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2009 R1200GSA innermittent stalling when coasting to a stop.
- Thread starter topwrench
- Start date
Because of my stalling problem the tech asked me why didn't I pull in the clutch and re-start my bike. My answer was I tried but the starter would not ingauge until she was in neutral. He said my bike should start with the kick stand up, clutch pulled in and any gear selected.Good news that she'll be running down the road again soon.
What did you do to check the clutch micro switch?
Here's how I checked out the switch.
First: I removed the switch from the left hand grip. (CAUTION When removing the switch there is a very little anvil looking part on the switch which will fall out when removing. This anvil is the base for the adjustment screw of the switch on the hand grip.) I suggest looking up the switch in a microfische to see what it looks like.
Second: I left the switch plugged it, removed from the hand grip and turned on the ignition. Put my bike in second gear and tried to start the bike. Nothing (That's how it's suppose to work. Kickstand up plunger NOT activated on the microswitch.)
Third: (This is where a second set of hands help) Clutch pulled in and second gear selected. Have someone push down the plunger on the microswitch and try to start the bike. Mine did nothing. It is suppose to start. Remember during this test the kickstand and center stand should be up.
Hopefully I have explained this properly and it helps you in troubleshooting your microswitch.
Scott D.
I spent hours looking for pliers that would work. I will be going to NAPA this week.I'd suggest before trying to put the new clamps on - get the tool to do it. They are quite easy to install/remove and are completely reusable if you buy the tool. Lisle makes one - cost is about $13. http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?product=161&division=1&category=4
30500, CV BOOT CLAMP PLIERS, For Earless-Type Clamps
These clamps are used on FWD cars - so there is a good chance your local friendly NAPA dealer has this tool in stock.
And as far as your problem - you own a GS911. Have you looked at the O2 sensor output graph? If one (or both) have failed, this is not an uncommon symptom (I've replaced both O2 sensors on my '07 R1200R). Unlike cars - failed O2 sensors on bikes set no code.. the only way to know if they're working is to look at the output. If you need a good image of what it should look like - ping me and I'll post one here.
As for the GS911. The one that I borrow from a fellow GS'er is on his bike which is on the way to the rally.
I'm familiar with the graph but will have to wait until it returns.
Thank you for the information should be useful.
Scott D.
Current Status:
Today I received my new oetiker screw clamps from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. I had to move them around to make sure the fit and clearance were proper. Only issue I had was one set were too small. next size ordered and on the way. Thought you would like to see the end result.
For reference if interested part numbers are 065-9 and 070-9 oetiker screw clamps.
Today I received my new oetiker screw clamps from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. I had to move them around to make sure the fit and clearance were proper. Only issue I had was one set were too small. next size ordered and on the way. Thought you would like to see the end result.
For reference if interested part numbers are 065-9 and 070-9 oetiker screw clamps.
Okay clamps installed, non-ethanol gas in the tank, clutch micro-switch installed and adjusted. Tomorrow I will take a ride and check out the stalling issue. If it doesn't rear its ugly head then does Billy owe me pie cause a micro-switch is electrical isn't it ?
Scott D.
billy walker
BMW Rider
I would believe that to be correct BUT a question...
aren't you doing multiple repairs? One throttle body/intake-related and 1 electrical? Is that legal? How do you know what actually repaired the issue? I have the funds put aside for pie. Where does this pie come from? I know I saw a reference to it from somewhere.Hey Billy
Replacing the micro-switch I consider a repair and cleaning the throttle bodies is more of a service item, since I only removed the sludge. The clamps are collateral damage. Yes, their is a very, very remote chance the unclean throttle bodies "could have" contributed to the issue or were the sole reason for the issue.
Notwithstanding I believe in the Food Court of law. My assumption has an obscure shred of truth based solely on the foundation of flour, lard and filling.
Sooo....how close are you to Texas?
