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Which GPS to get?

550:

Same issue with the SD card--a 4x one; is it possible to delete all old maps and replace with new? Should we really have to use supplemental media for something the unit is sold to do? It can easily take 10 minutes to load maps and music. Is it a real answer to go to a 10x card? I am truly asking.

The interface on the 550 is downright user hostile. To advert that this unit was "designed by bikers for bikers," well, they were probably on a poker/beer run and getting drunker by the moment.
No qwerty keyboard? Don't you just love spelling things out? And to get to motel or just fricking gas takes how many clicks?

I wish Apple or even Microsoft would make one, at least there would be something user configurable. Wouldn't it be great to have a user configurable GUI? One click from your route and you can choose motels or gas or two or three other items you put there. Base Camp? A real joke, a mean one at that. RoadTrip was no great shakes, but it was easier to use than BaseCamp.
I for one have NO loyalty to Garmin; when a better product from someone else arises, I am there. If that doesn't happen when I need to replace, I am going to by a cheap one and use a shower cap when it rains. The newer ones are a little better in the user friendly dept. A little.

Oh, and sometimes, just out of the blue the gps powers down. Poltergeists? Powers on fine and now we wait another 10 minutes for the SD card to load
I write down turn by turn directions and put them in my map case, along with a paper map. To rely on, at least, my 550 is foolhardy.

My 660 does all the things you complain of. Get out the dark ages, and upgrade.
 
I checked every available setting and there was no load to PC. I finally got it to work on my PC by using the old Map Updater as per the recommendation by a Garmin tech, but cannot for the life of me figure out how to get maps I purchased on the Macbook Air I use for travel. Every time I do the install with Express, it just reloads them to the device and leaves the "basic" map set with no detail in the computer. I've asked Garmin to either explain to me how to do that or refund what I paid. If they refuse, I'll contest the charge with my credit card company.

There was a version of Express released that did not have the load to computer option. Supposedly their next release was going to fix that. Not sure if that was released or not. I simply use their mapinstall utility and it works fine uploading to the unit and the pc.

As to routes not being the same on the gps as how you create them, this is a longstanding issue. A number of things come to mind:

1. the map set the route is created in needs to be the same as the one on the unit.
2. The "activity" the route is created in needs to be the same as the one on the unit.
3. The avoidances and any custom avoidances the route is created in needs to be the same as the ones on the unit.
4. There need to be enough shaping points used to keep it where you want it.
5. You have to zoom in and examine the route on the PC to assure that waypoints are actually on the roads instead of "200 yards off an exit" for example.
6. Any speed settings for types of road the route is created in needs to be the same as the ones on the unit.
7. All navigation settings the route is created in need to be the same as the ones on the unit.

Get all of those things set properly and it should work fine.
 
Nope. I did all that long ago. Doesn't resolve the problem.

I'm not casting aspersions, but really all of them? You have to check after each map and sw update, too, which is easy to overlook.

If yes to the above, I suspect you have a corrupted file of some kind and I would try to download fresh GPS (not map) files from Garmin; they can supply you with a link for that. It is also possible that the map file on your GPS has been corrupted, and I would delete and replace that, too.
 
It's happened across multiple units.

Hmm. If every GPS does the same thing, then it points to the source, meaning your PC. That would me me want to uninstall and then re-install all the garmin stuff.

However, are you sure you are using enough via and/or shaping points to tack your route to the roads you want them on? I find that to be key. A slight difference in routing algorithm between BaseCamp and the GPS would send the route differently. I lock mine down with plenty of shaping points. Do not expect that a route with just a starting point and ending point will route identically because they will not. Shaping points are necessary.


Week before last Garmin had me do a master re-set. When that didn't work they said they'd replace it for $60. Since that would be the fifth replacement of the unit in three years, I decided it wasn't worth betting $60 of my money that the next one would work.

A master reset might have eliminated things you might have done to the unit, but I would still download all new software for the GPS. That's free, but I think they have to tell you the link for it.
 
At first I hated BaseCamp and clung to MapSource until a conversation with Garmin where the tech said words to the effect routing will be screwed up if you use MapSource because the street segment format is designed for BaseCamp now. I no longer trust any "ROUTE" in either product and make all my routes (not to be confused with a ROUTE) as tracks. If you look closely at your routes you can have bow tie looking things anywhere you have clusters of roads, like cities. You can clean them up as a ROUTE but a track is easier to get exactly what you want and then you can make your ROUTE. It also pays to look closely at a ROUTE when loaded and see if any extra points have been added. I've had that happen and had to delete them to get back to what I want. ANY time you recalc after you have loaded a longer ROUTE, it will change the ROUTE from what you put in. If you get a route from a buddy, and you don't have the same map version and you don't have the same configuration exactly the same, you and your buddy most likely won't follow the same path. Using tracks will fix that issue too. If your buddy sends you his track, you can make sure the ROUTE you make follows the same path he sent you.
 
