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2012 R1200RT - another oil question...

corn5909

corn5909

Fun Handle
Okay - so at the risk of starting a thread that goes out of control;

My bike is going in for 6000 mile service - I asked what type of oil they are using. Answer: "Castrol 20-50." My owners manual does not recommend that weight. All recommended weights are lighter although my understanding from flipping through the threads on this site are that all modern boxers up to 2009 or so seem to use the 20-50. I'm no engine guru - but aren't there consequences to using a heavier oil than recommended? Like not getting enough flow though the bearings etc.? I'm not TOO worried about it since I'm in Las Vegas and its 90 degrees at 6AM... but still.

Anyone point me to a tech article or the correct thread addressing this if its an old topic?:confused:
 
I asked this same question when I bought my "newer" RT model. All three of the dealers I spoke to said they continued to use 20W50, not the "lighter" recommended weight suggested in manual. It's a guess, but assume either will work. If I rode year round, meaning in cold weather, I'd go with the lighter weight, but I'm typically in warmer air so go with the 20/50 dealer puts in. At 6,000 on my current '13, I'll go to 15W50 syn.
 
Using a straight SAE 50 would cause you problems with starting etc., until it gets hot. 20W50 is a multigrade oil that changes viscosity based on operational temperature. This happens because the oil is designed with specifically engineered polymers in the oil. There is no problem using 20W50 or even going to 5W50 if you want. 5W starts in very cold weather and any other time are easy on the starter and the battery.

I happen to use Amsoil 20W50 in the RT and it works fine in all my riding situations.
 
It's only when starting the engine that "20" is significant.

You really care most about the 2nd number and 50 is 50.

Unless you're parking your bike outdoors in really cold weather, the difference between 10 and 20 is insignificant.

You should worry more if the oil your dealer uses is not synthetic. Don't let them do that. And, if you're truly concerned about performance at temperature extremes, it's synthetic without a doubt.

And, 20W-50 isn't in the manual because Castrol doesn't have this variety in its synthetics lineup.
 
oil question

lkchris said:
It's only when starting the engine that "20" is significant.

You really care most about the 2nd number and 50 is 50.

Unless you're parking your bike outdoors in really cold weather, the difference between 10 and 20 is insignificant.

You should worry more if the oil your dealer uses is not synthetic. Don't let them do that. And, if you're truly concerned about performance at temperature extremes, it's synthetic without a doubt.

And, 20W-50 isn't in the manual because Castrol doesn't have this variety in its synthetics lineup.
Click to expand...

My manual and dealer. says 10-40 in my 2011 R1200RT,
 
As is typical with any oil related thread question (or any thread question for that matter)...many answers are not really related to the question - as asked. And opinions vary as I use only 0W5 however, I live only seven miles from Santa's house at the North Pole. 10W40, 15W40, 10W50, 15W50, 20W50 or even 7.125W43.250 will most likely keep the engine going till it is traded or crashed...hopefully the former rather than the latter.
 
Last edited:
Motodan said:
I asked this same question when I bought my "newer" RT model. All three of the dealers I spoke to said they continued to use 20W50, not the "lighter" recommended weight suggested in manual. It's a guess, but assume either will work. If I rode year round, meaning in cold weather, I'd go with the lighter weight, but I'm typically in warmer air so go with the 20/50 dealer puts in. At 6,000 on my current '13, I'll go to 15W50 syn.
Click to expand...

Motodan:

I would seriously NOT use synthetic at the first oil change. Assuming you have a hex-head and not one of the new water-cooled boxers. Use 20/50 dino oil until at least 20,000 miles. Oil use will be excessive for the life of the bike if you put synth in at the start.

Also, don't change the original oil early. It's special oil to help this break in process. It smells like kerosene and shoe polish had a baby. I changed mine at 600 because I was going on a long trip and the dealer was too busy to take care of it. I had their blessing for the trip. Got the rest of the service done when I came back. Smelliest oil I've ever seen!

