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dealer woes

AKBeemer has it right: resolving disputes is best, even though hard. I'm faced with a strong lack of trust in mine, so I'll take extra effort to make sure we communicate clearly.
or; I'll just have to travel so much that all my service is done on the road - as one of those travelers that most dealers tend to try hard to accommodate! ;-) Which raises the issue of familiarity leading to, if not contempt, then taking the patronage of local, loyal customers for granted.

With 5 dealers in the state, that leaves three others. Colorado Springs, Fort Collins and Grand Junction. I am sure you would do better at one of them.
 
Some dealers are unquestionably bad, but it's useful to remember that life's a self-fulfilling prophecy, i.e. if you expect them to treat you badly, they will.

Service managers/dealers lying to people isn't a self-fulfilling prophesy, but lying and a bad business practice. It sounds like you would rather somehow justify bad behavior through some interesting interpretation of karma. As someone that has worked in auto repair, I can tell you that some are snakes that screw people and they didn't deserve it.
 
It sounds like you would rather somehow justify bad behavior through some interesting interpretation of karma.

I think lkchris means exactly what he said - "Some dealers are unquestionably bad....".

I would submit that some customers are unquestionably badder. i.e. Walk in with a crap attitude and a belief than you're about to get ripped off and you will walk out thinking that you did. :D
 
I think lkchris means exactly what he said - "Some dealers are unquestionably bad....".

I would submit that some customers are unquestionably badder. i.e. Walk in with a crap attitude and a belief than you're about to get ripped off and you will walk out thinking that you did. :D

That may be true, but it doesn't excuse bad behavior. "Self-Fulfilling" behavior can be on any side. Lots of times the customers are looked at a certain negative way and it's used as an excuse to screw them. Ultimately, the fish stinks from the head. Employees that do bad things reflect a bad management. Customers may or may not think they are getting screwed, but I would ask, where would this attitude come from? Probably from a bad experience. This shouldn't mean all dealers or shops operate the same way, but with some it does. transparency and operating a dealership or shop with integrity should go a long way in preventing this.

There used to be a TV commercial where they said an educated consumer is the best customer. Along these lines I would say informed as well. Dealers and shops that prey on customers do so out of the customers ignorance and trust.
 
I think lkchris means exactly what he said - "Some dealers are unquestionably bad....".

I would submit that some customers are unquestionably badder. i.e. Walk in with a crap attitude and a belief than you're about to get ripped off and you will walk out thinking that you did. :D

Depends on your definition of "ripped off" . Is being charged $ 135.00 to hook up a diagnostic tool and read it for 10 minutes a rip off ? Yup. Is charging $60 to install and balance a motorcycle tire a rip off ? Yup. Lets not mince words here, BMW dealers way overcharge for what they do. I try to do everything myself and have an independent do the rest. How long does it take most of us to make $ 135, after taxes ? What makes them deserve that for reading a MOSS-PC computer for 10 minutes ? I can only vouch for my stealer, this may or may not apply to all.
 
Lets not mince words here, BMW dealers way overcharge for what they do.

OK, enough of the word mincing. :banghead

Can someone please explain to me why, after about 35 years of taking my motorcycles to a variety of different dealers (European and Japanese) I have yet to have an unresolved dispute? Am I just lucky?

And Ponch, a client with a crap attitude can march right back out the same door they came in. In my business I've instructed staff to NOT deal with certain clients due to the behaviour of those clients. My car dealer now does a walk around of my car when I bring it in for service. Why? Because some customers have tried to blame them for scratches and dents which were there before they brought the car in. Nice.

This will be my last comment on the subject.
 
OK, enough of the word mincing. :banghead

Can someone please explain to me why, after about 35 years of taking my motorcycles to a variety of different dealers (European and Japanese) I have yet to have an unresolved dispute? Am I just lucky?

And Ponch, a client with a crap attitude can march right back out the same door they came in. In my business I've instructed staff to NOT deal with certain clients due to the behaviour of those clients. My car dealer now does a walk around of my car when I bring it in for service. Why? Because some customers have tried to blame them for scratches and dents which were there before they brought the car in. Nice.