Replacing the micro-switch I consider a repair and cleaning the throttle bodies is more of a service item, since I only removed the sludge. The clamps are collateral damage. Yes, their is a very, very remote chance the unclean throttle bodies "could have" contributed to the issue or were the sole reason for the issue.
Notwithstanding I believe in the Food Court of law. My assumption has an obscure shred of truth based solely on the foundation of flour, lard and filling.
Sooo....how close are you to Texas?
Last edited:
Today will be my final reply to this stalling issue.
I rode 250 miles today checking out my bike and seeing if the issue returns. I am happy to say it did not return even though I tried to get it to repeat.
Here is what was done to my bike:
1. Filled up with non-ethanol gas.
2. Cleaned throttle bodies.
3. Cleaned crud from kickstand switch.
4. Replaced clutch micro-switch.
Because of the nature of my bike's stalling issue I believe the clutch micro-switch (which was found bad) was the main culprit in my bike's issue.
All of you who gave suggestions based on your own experiences, I want to say "Thank you" for taking the time to share with me and helping.
Safe travels.
Scott D.
I rode 250 miles today checking out my bike and seeing if the issue returns. I am happy to say it did not return even though I tried to get it to repeat.
Here is what was done to my bike:
1. Filled up with non-ethanol gas.
2. Cleaned throttle bodies.
3. Cleaned crud from kickstand switch.
4. Replaced clutch micro-switch.
Because of the nature of my bike's stalling issue I believe the clutch micro-switch (which was found bad) was the main culprit in my bike's issue.
All of you who gave suggestions based on your own experiences, I want to say "Thank you" for taking the time to share with me and helping.
Safe travels.
Scott D.
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
I don't believe the clutch switch has anything to do with the engine running, only when starting in gear. And if it was bad, then it's why you couldn't restart the bike.
The side stand switch will kill the engine, but will at any time. Not just when slowing down or while pulling in the clutch.
I would think the crud in the throttle bodies and maybe air leaks around the intake would have been the most likely.
Fuel could be an issue and may depend on engine temp.
Allow me to disagree with you.
First, over the past two years and fifteen thousand miles my bike has stalled exactly six times. The condition of the stall was exactly the same during each occurrence. After starting my bike and riding for awhile on a 95 degree day or hotter and riding twenty or more miles I would come to a stop, bike at operating temperature. As I was coasting to the stop, with my clutch pulled in and down shifting, my bike's engine would die no hick up or stumbling directly off. It was like I had hit the kill switch. I would have to put the bike in neutral to restart. It never was the first time I stopped during the ride but the stalling happened once during the ride (after reaching operating temperature) and didn't return for the rest of the ride.
My reason for thinking this way.
If the main culprit was an air leak, the crud in the throttle bodies or ethanol gas then in my mind the stalling issue would be consistent in nature during every ride provided the atmospheric conditions were the same.
It is my understanding that the clutch micro-switch, kickstand switch and gear select switch work together for rider safety etc. The clutch micro-switch was bad. How did I know this? My bike would not start in gear with the clutch pulled in and kick stand up. I also put a meter on the switch and confirmed it did not work.
Therefore I strongly believe in my specific situation that the clutch micro-switch for some reason ( I think the heat ) would think the kickstand was down and kill my bike.
Yes the kickstand switch lets the clutch switch know it is down but the clutch micro-switch might have had an intermittent problem.
I believed the issue from the beginning was more electrical than mechanical.
My purpose for this thread was asking anyone what their experience or suggestion would be to help me in the repair of my bike. I believe many issues with our bikes can be unique to our bikes. I also believe our bikes will share common problems that we will experience and hopefully share with each other.
Am I always right ? Let me clarify that I have been wrong on many occasions.
Thank you for your response.
Scott D.
First, over the past two years and fifteen thousand miles my bike has stalled exactly six times. The condition of the stall was exactly the same during each occurrence. After starting my bike and riding for awhile on a 95 degree day or hotter and riding twenty or more miles I would come to a stop, bike at operating temperature. As I was coasting to the stop, with my clutch pulled in and down shifting, my bike's engine would die no hick up or stumbling directly off. It was like I had hit the kill switch. I would have to put the bike in neutral to restart. It never was the first time I stopped during the ride but the stalling happened once during the ride (after reaching operating temperature) and didn't return for the rest of the ride.