I know you want "the best" for your new bike, but there are lots and lots of threads on this subject. No one, and I mean no one wears out a boxer engine by not putting synth in the engine but plenty have put synth in too soon and have engines that use a bunch of oil. Synth is great for very high and very low temps. I use it in my boxer, but mine is well broken in at 78K miles. I just completed a 3500 mile trip on my '05 R1200RT and used 4 oz of oil. Lots of I-80 droning at 80mph, some canyon carving and even some dirt. The farkles have advanced, but these motors are still the same.

Air and air/oil cooled boxers need the rings to seat and wear in a bit. Synthetic is too danged slick and it just won't happen. In fact, during this first 20K of use, make sure that the oil AND THE ENGINE are warm....That means about double the time it takes for the bike to come to temp on the gage. Then, don't be afraid to FLOG it, especially when you are near an oil change. Really give it the spurs, use many different RPMS etc. Work it.

I think these new water cooled boxers may work more like K-bikes and newer cars, where you can use thinner oils and have little or no break-in, but I'm not sure about it yet. R bikes without water cooling are different. They are terrific engines, but owners need a bit of tribal knowledge to get the best out of them. I love my RT and intend to run it a looonnnng time. Enjoy!
 
Last edited:
rtwiz said:
Motodan:

I would seriously NOT use synthetic at the first oil change. Assuming you have a hex-head and not one of the new water-cooled boxers. Use 20/50 dino oil until at least 20,000 miles. Oil use will be excessive for the life of the bike if you put synth in at the start.

Also, don't change the original oil early. It's special oil to help this break in process. It smells like kerosene and shoe polish had a baby. I changed mine at 6,000 because I was going on a long trip and the dealer was too busy to take care of it. I had their blessing for the trip. Got the rest of the service done when I came back. Smelliest oil I've ever seen!

I know you want "the best" for your new bike, but there are lots and lots of threads on this subject. No one, and I mean no one wears out a boxer engine by not putting synth in the engine but plenty have put synth in too soon and have engines that use a bunch of oil. Synth is great for very high and very low temps. I use it in my boxer, but mine is well broken in at 78K miles. I just completed a 3500 mile trip on my '05 R1200RT and used 4 oz of oil. Lots of I-80 droning at 80mph, some canyon carving and even some dirt. The farkles have advanced, but these motors are still the same.

Air and air/oil cooled boxers need the rings to seat and wear in a bit. Synthetic is too danged slick and it just won't happen. In fact, during this first 20K of use, make sure that the oil AND THE ENGINE are warm....That means about double the time it takes for the bike to come to temp on the gage. Then, don't be afraid to FLOG it, especially when you are near an oil change. Really give it the spurs, use many different RPMS etc. Work it.

I think these new water cooled boxers may work more like K-bikes and newer cars, where you can use thinner oils and have little or no break-in, but I'm not sure about it yet. R bikes without water cooling are different. They are terrific engines, but owners need a bit of tribal knowledge to get the best out of them. I love my RT and intend to run it a looonnnng time. Enjoy!
Click to expand...

Gee...you didn't have the required first service oil change? It is actually required according to BMW's own service schedule and would put your warranty coverage in serious question should there be an oil related problem.

I appreciate your input, but I'm fairly well versed on BMW bikes. I sold them off and on since 1988 and have owned about 30 of them...over 8 RTs since '96. My reply to the OP was partially tongue-in-cheek. However, as this thread shows, an oil thread is a thread to no where. I wouldn't get to hung up on all you've read and heard about oils...synthetics included. Isn't it interesting that Harleys can use synthetics from the get go? That some expensive High Performance air cooled cars (Porsche for one) come with syn oil from the factory? There are a lot of stories out there and most show up on the internet on a regular basis...enjoy your RT.
 
Last edited:
Closing thread...