That's good to know but it still leaves open the question of what, for the love of Pete, were Garmin's management and software engineers thinking to push a product that forces the user community to search for convoluted work arounds to basic design flaws, whether loading new maps using the old installer rather than the new one, or this work around? Seems to be it would be simpler and better business to develop functional software in the first place rather than rely on your customers to find ways to work through your mistakes.
Just to get myself in trouble, a place I have dwelt in for too many years, I have to say that most people don't ever see the problems. When Garmin had the GPS45 and other early units you couldn't make a route that crossed itself or returned to the starting point. The new stuff is infinitely better than what was out there even in the Quest and GPS IV when it comes to routing. Routing AIN'T easy. There is a branch of mathematics called topology, I believe, that deals with it in pretty clean examples. Our road network AIN'T clean. I make maps for 911 centers and companies like NavTech buy my data to build those maps. My streets are pretty good, but lots of other places make crap. One person may draw a map where a road going under an interstate actually connects to the interstate. Can you see how that will screw up a routing algorithm? All the roads must me marked and weighted correctly. The reason I mentioned in my previous post about using tracks is that you can adjust your path without all the assumptions that a routing algorithm imposes on you. IMO, don't be too hard on those software guys, they have to make their six figure salaries someway.
 
So, is the goal just to bitch about Garmin, or to figure out how to put routes on your unit that go where you expect them to?
 
I just now uploaded a route from Base Camp that was 358 miles with 40 waypoints. It showed up on the device as 367. If I recalculate, it shows up as 356. I am 100% certain that when I turn the GPS back on and load the route tomorrow morning, it will be something different.

Use lots of shaping points, not lots of waypoints, because you may bump into waypoint limits on your GPS unit. The Insert tool. Just tack it down along key roads. It is something you have to work with to develop a feel for. I advise you to make a track of the route and have that showing in a different color so you can see where your route goes astray and then use shaping points to keep it in place.
 
You can also just put in a start and a finish and let basecamp route it, then use the insert tool to shift the route over to roads you like. Escape gets out and ctl+z is undo. Takes some time to get the knack of it, but if you have your basecamp preferences set up to how you like them so that the way it calculates is pretty close to what you want, then run along it with the insert tool and stitch it down or move it to the roads you like. Until you get a feel for it, make a contrasting color route so you can spot deviations easily. If you can see both on your gps unit screen, so much the better, so you can find out just how much adding of via points it takes. The video tutorials are decent, too. This one is not bad: http://youtu.be/b9Q2U3McvjM There are also some big threads on using basecamp andgps's on ADVrider in the Laying Down Tracks subforum.
 
But I take your point that it's hard but here's an idea: don't push out software that isn't functional. And there is no excuse for taking common functions that could be done with 2 or 3 clicks in Map Source and making them take 7 or 8 in Base Camp. A freshman in software engineering knows better than that.
Did you ever hear of a little company by the name of MicroSoft??? They do that all the time. Vista was a good example. EVERY piece of software I have ever operated has its problems. (My staff and I use a GIS software package called ArcMAP, we have ten copies at $9K each, it has more bugs than the Amazon rain forest. It's pretty much the only game in town so we make it work) Emoto made a really good point, do you want to bitch about the software or make it do what you want/need it to do.

Bottom line in this is that Garmin does claim wondrous things about the routing capabilities of its units. Those claims tend to be inaccurate if you take them at face value. You have to work to build good routes. It isn't plug and play like Garmin would like you to believe. I make Routes that WORK, period. I've already told you how. #1 use tracks to build exactly what you want. #2 examine and standardize what options you set (shortest distance, no uturns, etc). That goes for the unit too because it does a calc on load. #3 check the loaded route against BaseCamp for bogus points and routing in critical area. #4 always have the same map version in BaseCamp and in the unit. #5 use BaseCamp and get rid of MapSource if you are using maps that have been updated in the last year or two. #6 NEVER recalc after hitting "GO". If you want to build back road maps and don't do the things I mentioned above, stand by for disappointment. There WILL BE times when the lady in the box will try to send up an exit ramp and then down an on ramp when all you need to do is go straight. That is the map has bad data. That's life with maps. Since almost all GPS maps come from two sources, NavTech and Atlas, you will have problems from time to time. It ain't perfect but it ain't useless either.
 
