too.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Since the problem is not yet resolved I want to go back to basics for a moment. Oil that seeps or leaks out of an engine seldom smells like "burned" oil unless one of two things happens:

    1. It gets on something very hot like the exhaust header, catalytic converter, or muffler.

    or

    2. Is getting into the combustion chamber and being smelled in the exhaust.

    We have nominations for leaking seals and for oil in the airbox. One would eventually appear external to the engine while the other could first appear in the combustion chamber and exhaust.

    I think the next step in the process is to try to determine whether the smell is oil on hot engine parts or oil being burned in the combustion chamber.

    My tried and true method for finding oil leaks is to use white antiperspirant spray powder or spray-type baby powder. I spray it on thoroughly cleaned parts where an external leak is suspect. The white powder sticks to the parts and engine oil will quickly produce a brown stain. If it is a slight leak or seep the stain spreads out from the point of origin, leaving a little arrow shaped brown spot pointing at the source of the oil.
    Paul,
    Thanks again for all your expertise. After removing 6 oz. of engine oil the odor continues. I went over the exhaust front to back again finding no signs whatsoever of oil burning off the exhaust parts. I also went over the engine and find nothing indicating a weep/leak. I will take the steps you suggest using baby powder to help find a source.

    You note in #2: (oil) Is getting into the combustion chamber and being smelled in the exhaust. This may be a silly question, how does this happen? Or can you explain how this happens?

    thanks again

    73516

  7. #37
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 73516 View Post

    You note in #2: (oil) Is getting into the combustion chamber and being smelled in the exhaust. This may be a silly question, how does this happen? Or can you explain how this happens?

    thanks again

    73516
    Well, suspect #1 is the possibility of oil in the air box. That oil can be picked up by the intake air passing through the air box, through the throttle bodies to the combustion chamber. BMW equipped many air boxes with a drain plug at the bottom of the air box specifically due to this possibility.

    You can loosen the clamps on the air tubes and slide them into the air box. Then take a clean cloth and rub it on the inside of the air tubes. Ditto on the air bores of the throttle bodies. Any oiliness would tell me there is oil in the air box being picked up by the intake air stream.

    Beyond that we enter the realm of engine mechanical condition. The two prime spots for oil in the combustion chamber is past intake valve stems, or past rings.

    I'd check the air box air stream first. Then a compression test and leakdown test could be in order.

    The issues are not toally isolated. Oil in the air box accumulates from the crankcase vent. This is exaserbated when there is excessive blowby past the rings, but oil can condense in the airbox just from normal crankcase venting, and it can build up over time.

    Also the amount of oil that might collect in the airbox is related to excessive oil in the crankcase air - if the engine oil level is too high.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Well, suspect #1 is the possibility of oil in the air box. That oil can be picked up by the intake air passing through the air box, through the throttle bodies to the combustion chamber. BMW equipped many air boxes with a drain plug at the bottom of the air box specifically due to this possibility.

    You can loosen the clamps on the air tubes and slide them into the air box. Then take a clean cloth and rub it on the inside of the air tubes. Ditto on the air bores of the throttle bodies. Any oiliness would tell me there is oil in the air box being picked up by the intake air stream.

    Beyond that we enter the realm of engine mechanical condition. The two prime spots for oil in the combustion chamber is past intake valve stems, or past rings.

    I'd check the air box air stream first. Then a compression test and leakdown test could be in order.

    The issues are not toally isolated. Oil in the air box accumulates from the crankcase vent. This is exaserbated when there is excessive blowby past the rings, but oil can condense in the airbox just from normal crankcase venting, and it can build up over time.

    Also the amount of oil that might collect in the airbox is related to excessive oil in the crankcase air - if the engine oil level is too high.
    Paul,

    I just went out and removed the painted plastic parts to gain access to the air "snorkel" tube, and air filter, which were removed. I examined both tubes for any obvious signs of oil using a paper towel attached to forceps and found nothing. Would one expect to see oil dampness on the paper towel or would it be more of a filming?

    The bike just turned 7.5K miles and runs outstanding????

    thanks

    73516

  9. #39
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Since you have the plastic off I'd go one step further. Loosen the air tubes (black plastic) between the air box and the rear side of the throttle bodies. There is a clamp at the air box end and at the TB end. Wiggle-wiggle them rearward a bit and check the inside surfaces.

    If these are essentially dry I would ride the thing until some obvious source of the odor becomes apparent.

    It is entirely possible that what you smell is in fact in the exhaust from the combustion chamber. At that low mileage the bike is not fully broken in and some oiling past the rings is more likely than not.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  10. #40
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Paul,

    It's not as easy to remove the intake tubes on the hexhead/camhead engines as on oilhead engines. Instead of screw clamps BMW used a type of reusable CV joint clamp that requires a special tool to remove and replace it. I found one of the tools on Amazon for about $15 or so.. it's made by Lisle (same one the BMW dealer had actually.)

    The rubber tubes - unlike the oilhead tubes - do not extend into the airbox, there is a tube cast into the airbox that it connects to.

    It is quite possible he has some oil in the airbox. Unlike earlier bikes, there is no oil drain in the airbox. I suspect BMW thought the crankcase vent would suffice for that purpose.. it comes off the left (port) forward corner of the airbox and goes straight down to the left side cylinder head. But - I have seen oil buildup in the airbox if the engine is overfilled. The bottom of these airboxes is molded to closely match the contours of the transmission.. meaning there are hills and valleys in the bottom. The valleys can fill with oil which won't drain back unless you lay the bike on it's side. I had what appeared to be a transmission output seal leak on my bike - that ended up being oil seeping out of the airbox and running back along the top of the transmission, dripping eventually down on the forward edge of the front swingarm boot. Sopping up the oil with a rag on a stick through the air-filter opening "cured" the leak.