Thank everyone. Ive done enough reading on this subject now that my head hurts. So, long story short - I live in a hot climate and its a low mileage bike, so I'm going to stick with conventionals at whatever weight the shop recommends. If its 20W50, so be it. When I get up towards 20K and move back to a cooler climate, I'll consider going to 10W40 synth since its easier to find at backroads service stations.

Cheers all - keep "it" off the pavement.
 
rtwiz said:
Motodan:

I would seriously NOT use synthetic at the first oil change. Assuming you have a hex-head and not one of the new water-cooled boxers. Use 20/50 dino oil until at least 20,000 miles. Oil use will be excessive for the life of the bike if you put synth in at the start.

snip

but plenty have put synth in too soon and have engines that use a bunch of oil. Synth is great for very high and very low temps. I use it in my boxer, but mine is well broken in at 78K miles. I just completed a 3500 mile trip on my '05 R1200RT and used 4 oz of oil. Lots of I-80 droning at 80mph, some canyon carving and even some dirt. The farkles have advanced, but these motors are still the same.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...

I have always put synth in at the 600 mile change and never used any oil. K's R's whatever. I think if your bike burns a lot of oil, you are either doing something to contribute or just the luck of the draw on tolerances or quality control. I had a '78 from new and it used a quart every 750 miles. I didn't do anything different as to oil than on any other airhead I owned back then. My dealer had a '78 made at the same time and I used three quarts going to Oregon from IL and he didn't add any oil all the way out. Go figure. He suggested I change my oil when we were out there like he was doing and I replied "I already did...on the way out here.".
We don't fill to the top of the window, but only halfway up the window. And measure that when hot after sitting 10 minutes. We too just went 4600 miles (R12GS '12) and used about 4 oz. My wifes '08 GS used about 4 oz also. She has 20W50 synth in the GS and I have 15W50 in mine. I was kind of intimidated by the new recommendations. Although, I figure they are mostly for fuel economy in the cars, trucks, and motorcycles to appease the government.
I figure if dino causes more wear for break-in then it would wear the engine out in 100K miles...and it doesn't. So I don't think there is a whits difference in them except that synth flows better when cold and has more anti-acid in it. Wear is probably enough the same that it doesn't matter which you use after the 600 mile change.
 
rtwiz said:
Motodan:

I would seriously NOT use synthetic at the first oil change. Assuming you have a hex-head and not one of the new water-cooled boxers. Use 20/50 dino oil until at least 20,000 miles. Oil use will be excessive for the life of the bike if you put synth in at the start.

Also, don't change the original oil early. It's special oil to help this break in process.

Sorry but can't let this one slide. I have run in 7 new 1200GS's. I have drained and replaced the oil at about 800 miles with 20-50 synth and on my cam head with 10-40 synth. I have averaged about 40k miles on each except the new one which has only 10k on it. None have burned oil/I have never added more than 1/4 qt between 6k mile oil changes. I run them in very hard from mile 10 which may be the reason. This is fact! Many if not most manufacturers now ship new motors with synth in the engines/no idea what BMW uses on their bikes.
Click to expand...
 
Motodan said:
Gee...you didn't have the required first service oil change? It is actually required according to BMW's own service schedule and would put your warranty coverage in serious question should there be an oil related problem.

I appreciate your input, but I'm fairly well versed on BMW bikes. I sold them off and on since 1988 and have owned about 30 of them...over 8 RTs since '96. My reply to the OP was partially tongue-in-cheek. However, as this thread shows, an oil thread is a thread to no where. I wouldn't get to hung up on all you've read and heard about oils...synthetics included. Isn't it interesting that Harleys can use synthetics from the get go? That some expensive High Performance air cooled cars (Porsche for one) come with syn oil from the factory? There are a lot of stories out there and most show up on the internet on a regular basis...enjoy your RT.
Click to expand...

...dan:

If you're thinking Porsche, you're thinking wrong. They haven't been air cooled for years. Before when they were air cooled, they had break in requirements. I have an '06 Cayman S and it uses thin 0w40 synthetic from new...but it's water cooled.