Rock,
You and I are on the same page. If I spend an hour making a route in BaseMap, what good does it do if it doesn't follow the exact path I defined on the ride. I was having the same issue IIRC two updates ago. I found that my unit had two map files on it in the SD card. Had to spend some time with Garmin support finding what files were supposed to be, delete everything and reload. IMO, the upgrade process is really fubar'ed. Prior to straightening out the problem, I would get to an area with multiple intersections and parallel roads and my route would shoot jaggies all over the place and usually just got lost. I have not gone on a long ride since going to BaseCamp, so I will be sure to check it out areas where I had problems in the past. I did see that in places like Wilksboro, NC and Oakhill, WV BaseMap wanted to create off the wall spaghetti lines which looked like bow ties, ran back on themselves and in general were a cluster of incorrect lines. I fixed them but I'm going to load them into my Zumo and see how it handles them during the load calc. On that subject, I don't see how Garmin could load a route without a calc of some kind. Programmatically it must have something like a gpx or dxf transfer file format or loading a route would take forever. If your routes recalc mid trip without your intervention, then you are absolutely right, Garmin has a serious flaw in their code.
Rod

PS - I just did routes through Oak Hill and Wilksboro. Both were made by using a start and stop point, then changing the route to go where I wanted it to go. I loaded them in my Zumo, it calculated them and they were exactly the same path in both the Zumo and BaseMap. I do have these areas in a planned route from SC to OH and that should be a good test. Was supposed to leave yesterday but I'm waiting for the monsoons to abate.
 
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Zumo 220.

How old are your maps? Older maps used a different road segmenting method, so may produce weird results with routes made in newer software.

You have auto re-calc turned off? tools > settings > navigation

FWIW, I like to use Automotive mode and "faster time" as my navigation settings because I find it produces much more predictable results than motorcycle mode, which just seems to randomly add more roads into a route without thought. What mode are you using? Try it with both the GPS and BaseCamp in Automotive mode. Make sure the route has been recalculated at least one time in that mode.

Tools > Settings > Map > Map Info (just to confirm that you really are building the route in the same version the gps has.)
 
2014.1 on both. And I learned to turn auto-recalc off during my first year of riding when I wasn't watching carefully, missed a turn, and it decided to re-route me on a dirt logging road over a mountain.

Jeeezze, no sense of adventure. :stick
 
2014.1 on both. And I learned to turn auto-recalc off during my first year of riding when I wasn't watching carefully, missed a turn, and it decided to re-route me on a dirt logging road over a mountain.

Yeah, I had my share of that, too. :eek

So, Automotive mode and faster time (on both BaseCamp and GPS)?
 
How old are your maps? Older maps used a different road segmenting method, so may produce weird results with routes made in newer software.
This is also why you do not want to use MapSource anymore. Within a short time after the release of BaseCamp, they stopped updating MapSource.

Rock, when I had the problem with different maps, I had to wipe things slick on both the SD and the unit. That isn't as simple as it may sound. I had to get a Garmin tech to explain what I had to do. It wasn't documented well, or at all. Something to keep in mind is that not all of their techs are top of the line either.
 
Rock, when I had the problem with different maps, I had to wipe things slick on both the SD and the unit. That isn't as simple as it may sound. I had to get a Garmin tech to explain what I had to do. It wasn't documented well, or at all. Something to keep in mind is that not all of their techs are top of the line either.
Yup - 50% are average or below.. :)

I tend to leave auto-recalc on since I rather often divert from a calculated route, and want the GPS to think about how to go from where I am, not where I was supposed to be. To keep it "on-track" requires some planning beforehand. An example is the Blue Ridge Parkway, that I travel rather often for some reason (odd considering it starts 300 miles from me..)..

In order to keep the auto-routing from taking me off the BRP and onto some local road it thinks is quicker (or shorter), I added in waypoints all along the length of the BRP. To make them useable - I found they have to be named something like "BRP01" "BRP02" "BRP3", etc.. in order and I make certain there is at least one of these waypoints between every entrance/exit of the Parkway.

To make up a BRP route, I'll then enter my starting point off the Parkway, and add in all the BRP## waypoints for the length of the parkway I want to travel, then add in my desired end point (perhaps someplace to stop overnight.) I'll let Doofus calculate the route. Doing it this way I end up with successfully routing that can be used in MapSource, BaseCamp or on the GPS itself. They all will come up with the same route. That works, it's a tad tedious, but once the waypoints are made up, they can be saved and used with multiple routes, so it's only necessary to create them once.

YMMV, but I doubt it..
 
Tyre is better than Basecamp

I grew frustrated with Basecamp before I could figure it out. I use Tyre instead. Check it out at http://www.tyretotravel.com/ It uses the Google Maps engine and makes itineraries and custom POI files. It's still not as straightforward as it could be but it's pretty good.
 
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