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ALL R1200's (and other BMWs) - NHTSA investigation into fuel leaks progressing..

deilenberger

A bozo on the bus
I subscribe to the NHTSA recall notices for motorcycles. Hadn't seen anything yet on the fuel strips or fuel-pump leaks, so did some digging:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM441360/INOA-EA13006-6112.PDF

It gives a name of an investigator, and states that they've received video of the leak occurring. I rather suspect BMW will be called to task on this (or do a voluntary recall.) Note that there are 80 reports of failures from owners, and 15 from BMW. I rather suspect the 80 reports from owners is what finally got NHTSA's attention. People who haven't reported a fuel strip failure might consider doing so - there are some specific instructions on how to do it (so the NHTSA knows to gather all the complaints into one big complaint) in the Fuel Trip Poll thread.

Just a FWIW - the wheels turn slowly, but correctly applied - they DO turn.
 
:thumb
In the US -
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Welcome to SaferCar.gov, where you can identify and report problems you might be having with your vehicle, tires, equipment or car seats. If you think you have a problem, we want you to tell us about it. We are the Office of Defects Investigation, or ODI. We are a part of the U.S. DOT's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the nation's only agency authorized to conduct defect investigations and administer safety recalls on everything from vehicles and equipment to tires and child safety seats. Our engineers and investigators look into problems you report to help ensure you and others stay safe on our nation's roads and highways

File a complaint using their online form at : https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

Or request a pdf form at : https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/portable/index.cfm

Tansport Canada - https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/7/pcdb-bdpp/fc-cp.aspx?lang=eng
 
I am one of the complaints. My fuel pump had to be replaced, it leaked all over my legs in mesh textile pants. and wound up in my boots. It took a lot of washing and cleaning to eradicate the smell. What a PIA!
 
BMW has tacitly recognized the problem because later fuel pumps have the inlet metal reinforced.

This should mean that the design exists and ramping up production a little to cover the needed replacements should be fairly easy.

However, noting that Jeep is "fixing" a fuel tank vulnerability by fitting trailer hitches, BMW could specify simply fitting the beemer boneyard metal reinforcer to existing pumps.

It's really too bad we never know whether this is an "issue" in Europe and what is being done about it there.

Will be interesting.
 
So, good to hear. I've got a 2006 RT and it too has the plastic fittings on the pump. I was going to replace them with the metal ones from BeemerBoneyard but am afraid of cracking the housing on the pump when tightening the new metal fittings.

Will my old 2006 model be included in any recall / campaign from BMW?
 
So, good to hear. I've got a 2006 RT and it too has the plastic fittings on the pump. I was going to replace them with the metal ones from BeemerBoneyard but am afraid of cracking the housing on the pump when tightening the new metal fittings.

Will my old 2006 model be included in any recall / campaign from BMW?
I doubt if anyone can answer that here.. NHTSA would be the ones determining this.
 
BMW has tacitly recognized the problem because later fuel pumps have the inlet metal reinforced.

This should mean that the design exists and ramping up production a little to cover the needed replacements should be fairly easy.

However, noting that Jeep is "fixing" a fuel tank vulnerability by fitting trailer hitches, BMW could specify simply fitting the beemer boneyard metal reinforcer to existing pumps.

It's really too bad we never know whether this is an "issue" in Europe and what is being done about it there.

Will be interesting.

I'm betting BMW's solution will be some sort of clamp on ring, with a special tool to install it (probably an Oetker type design) allowing the dealer 30 minutes labor time to do the job (regardless of bike model..)

And I'm sure based on BMW's usual reactions to these sort of things:

1. What problem?
2. Oh, that problem. First we've heard of it.
3. You caused it
4. Your environment caused it (fuel properties usually)
5. We have no problem

Is at step #4 now... so I'm certain they've never heard of the problem in Europe.. (said with tongue firmly in cheek..) It's caused by bad US karma.
 
I'm betting BMW's solution will be some sort of clamp on ring, with a special tool to install it (probably an Oetker type design) allowing the dealer 30 minutes labor time to do the job (regardless of bike model..)

Only if they make it more complicated than it needs to be...which they've done before.

When this issue surfaced a year or two ago, a rider on the R1200R board offered machined rings as reinforcements. I bought one. The installation required no special tools, nor did it raise any "how tight shall I make this?" issues. I pulled the tank, disconnected the QD on the fuel line running from the pump boss, leaving the the other half of the QD screwed in. The machined ring passed over the screwed-in QD half, and I tested the light interference fit; it was OK.