Very interesting that air-cooled Harleys can use synth from the get-go. I'm not familiar with Harley break in requirements or lack of them, but BMW twins are not Harleys.

You can, of course use synth in your hex head or oil head after the 600 mile service...but your bike will consume more oil. If you want it to be tight, you need to break it with dyne oil and it takes quite a while. The number of miles required depends on how you ride it. 20,000 miles is not too long for most riders. If you put synth in right away, it will never break in and will use oil for its life.

My oil WAS changed at 600, but I DID IT, (I wrote 6,000. My mistake. It's been corrected.) because the dealer was too busy (Spring of '05). After my oil change and 300 mile trip, I took it in with about 900 miles and they did the other things required. They told me I could do the change it at 600 only after I assured my tech that I was capable and that he could inspect the bike after the trip.

BMW warranties are worth spit anyway. Very capricious and inconsistent coverage, but I did nothing to void mine. My point was that the break-in oil smells and is different than normal motor oil. That's why it must be changed at 600. The break in oil is supplied at the factory and shipped in (or with?) the bike. It's made to help seat the rings. Not trying to say that it's OK for anyone to ignore the first service.
 
Last edited:
martyhill said:
rtwiz said:
Motodan:

I would seriously NOT use synthetic at the first oil change. Assuming you have a hex-head and not one of the new water-cooled boxers. Use 20/50 dino oil until at least 20,000 miles. Oil use will be excessive for the life of the bike if you put synth in at the start.

Also, don't change the original oil early. It's special oil to help this break in process.

Sorry but can't let this one slide. I have run in 7 new 1200GS's. I have drained and replaced the oil at about 800 miles with 20-50 synth and on my cam head with 10-40 synth. I have averaged about 40k miles on each except the new one which has only 10k on it. None have burned oil/I have never added more than 1/4 qt between 6k mile oil changes. I run them in very hard from mile 10 which may be the reason. This is fact! Many if not most manufacturers now ship new motors with synth in the engines/no idea what BMW uses on their bikes.
Click to expand...

Marty:

If you're flogging them with the break-in oil in, that might explain the success in sealing the engines. I've been following BMW guidelines for the first several thousand miles. I don't run through as many bikes as you, but the ones I've had have all taken a while to stop using oil. They have to stop consuming oil before you change to synth. That's my point. If you have a good way of breaking in new boxers and making them seal up before the 1st change, please share it.
Click to expand...
 
rtwiz said:
...dan:

If you're thinking Porsche, you're thinking wrong. They haven't been air cooled for years. Before when they were air cooled, they had break in requirements. I have an '06 Cayman S and it uses thin 0w40 synthetic from new...but it's water cooled.

Very interesting that air-cooled Harleys can use synth from the get-go. I'm not familiar with Harley break in requirements or lack of them, but BMW twins are not Harleys.

You can, of course use synth in your hex head or oil head after the 600 mile service...but your bike will consume more oil. If you want it to be tight, you need to break it with dyne oil and it takes quite a while. The number of miles required depends on how you ride it. 20,000 miles is not too long for most riders. If you put synth in right away, it will never break in and will use oil for its life.

My oil WAS changed at 600, but I DID IT, (I wrote 6,000. My mistake. It's been corrected.) because the dealer was too busy (Spring of '05). After my oil change and 300 mile trip, I took it in with about 900 miles and they did the other things required. They told me I could do the change it at 600 only after I assured my tech that I was capable and that he could inspect the bike after the trip.

BMW warranties are worth spit anyway. Very capricious and inconsistent coverage, but I did nothing to void mine. My point was that the break-in oil smells and is different than normal motor oil. That's why it must be changed at 600. The break in oil is supplied at the factory and shipped in (or with?) the bike. It's made to help seat the rings. Not trying to say that it's OK for anyone to ignore the first service.
Click to expand...