    It's possible his is leaking/seeping at some other airbox joint that isn't really visible and eventually ending up down on the exhaust. I'd suggest that he find someone with a borescope and take a good look at the inside/bottom of the airbox. That's how I found the oil in mine (Harbor Freight borescope works just great for this sort of thing.. bought it for the Porsche, used it for lots of other things now.. was on sale for $89.)
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders New Sweden BMW Riders
    '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers.. and a Porsche

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    Paul,

    It's not as easy to remove the intake tubes on the hexhead/camhead engines as on oilhead engines. Instead of screw clamps BMW used a type of reusable CV joint clamp that requires a special tool to remove and replace it. I found one of the tools on Amazon for about $15 or so.. it's made by Lisle (same one the BMW dealer had actually.)

    The rubber tubes - unlike the oilhead tubes - do not extend into the airbox, there is a tube cast into the airbox that it connects to.

    It is quite possible he has some oil in the airbox. Unlike earlier bikes, there is no oil drain in the airbox. I suspect BMW thought the crankcase vent would suffice for that purpose.. it comes off the left (port) forward corner of the airbox and goes straight down to the left side cylinder head. But - I have seen oil buildup in the airbox if the engine is overfilled. The bottom of these airboxes is molded to closely match the contours of the transmission.. meaning there are hills and valleys in the bottom. The valleys can fill with oil which won't drain back unless you lay the bike on it's side. I had what appeared to be a transmission output seal leak on my bike - that ended up being oil seeping out of the airbox and running back along the top of the transmission, dripping eventually down on the forward edge of the front swingarm boot. Sopping up the oil with a rag on a stick through the air-filter opening "cured" the leak.

    It's possible his is leaking/seeping at some other airbox joint that isn't really visible and eventually ending up down on the exhaust. I'd suggest that he find someone with a borescope and take a good look at the inside/bottom of the airbox. That's how I found the oil in mine (Harbor Freight borescope works just great for this sort of thing.. bought it for the Porsche, used it for lots of other things now.. was on sale for $89.)
    Don,

    thanks for the input. I'll locate a borescope and follow up on your suggestion.

    73516

  12. #42
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    Update on "burned oil smell"

    9,5k miles, still no oil consumption to speak off, the GS runs great.

    Alas, finally obvious signs of oil, located on the right side, on the black plastic breather box, where the upper and lower plastic pieces come together. Not a lot but sufficient to reflect spotting on other areas to the rear.

    Returned the GS to the dealer, they took the snorkels off from the plastic breather and cleaned the inside as best they could, finding engine oil! They suggested an oil change going back to 20/50 dino oil that was originally used. Indicating the thicker oil would aid in getting the rings to seat???? Earlier they suggested going to 10/50 semi synthetic, which was BMW new recommendation. The new semi synthetic oil was used at the 3k oil change, and again at 6k. The service manager stated, it was not unusual for BMW motors taking upwards to 18k miles to get the rings to seat????

    After the oil and filter changed at the dealer and driving home some 75 miles home, I detected engine oil coming from the two plastic air box pieces.

    Your thoughts please on:

    Why the engine oil is flowing into breather box (note: oil level has been and is currently at 1/2 to 2/3 up the sight glass, it is not and has not been over filled)

    What is causing the engine oil to bypass into the breather box

    Does it really take upwards to 18k mikes to seat the rings, trust me when I say, I use the full range of rpm's.

    Serious input is most welcome.

    Thanks

    73516

  13. #43
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    This may sound stupid, but I will throw it out there.

    I try to be very careful when I drain my trans oil. Many times some oil seems to find it's way onto the center stand springs anyway. I try wiping most of it off, but in the past I have experienced the burn oil smell and it turned out it was a bit of oil seeping out of one of the springs and onto the exhaust. May be a longshot, but thought I would put it out there.

  14. #44
    P Monk
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    30k on my Gs and last oil change is the first time I noticed oil smell:

    May just be a coincedence but last time I went to dealer for 15w50 BMW oil when I got ready to change I discovered it was actually semi synthetic Castrol not synthetic Spectro oil in that BMW bottle. Since I changed oil I have noticed a slight odor I never had before. I am switching to Mobil1 20w50 full synthetic and will make close examination to see if there is a seep anywhere. If there is it is not obvious.
    P. Monk
    74 R90/6 (also know by bride as the Black Hole). 09 R1200 GS. My wife, 1953 model who has survived aplastic anemia and a bone marrow transplant.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpmonk View Post
    May just be a coincedence but last time I went to dealer for 15w50 BMW oil when I got ready to change I discovered it was actually semi synthetic Castrol not synthetic Spectro oil in that BMW bottle. Since I changed oil I have noticed a slight odor I never had before. I am switching to Mobil1 20w50 full synthetic and will make close examination to see if there is a seep anywhere. If there is it is not obvious.

    Mine appeared right after the dealer switched the weight of oil. With the oil weeping out of the mating surfaces of the breather box on the right side, not sure why. The dealer called me and advised they are ordering a new air breather box system. I still don't why the oil is ending up in the breather box, I hope it was something simple like the dealer over filled the engine oil prior to my ownership, and the pooling of oil in air box just worked it ways out of the upper/lower seam in the air box. With a new air box being ordered, installed, and oil free, maybe my problem will go away, I hope.

    I'll keep my findings posted.

    73516

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