I then cleaned the boss, applied a bead of JB Weld around the boss, and again passed the machined ring over the QD half and pushed it onto the boss. Wait to cure. Reinstall QD and reinstall tank. Because the ring was correctly sized, the only other tool needed was the small ball peen hammer I used to make sure the ring was completely seated.
 
When this issue surfaced a year or two ago, a rider on the R1200R board offered machined rings as reinforcements. snip

There was a lot of chatter over there about this issue, and some of it was has it ever been reported on an r1200r? The answer was the same setup was used on the RTs that certainly failed, suggesting it was just a matter of time???

The link is dead so I cannot read it for myself, but does this apply to all r1200X s, or certain years or certain models?

Aside: the beemer boneyard collar is out of stock as of today.

Is it considered prudent to swap out to the metal disconnects on the 1200s? It was an imperative on the 1150s

John
 
I will be watching this thread, but I plan to wait for the recall letter before taking action. My '07 R1200R has the all the original fuel fittings and I have left them alone--never had any reason to take the tank off.
 
There was a lot of chatter over there about this issue, and some of it was has it ever been reported on an r1200r? The answer was the same setup was used on the RTs that certainly failed, suggesting it was just a matter of time???...

It's the same setup, with the same parts, so I thought it was prudent to act. I did not want to experience the failure.

Is it considered prudent to swap out to the metal disconnects on the 1200s?

Given that the parts are the same plastic pieces that failed in other models, I thought so.
 
If Europe is having the same issues, wouldn't it show up in either their local forums or their magazines (like Das Rad)? Anybody subscribe to any of those?
 
I'm betting BMW's solution will be some sort of clamp on ring, with a special tool to install it (probably an Oetker type design) allowing the dealer 30 minutes labor time to do the job (regardless of bike model..)

And I'm sure based on BMW's usual reactions to these sort of things:

1. What problem?
2. Oh, that problem. First we've heard of it.
3. You caused it
4. Your environment caused it (fuel properties usually)
5. We have no problem

Is at step #4 now... so I'm certain they've never heard of the problem in Europe.. (said with tongue firmly in cheek..) It's caused by bad US karma.

Don, it seems things never change. I bought a new R75/5 in 1970, it was Butler and Smith then not BMWNA, Helmet Kern was the guy you talked to with tech probblems back then. My /5 had the new Bing CV carbs installed and it ran poorly. When I took it up with Mr. Kern, I'm shure you know what he said, with his German accent, we half no probblems, I assured him there was a problem as I had installed a pair of Amal carbs from a Triumph and the bike ran well with no farther tuning.

I finaly got the problem resolved but it was like a boxing match, you had to win several rounds before you could get results. I worked in a motorcycle shop at the time, we sold Honda, Triumph and BMW, and BMW was always the most diffacult to get along with on warranty issues.
 
07 RT1200 RT - Fuel Leak Last Week (NHTSA ID Number 10536814)

All - Looking for advice in this arena and maybe direction if I am in the wrong forum to ask. My bike began spraying gas last week - I filed with NHTSA and after reading potential options went the route of trying DIY with the aluminum shroud from Beemerboneyard and JB Weld - I let it cure for two days and tried riding to work Friday without issue. Saturday I washed the grime and smelled gas again - When I took off the fairing the leak was oozing out from under the epoxy.

Question is do I cut my losses and have my "reasonably" close dealer (50 miles) just replace the fuel pump assembly and hope to be heard by BMW? I recognize the wheels turn slow, but the "local dealer" reacted just as everyone above noted (first we heard of it) and I'm tempted to simply pay for the fix so that the bike doesn't languish in the garage and hope for the best. I've stripped the intake back to plastic and I am re-trying the shroud with a homemade gasket and epoxy application - Goal is to wait it out and have BMW help, but based on what I have read, it would make more sense to just get it fixed and be riding again in a couple of weeks.

Please advise - This is the first issue I'd count as an issue for the bike that was beyond my control - In the image below you can see the "cracks" are past the point of simple epoxy repair - Thank you, Tim


07 R1200RT.jpg
 
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This is the first issue I'd count as an issue for the bike that was beyond my control ...