This will be my last comment on the subject.

Some people feel they are entitled. May be they should get together with the thieves and liars and write a book.

What you said demonstrated transparency. I have no issue with an inspection of the car or bike. Take video if it helps. This is a good thing. Everything is up front. Where things get screwed up is when things are left to a blank page where either side can fill in the blanks. Carte Blanche is a bad way for anyone to do business. Expectations have to be managed and a definition of what work will be done, possibly what will not be done and how much it will cost needs to be made clear before any transaction and in writing. Too many times I have seen either side get creative when expectations aren't defined. As long as everything is above board, clear and transparent, there would be much wiggle room for thieves, liars or the entitlement class.
 
I just had a problem with who I assume is that same dealer in Denver. All I wanted was an oil change, and the valves checked as I was at 6k and 2,000 miles from home. These are things I try to do myself. Next thing I know, they want to change the break fluid, tranny fluid, the whole nine yards. The bike was a month old and I just didn't have anything do with with the used oil, so I figured it was easier for them to do it. I got such a hard time about not having the full service. I told them they didn't need to charge me for new valve cover gaskets, nor the screws that hold the valve covers on. I got the red ass and told it was going on my permanent record. At my shop, when you have the clearances checked, you get a write up about the specs and which were replaced. I got nothing but an attitude and "I guess they didn't change them then". Too bad, it's a nice shop outside of that one guy behind the counter.
 
I just had a problem with who I assume is that same dealer in Denver. All I wanted was an oil change, and the valves checked as I was at 6k and 2,000 miles from home. These are things I try to do myself. Next thing I know, they want to change the break fluid, tranny fluid, the whole nine yards. The bike was a month old and I just didn't have anything do with with the used oil, so I figured it was easier for them to do it. I got such a hard time about not having the full service. I told them they didn't need to charge me for new valve cover gaskets, nor the screws that hold the valve covers on. I got the red ass and told it was going on my permanent record. At my shop, when you have the clearances checked, you get a write up about the specs and which were replaced. I got nothing but an attitude and "I guess they didn't change them then". Too bad, it's a nice shop outside of that one guy behind the counter.

I wonder if the guy got fired. Seems BMW of Denver is looking for a service manager: http://www.bmwofdenver.com/staff2.asp . Unless of course you guys are talking about Foothills BMW. I have heard good things about Grand Junction BMW.
 

If I had the resources, I would have done that with a 2010 BMW X5 diesel I bought. What a P.O.S that was. 15 times to the dealer in a few months and probably 20K in parts and labour . There response was "don't worry, it's still under warranty" Bye bye X5. I later find out the X5 has one of the poorest reliability track records of any vehicle out there and is one of the costliest SUV's to maintain outside the warranty period. I was ready to get an exorcist to service the vehicle. I can sure pick them. ;-)
 
If I had the resources, I would have done that with a 2010 BMW X5 diesel I bought. What a P.O.S that was. 15 times to the dealer in a few months and probably 20K in parts and labour . There response was "don't worry, it's still under warranty" Bye bye X5. I later find out the X5 has one of the poorest reliability track records of any vehicle out there and is one of the costliest SUV's to maintain outside the warranty period. I was ready to get an exorcist to service the vehicle. I can sure pick them. ;-)

They don't have lemon laws where you live?
 
They don't have lemon laws where you live?

Nope. Canada. You can take on a lawyer, but from my experience with lawyers you just bend over a second time and take it even worse from them. Life is too short to be suing large corporations. I will never buy another BMW car and I suggest that to anyone else who wants to hear my story. If you insist on buying their cars, buy one with as few bells and whistles as possible. Trust me on that one. They charge huge amounts for their options bundles and you are just asking for trouble.

My GSA has been really good until recently. I have a suspicion one of the stick coils is gone. At least I know it ran good at one time and for three years .LOL
 
There are good dealers, and there are certainly bad ones who place making as much money off of each customer well ahead of good business practices and customer service. Some car dealers are no different.