My reason for thinking this way.
If the main culprit was an air leak, the crud in the throttle bodies or ethanol gas then in my mind the stalling issue would be consistent in nature during every ride provided the atmospheric conditions were the same.
It is my understanding that the clutch micro-switch, kickstand switch and gear select switch work together for rider safety etc. The clutch micro-switch was bad. How did I know this? My bike would not start in gear with the clutch pulled in and kick stand up. I also put a meter on the switch and confirmed it did not work.
Therefore I strongly believe in my specific situation that the clutch micro-switch for some reason ( I think the heat ) would think the kickstand was down and kill my bike.
Yes the kickstand switch lets the clutch switch know it is down but the clutch micro-switch might have had an intermittent problem.
I believed the issue from the beginning was more electrical than mechanical.
My purpose for this thread was asking anyone what their experience or suggestion would be to help me in the repair of my bike. I believe many issues with our bikes can be unique to our bikes. I also believe our bikes will share common problems that we will experience and hopefully share with each other.
Am I always right ? Let me clarify that I have been wrong on many occasions.
Thank you for your response.
Scott D.
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
I agree that you had a bad clutch switch, but for it to kill the engine doesn't add up as I understand the electrics. You can start the bike in neutral with the sidestand out, but as far as I know, the side stand switch kills the engine if you engage a gear regardless of whether the clutch is in or out.
So I would have suspected that the side stand switch would have been the culprit except for the conditions of shutdown being somewhat repeatable with temperature but not consistent.
Doesn't matter, but yours is just a puzzle I found interesting. One thing I learned as an EE is never to do more than one fix when diagnosing a problem...and if doesn't solve the problem...put it back the way it was and try the next thing (hard to do with crud in the throttle bodies). Also never discount a coincidence of two or more unconnected things broken.
So I would have suspected that the side stand switch would have been the culprit except for the conditions of shutdown being somewhat repeatable with temperature but not consistent.
Doesn't matter, but yours is just a puzzle I found interesting. One thing I learned as an EE is never to do more than one fix when diagnosing a problem...and if doesn't solve the problem...put it back the way it was and try the next thing (hard to do with crud in the throttle bodies). Also never discount a coincidence of two or more unconnected things broken.
deilenberger
A bozo on the bus
A more interesting question to me - why was there that much crud in the throttle-bodies at only 32,500 miles? I checked and cleaned mine at around 65,000 miles (once I got the clamp pliers), and there was virtually no crud or buildup. With the stepped design of the TB throat, the butterfly fully closes at idle, relying only on the steppers and idle passages to provide air at idle. This should make buildup virtually a non-issue as far as performance. Does this bike use a lot of oil? Is it often overfilled with oil? Those are about the only reason I can think of for seeing buildup on the inside of the throttle bodies.
I would be more suspicious of a gummed up stepper that isn't responding quickly enough when the throttle is fully closed, and I can see how this might be temperature related.
The stepper valves do have a threaded shaft that moves the tapered tip in and out of the air-idle passage. If you take one out, you can slide the cover over the shaft back a bit, and you'll find the shaft is greased with some white grease. On mine the grease seemed to have hardened up a bit, so I cleaned as much as I could out using a Q-tip and carb cleaner, then regreased the shafts with some Redline Synthetic Moly grease I have (seemed about the right thickness, and is excellent at high temperatures.)
Here is a photo of the cover pulled back:
And what to do:
Note the slight wear marks on the tip in this photo:
I replaced this one with a spare I had that showed no sign of wear. These marks were deep enough that I could feel them using my thumbnail.. Will the the marks make a difference? Doubtful, but I had the spare so in it went.