All due respect, but perhaps more research regarding certain aspects before providing free, but questionable data....or may be better proof reading, which as you point out would have made your earlier post (more factual), would make entries more accurate. Porsche has been filling engines with syn before they even went water-cooled...and your advise on clutch fluid, in a different thread, was also incorrect...the master cylinder reservoir level does not lower with clutch wear.
 
Motodan said:
All due respect, but perhaps more research regarding certain aspects before providing free, but questionable data....or may be better proof reading, which as you point out would have made your earlier post (more factual), would make entries more accurate. Porsche has been filling engines with syn before they even went water-cooled...and your advise on clutch fluid, in a different thread, was also incorrect...the master cylinder reservoir level does not lower with clutch wear.
Click to expand...

:bow:bow:bow

OK. Now that we've covered that...

I attended several tech sessions put on by BMWRT.COM about 1999 or 2000 by some very experienced and well versed, iron butt riding guys who know about oil use. In these sessions, we learned how to do valve adjustments perfectly, which takes a while and is not generally done by dealers. If
you want a boxer to run really smooth you have to do it this way. We also did throttle body synch procedures and other easier stuff like oil change.

I'm telling people exactly what I was told and have found to be true on 3 RTs. I didn't have high oil use on two of them. Did have high oil use on my 1150 until I took out the synth for 15K miles and really flogged the thing when warmed up. After that, it was tight.

Synth is slicker than dino. It's very hard to seat rings with synth in the bike. I'm done with this now. Sorry for the decimal error on the first service. I edited that for posterity.

Perhaps these people who use synth from the first change never push their bikes. or, like one of the posters, they ignore break in requirements and flog the bikes from new.

I use all the power available from my engines, do a lot of engine braking etc, at times. This really will cause a bike to use oil that is not fully broken in.

As far as Porsche putting synth in air cooled engines, I'm not sure that's true, but I'll take your word for now. Again, Porsche engines are not BMW boxers. Perhaps they used to run them in at the factory? I don't know, but BMW doesn't run in their boxer engines at the factory to seal the rings. The owner has to do it. BMW's written break in requirements do not lend themselves to this in the first 600 miles.

Between the oil use thing and the problems with checking oil in a consistent way on these bikes, a lot of new owners get confused. A lot of over-filling happens and a lot of the engines use oil their whole lives needlessly.

Apologized for the clutch fluid error previous to your post. Had what pushes what turned around in my head.
 
rtwiz said:
martyhill said:
Marty:

If you're flogging them with the break-in oil in, that might explain the success in sealing the engines. I've been following BMW guidelines for the first several thousand miles. I don't run through as many bikes as you, but the ones I've had have all taken a while to stop using oil. They have to stop consuming oil before you change to synth. That's my point. If you have a good way of breaking in new boxers and making them seal up before the 1st change, please share it.
Click to expand...

I did. Read what I posted. Oil use is either bad luck or babying the bike, more likely the latter. If yours are using oil for 20k, your either very unlucky or doing the break in wrong. I was also at those tech days many years ago at bmwrt. Your also wrong about not changing to synthetic till 20k. I do it at 6-800 miles.
Click to expand...
 
Motodan said:
OP's question is based on BMW's "newest" recommendation for latest RT engine (as in the 2013 Owner's Manual)...20W50 is no longer listed as a recommended weight...they now list: 5W40, 5W50, 10W40, 10W50 and 15W50 depending on expected ambient air temperatures.
Click to expand...

That's accurate.

How some people interpret this as 10W-40 and nothing else is a good question.

Oh, and while yer at it why not learn about engine break-in in the 21st century? The following isn't a bad source. Here's an interesting quote:

In the past, the engine break-in period was very important to the overall life and durability of the engine. The break-in period required has changed over the years with improved piston ring materials and designs. The break-in period now (5-10 hours) is short in comparison with that of engines of the past. Aluminum cylinder bore engine piston rings break-in faster than those used on cast iron cylinder bores.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_break-in

How yer Dad did it with his '56 Oldsmobile is no longer particularly relevant.
 
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