Beyond your control? I don't believe installing a new part is all that difficult... the $500 cost because apparently you can only buy the housing with the $325 fuel pump and $55 strainer is another story. I am assuming that the replacement part is available if you're willing to cough up the cash. :dunno
 
I am an R1200R rider and materials engineer with automotive experience in metals and plastics.I have been involved in NHTSA recalls. From what I see in tribble99's photo, the problem looks to be one of environmental stress cracking--a combination of stresses in the component and some environmental factor that leads to cracking over time. The corrective action for such a problem is to either reduce the stresses or eliminate the environmental factor. The stresses can be from the tightening of the male fitting and/or from residual stresses in the plastic molded part.The environmental factor could be fuel related or it could be from external factors, such as service environment (i.e. heat, air pollutants, cleaning agents, etc.) I am not familiar with the band type fix for this issue, but one problem I can see with this approach is that injection molded plastic parts have draft on the surfaces, like bosses, which results in a taper. Hard to clamp on a taper. You also have surface cleanliness, which works to defeat adhesive repair attempts. Plastic molded parts typically have release agents applied to allow extraction after molding and this inhibits adhesive bonding repairs unless the surface is scuffed up. One other comment I have is that with a metal male fitting vs a plastic one, there is the possibility of developing higher stresses while tighening the metal one in an uncontrolled installation process.
 
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All those key points apply here. The fuel supply and containment system is a sloppy design all around and can create multiple problems for owners. The fuel gauge strip is a separate problem, another design not fit for the real world, but not related to the fuel pump flange area issues- some of which create leaks and others that don't.

The flange materials are wrong for a starter. A flimsy plastic female fitting (wrong plastic- not a reinforced type) receives a plastic male that is easily torqued a bit too much. Its the usual pipe thread type so simply wedges the female fitting to crack over time or immediately if greatly overtorqued. A correct plastic, exact torques allowing for aging effects, or metal parts to reinforce will work for stopping that cracking at or around the female bit on the flange. Or one could redesign this attachment point to seal by means other than a pipe thread or use an altogether different type of connection at a redesigned flange. Many options available - only a question of cost and practicality about which to choose.

The system uses plastic QDs and these also fail when the male fitting cracks at its tube section which is relatively thin walled. Years ago I saw a post by an individual claiming to be employed by the maker of these bit who said they advised BMW not to use them but I can't vouch for the truth of that claim. These fittings can be damaged by careless handling and all the usual means. BMW offers metal males these days but again did nothing for bikes in service other than regular warranty coverage.

The fpc- both its design and position is another problem at the flange location, that is not related to leaks- only reliability. There have been thousands of fpc failures. BMW has made a design upgrade to the fpc and repositioned it on newer bikes but done nothing to address this on older bikes other than regular warranty coverage. Having a bike quit at speed in traffic is a safety problem IMO.

I don't know who designed the bits and selected the materials at the fuel flange but I hope they've fired him by now- the design has so many screwups a first year engineering student should see - its ridiculous when looked at closely.

Owners have created a few problems attempting to fix this mess- like overtightening a metal male replacement into the plastic female at the flange and creating a crack.

I replaced a dead fpc on mine and added a metal band to the female flange fitting as a preemptive measure to prevent cracks developing over time as the plastic stretches in response to the wedge forces of the pipe thread design.
 
All - Looking for advice in this arena and maybe direction if I am in the wrong forum to ask. My bike began spraying gas last week - I filed with NHTSA and after reading potential options went the route of trying DIY with the aluminum shroud from Beemerboneyard and JB Weld - I let it cure for two days and tried riding to work Friday without issue. Saturday I washed the grime and smelled gas again - When I took off the fairing the leak was oozing out from under the epoxy.

Question is do I cut my losses and have my "reasonably" close dealer (50 miles) just replace the fuel pump assembly and hope to be heard by BMW? I recognize the wheels turn slow, but the "local dealer" reacted just as everyone above noted (first we heard of it) and I'm tempted to simply pay for the fix so that the bike doesn't languish in the garage and hope for the best. I've stripped the intake back to plastic and I am re-trying the shroud with a homemade gasket and epoxy application - Goal is to wait it out and have BMW help, but based on what I have read, it would make more sense to just get it fixed and be riding again in a couple of weeks.

Please advise - This is the first issue I'd count as an issue for the bike that was beyond my control - In the image below you can see the "cracks" are past the point of simple epoxy repair - Thank you, Tim


View attachment 41592
If it is leaking from a crack in the bung it can be repaired ,,I used JB weld on my pump and I have over 45K miles on the repair,,,No Leaks,,, Install clamp,,Coat inside female pump treads and male treads on the quick release fitting with JB weld,,Screw in fitting as tight as you can by hand,,Don"t wipe of Excess coming out of the top,, Tighten clamp,( just snug it up ) let dry for 24 hours ,,Plug in you fuel line and ride,,,,Have done this repair on over 20 bike and not one has leaked,,,
 
Is it considered prudent to swap out to the metal disconnects on the 1200s? It was an imperative on the 1150s

On the Hexheads, the QD isn't subjected to the same sort of heat. I have been upgrading them on a by-eye basis so far, but I upgrade all of the 11xx ones every time now.
 
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