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Thread: Msrp ?

  1. #76
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Wow, this thing is really meandering around... I went back and looked at the title of the Motorrad forum are - "General BMW and bike talk". I know there's a wisp of BMW and motorcycles being discussed here, but let's try and stay a little closer to the OP's questions about MSRP and his purchase of a new BMW. Thanks...
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    Well, we got off on a tangent because someone did ask, twice, what retail markups were in other fields to compare them to BMW prices.

    I'll put my responses to bed with this one question- (The movie popcorn was one good example)
    If you're complaining about BMW parts prices have you ever complained about or refused to buy that $1.75 fountain soda which costs that restaurant 5 cents?
    Or the $13.00 pizza that has, at most, $2 worth of ingredients? No, we accept the fact that the pizzeria has many business costs and needs to have larger profits on some items than others. Kind of like the BMW dealer's parts and repair business bringing in a larger profit margin than bike sales do.

    For 15 years now, Harley-Davidson earns more from the clothing and lifestyle lines than they earn from motorcycle sales.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    That seems to be pretty much what we have turned out in our generation. A long time ago people that didn't even graduate high school pretty much built America.
    Billy,

    Two points:

    1) Consider the membership of the Continental Congress..........Most of these folks were well educated (e.g. Jefferson & Adams), successful in business or completed apprentice programs (B. Franklin from PA). They didn't just show up at the convention as interested parties with a few pamphlets. They were an affluent, enlightened group on par with the intellectual salons of Europe.

    2) In our post WW-2 view of the world, many of our parents and grandparents entered the workforce thru gov't supported apprentice programs. In the case of defense contractors, the apprentice programs were directly supported and mandated, in commercial industries, the expense of the apprentice programs were offset with tax deductions. The employees gained skills while earning a paycheck. So. yes, in that period, you could claim that high school graduates "built" the country. But, keep in mind, at the same time, the gov't spent lots of money on programs like the GI bill and education grants to send people to college to work in industry and design airplanes, ships, highways, etc.. Why did the US gov't do this after WW-2? Because, 15-yrs earlier, another nation, Germany, did the same thing and nearly took over all of Europe.
    Last edited by 36654; 07-12-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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  4. #79
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    There was also a time where a high school degree was an indication of a sound fundamental education. Both my parents had high school degrees; of their three sons one has a doctorate and the other two masters degrees. Yet none of their children have an understanding of grammer, civics or history that equals what they got in highschool. I worked at a state university for many years. In my opinion the highschool degree does not offer you much assurance that the holder is competent in very much these days.
    Last edited by akbeemer; 07-12-2013 at 11:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    I has a doctorate
    HUH?


  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Wow, this thing is really meandering around... I went back and looked at the title of the Motorrad forum are - "General BMW and bike talk". I know there's a wisp of BMW and motorcycles being discussed here, but let's try and stay a little closer to the OP's questions about MSRP and his purchase of a new BMW. Thanks...
    As for my part in this the OP conversation was a disount-based question. There are people that complain about the seemingly high prices within BMW and I was wondering what other industries marked things up at. As that mark-up has everything to do with what you can discount I thought it would be extremely relevant.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    There was also a time where a high school degree was an indication of a sound fundamental education. Both my parents had high school degrees; of their three sons I has a doctorate and the other two masters degrees. Yet none of their children have an understanding of grammer, civics or history that equals what they got in highschool. I worked at a state university for many years. In my opinion the highschool degree does not offer you much assurance that the holder is competent in very much these days.
    Really? What is your take on Wall Street and the banking industry today? Presumably the high schoolers and bank tellers didn't get us into the fix we've had the last few years. I have the sneaky suspicion that competency is more individual-based than educators may realize. Present an opportunity to a driven someone with a fire burnin' in the belly and you never know what the result will be.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    As for my part in this the OP conversation was a disount-based question. There are people that complain about the seemingly high prices within BMW and I was wondering what other industries marked things up at. As that mark-up has everything to do with what you can discount I thought it would be extremely relevant.
    But you bring up greed in America and what's being taught in the classroom, the banking industry, etc., etc. I think we've been straying pretty far afield...that's all I'm saying.

    Not just you either...we're talking founding fathers, WWII, etc.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicVW View Post
    Well, we got off on a tangent because someone did ask, twice, what retail markups were in other fields to compare them to BMW prices.

    I'll put my responses to bed with this one question- (The movie popcorn was one good example)
    If you're complaining about BMW parts prices have you ever complained about or refused to buy that $1.75 fountain soda which costs that restaurant 5 cents?
    Or the $13.00 pizza that has, at most, $2 worth of ingredients? No, we accept the fact that the pizzeria has many business costs and needs to have larger profits on some items than others. Kind of like the BMW dealer's parts and repair business bringing in a larger profit margin than bike sales do.

    For 15 years now, Harley-Davidson earns more from the clothing and lifestyle lines than they earn from motorcycle sales.
    Parts yes, service no when it comes to net. Many, many dealers lose money on an annual basis in the service department. It is actually the toughest department to get under control and maintain under control than any other dealership department. By a wide margin I might add.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    But you bring up greed in America and what's being taught in the classroom, the banking industry, etc., etc. I think we've been straying pretty far afield...that's all I'm saying.