Lets face it, BMW Corporate is greedy, period, and believe (or won't admit) they can do no wrong. That sense is infused into their Dealers and although each is franchised and individually owned, the corporate training and mindset is evident in most. Kind of like your average Liberal. You can show BMW Corporate a handful of stripped clutch hubs but they will look you straight in the face and tell you that they do not have any engineering deficiencies or performance issues on any of there models. In the same sense, Al Gore could experience a 7 month Colorado winter and still profess global warming. I've seen the responses from BMW Corporate on the clutch hub complaints and 'there is no problem' is always their answer.

I've used, and highly respect my local dealer here in Ft Collins, Colorado Euro. The same owner also owns Foothills BMW in Denver. They did a complete rebuild of my final drive and charged $550. I think that was somewhat reasonable. They didn't try to get more out of me and did my repair very quickly. I dropped the bike off at 5pm on a Tuesday and had it back by 4pm on Wednesday. Can't beat that. 2,000 miles later and all is well.

You'll know a good dealer from a bad one soon after you walk in the door or speak to the service mgr. If there's any doubt, do a 180 and find a dealer or mechanic you can trust. The headache isn't worth it.

I opened BmwMotorWerkz not long ago because there is a market for professional work done at a reasonable price. BMW service at the dealer is $90 per hour here in Colorado. I offer a long list of regular and scheduled maintenance items, upgrades and custom work and I charge by the job, not by the hour. I guarantee my customers a price (not an estimate) before any work is begun and depending on the difficulty of the work, my labor averages $20 per hour. I guarantee all of my work for the life of the motorcycle and that guarantee is fully transferable to the next owner. Just bring me the original receipt. You won't get that at BMW or any other dealer.

Bmwmotorwerkz@gmail.com


Sent from my iPhone
 
Nope. Canada. You can take on a lawyer, but from my experience with lawyers you just bend over a second time and take it even worse from them. Life is too short to be suing large corporations. I will never buy another BMW car and I suggest that to anyone else who wants to hear my story. If you insist on buying their cars, buy one with as few bells and whistles as possible. Trust me on that one. They charge huge amounts for their options bundles and you are just asking for trouble.

My GSA has been really good until recently. I have a suspicion one of the stick coils is gone. At least I know it ran good at one time and for three years .LOL


Don Eilenberger has a flow chart with how BMWNA deals with knows issues. I wish I had it. It was like, there is no problem, then oh that problem, it's the owner's fault, and I think Silence was in there too. Quite funny. Hopefully he'll post it here.
 
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Nope. Canada. You can take on a lawyer, but from my experience with lawyers you just bend over a second time and take it even worse from them. Life is too short to be suing large corporations. I will never buy another BMW car and I suggest that to anyone else who wants to hear my story. If you insist on buying their cars, buy one with as few bells and whistles as possible. Trust me on that one. They charge huge amounts for their options bundles and you are just asking for trouble.

My GSA has been really good until recently. I have a suspicion one of the stick coils is gone. At least I know it ran good at one time and for three years .LOL

Who knew?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWKQhkny06A
 
Some dealers are unquestionably bad, but it's useful to remember that life's a self-fulfilling prophecy, i.e. if you expect them to treat you badly, they will.

I've been unfailingly polite to the dealer in question, trying to be upbeat and positive hoping it might rub off on him. I really like his techs, as they are fast and very good, but the owner (husband and wife team as she appears to be the only person willing to put up with him for long) is so abrasive and vulgar I wonder if he has Tourette's Syndrome. His father, Frank, was a fantastic human being. Not so the son.

The last time I saw him I rode up in a great mood, having just had my sidecar rig modified to perfectly meet the long distance travel needs of my dog and I, and was greeted with a scowling, "Why anybody would take a perfectly good bike like the GSA and turn it into a piece of S@&$ like that is beyond me."

That was so far beyond the bounds of propriety that he lost my business forever.
 
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