One simple test of the steppers IS the GS911 calibration routine. If you activate it, it moves the steppers to fully closed then open - twice. As this happens you can listen, and feel the action of the stepper. If one is significantly quieter then the other, or seems slower - that one probably bears attention.
A warning - DO NOT activate the steppers when removed from the throttle-body. The shaft will unscrew itself and according to what I've heard is near impossible to re-engage correctly.
I would be more suspicious of a gummed up stepper that isn't responding quickly enough when the throttle is fully closed, and I can see how this might be temperature related.
The stepper valves do have a threaded shaft that moves the tapered tip in and out of the air-idle passage. If you take one out, you can slide the cover over the shaft back a bit, and you'll find the shaft is greased with some white grease. On mine the grease seemed to have hardened up a bit, so I cleaned as much as I could out using a Q-tip and carb cleaner, then regreased the shafts with some Redline Synthetic Moly grease I have (seemed about the right thickness, and is excellent at high temperatures.)
Here is a photo of the cover pulled back:
And what to do:
Note the slight wear marks on the tip in this photo:
I replaced this one with a spare I had that showed no sign of wear. These marks were deep enough that I could feel them using my thumbnail.. Will the the marks make a difference? Doubtful, but I had the spare so in it went.
One simple test of the steppers IS the GS911 calibration routine. If you activate it, it moves the steppers to fully closed then open - twice. As this happens you can listen, and feel the action of the stepper. If one is significantly quieter then the other, or seems slower - that one probably bears attention.
A warning - DO NOT activate the steppers when removed from the throttle-body. The shaft will unscrew itself and according to what I've heard is near impossible to re-engage correctly.
cjack
I thought as you did about the clutch micro-switch. Then the tech at the local dealer explained to me how the switch should work. Not fully believing him I doubled checked in my repair manual and here is what it said in reference to the operational check of the clutch micro-switch:
Test
Move the kill switch to the centre position.
Select neutral.
Switch on the ignition.
Neutral telltale light "N" lights up.
Select a gear.
Neutral telltale light "N" goes out.
Press the starter button.
Starter does not operate.
Extend the side stand.
Pull the clutch lever.
Press the starter button.
Starter does not operate.
Retract the side stand.
Press the starter button without releasing the clutch lever.
Starter operates.
I am in total agreement about not taking anything for granted in reference to the stalling issue. With my 30 plus years as an aircraft mechanic I am amazed how the small little things, especially electronic, can cause intermittent problems. But what I can't get past is how my bike acted when the issue happened, it just shut down like the kill switch was pushed. However, I am just one stall away from being at step one all over again! I m sure you can agree when it comes to any issues with our bikes "anything can and will happen". The best I can hope for is someone giving me a place to start looking.
Scott D.
deilenberger
I purchased my used with 8,500 miles on her. So I can't vouch for anything like over service with the oil etc. Since I have owned the bike I do not believe I have over serviced the bike with oil. I have noticed that some oil will burn, but its very very slight and not any more than the 2000 R1200RT. I have had the idle actuators out and they were clean, no sludge noted. I will recheck the idle actuators and your graphics are great! They will be used and are appreciated.
Just so you know, I thought at first the issue was related to the idle actuators. I borrowed a GS911 and checked the actuators which passed at that time.
I have a Colorado trip planned in August and will look at the actuators after the trip and will let you know how they look.
Scott D.
I purchased my used with 8,500 miles on her. So I can't vouch for anything like over service with the oil etc. Since I have owned the bike I do not believe I have over serviced the bike with oil. I have noticed that some oil will burn, but its very very slight and not any more than the 2000 R1200RT. I have had the idle actuators out and they were clean, no sludge noted. I will recheck the idle actuators and your graphics are great! They will be used and are appreciated.
Just so you know, I thought at first the issue was related to the idle actuators. I borrowed a GS911 and checked the actuators which passed at that time.
I have a Colorado trip planned in August and will look at the actuators after the trip and will let you know how they look.
Scott D.