    Not just you either...we're talking founding fathers, WWII, etc.
    Point taken.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Billy,

    Two points:

    1) Consider the membership of the Continental Congress..........Most of these folks were well educated (e.g. Jefferson & Adams), successful in business or completed apprentice programs (B. Franklin from PA). They didn't just show up at the convention as interested parties with a few pamphlets. They were an affluent, enlightened group on par with the intellectual salons of Europe.

    2) In our post WW-2 view of the world, many of our parents and grandparents entered the workforce thru gov't supported apprentice programs. In the case of defense contractors, the apprentice programs were directly supported and mandated, in commercial industries, the expense of the apprentice programs were offset with tax deductions. The employees gained skills while earning a paycheck. So. yes, in that period, you could claim that high school graduates "built" the country. But, keep in mind, at the same time, the gov't spent lots of money on programs like the GI bill and education grants to send people to college to work in industry and design airplanes, ships, highways, etc.. Why did the US gov't do this after WW-2? Because, 15-yrs earlier, another nation, Germany, did the same thing and nearly took over all of Europe.
    I'm talkin' pre WW-II.

  12. #87
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicVW View Post
    HUH?

    Yes, and he's complaining kids today have no appreciation for grammar...probably one of those situations where the author is actually "over qualified" to make statements on a motorcycle forum...LOL.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicVW View Post
    HUH?

    See.... Poor grammar. My dad would never have made such an error. Should read one instead of I.
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  14. #89
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Fwiw

    By the way you can ignore this question if you feel it's none of my business.

    No intention to ignore the question.I started a reply this morning then was called in early to work. Work, a race update in BR&TMR and I am back at it again. I am already signed up for a MOOC over at Coursera.com and frankly don?t have the time or inclination to get involved in BMW MOA MBA wanabe thread. Please take this response as one big FWIW because I don?t intend defending it.

    I will try and frame my response in terms of the OP. Apparently the simple question has been forgotten.


    I am looking at. 2013 R1200R

    Dealer told me that while the side bags are included by BMW, the dealer has to take a hit on them and they therefore do not have room for movement off of MSRP ?

    If I buy new what should I expect to pay ?

    Are there any MOA discounts ?



    I took this a single transaction question. It involves a number of factors but at heart a simple negotiating question dealing with a single transaction. The OP was not able to come to an acceptable deal for both parties with the original dealer, went to another dealer and is taking delivery of a new R from them.

    - I?m happy for the OP. He did what I have done in the past and I hope he enjoys his R as much as I enjoy mine.
    - I don?t think the first dealer is good or bad. It just was not able to work a deal they felt benefited them and would make the sale.
    - I don?t think the selling dealer is anything beyond one that had the business conditions and willingness to make the deal with the OP.



    There is a reason behind the question.

    The motorcycle industry is a fairly low profit margin industry especially given the fact that it is a true speciality industry at least in the USA. On a nationwide basis there is no such thing as selling major quantity as there is in automotive.


    Confusing the forest for the trees.

    Forest: The motorcycle industry overall is returning a reasonable profit for investors, paying dividends and expanding.

    Trees: Dealers, as a species of trees that make up the forest are hard pressed and operating on slim margins.

    The two are often confused when we talk about profitability and margins.


    I was just interested in seeing profit margins from other industry's and how they compared and whether a given industry had mass market appeal or was considered speciality as I assume the margins would probably be different between the two..

    As I said I have managed in a variety of industries. With very few exceptions these have been publicly held companies so the margins are out there in the filings, annual reports etc. I don?t mean it as a dodge but information you are looking for margins and specific strategies at the transaction level were things I was not to divulge when I worked for the companies and don?t feel inclined to do so in a thread on this forum. In several cases the information would be so moldy due to drastic changes in how these industries do business and price due to the way the industries evolved.


    We run an extremely transparent store. I've operated that way for maybe 2 decades. Anyone who walks in the door is welcome to see dealer cost on anything. The margin of profit is nothing that needs to be hidden and I find it to be an educational tool as many people tend to assume we make more than reality

    Transparency is the new cool term. For all the definitions and efforts at it I don?t think we understand its purpose or how to use it.

    Margins
    Percentages keep getting thrown around to describe margins. I have yet to be able to make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys with percentages. I can do all of those with dollars.

    The OP had certain amount of dollars he wanted to spend on R1200R.

    Dealer A has a business plan that in this case did not leave him the margin they felt they needed to make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys.

    Dealer B was able to do that.

    The trees need to be feed. Dealers need to have a margin that allows them to survive and hopefully thrive. Some trees are big. Some trees are small.

    The OP is going riding this weekend.
    Dealer A will open their shop and hopefully sell their R1200R and then go riding.
    Dealer B will deliver a bike and have money to go out and make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys.

    I have to catch up on class work, do some fun reading and work this weekend. Monday is a day off and I can play. You guys have fun with this rambling thread.
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    I'm talkin' pre WW-II.
    You were alive then?

    Prior to 1940, the typical white student graduated at the end of 8th grade.

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