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Please vote if you think the MOA should have a more proactive stance with BMW NA

Should the MOA have a proactive roll in presenting its members concerns to BMW NA?

  • I would LIKE the MOA to be an advocate for its members concerning possible manufacture defects.

    Votes: 57 39.6%
  • I would NOT like the MOA to be an advocate for its members concerning possible manufacture defects

    Votes: 87 60.4%

  • Total voters
    144
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+1

It won't work in my opinion, because there is no incentive, carrot or stick, for BMWNA to deal with the MOA on these issues. Want to play hardball? Just imagine the actions BMWNA could take to hurt the MOA if they so desired.

You don't have to believe me but with 3 decades in this business and having worked with approximately 15 OEM's through the years I just might have a little bit of insight with these guys. Literally having a regional rep tell me he doesn't care what I think AFTER having caught him in an out and out lie says it all. They truly don't care because NO ONE is willing to stand up against them. Individuals don't mean crap to these guys! Learn to have empathy with others who have legitimate problems. Real problems they can't get addressed. This is a company that ignored federal recall procedures 15 out of 16 times and 15 were motorcycles. Think about that please. Think about what is right and not what BMW will do to the MOA. Do what is right. Stick up for those truly in need of support. Real problems, real people, have empathy and try to get help for those in need. You may be one of them someday. Don't believe me. Speak with others who have worked with BMW on hundreds of issues over the course of time. See what they have to say before you're so quick in worrying about BMW. Get a dealer principle to speak off the record. It just may be an eye opener.

I have repeatedly praised their product many, many times. I have even stood up for them when it was obvious a customer was going overboard and not giving them the opportunity to correct the problem. I have also criticized them when it has been appropriate. I have presented a fair and balanced story from both sides of the fence. Are we not allowed to present 2 sides to the story without fear of retribution? Is that the BMW you've come to know and love? One thing you personally don't know with certainty is how honest I am being other than me telling you. I don't expect anyone to believe me just because my lips are moving. I do expect intelligent people to do the appropriate research into what I'm saying. You might be surprised as to what you learn. I do expect other BMW riders in a BMW owners group to have empathy for their fellow riders when justified. Not for every nickel and dime or couple hundred dollar problem that exists. But real problems that go well beyond anticipated rates of failure. Think a 6-cylinder that smokes worse than a 2-stroke. Could the customer have done something to cause that. Of course! But what if he didn't? What if it was your bike? I do expect others to give possible consideration to someone with 30 years experience who has presented a two-sided story from the moment I joined MOA. I don't present garbage and in fact have supported some of the statements with stories from the Wall Street Journal. If what I'm saying is correct every member of this organization should be filled with righteous anger.

Believe it or not you can still enjoy riding your BMW! I do. I love my bike and I put thousands of trouble free miles on it. I love RT's; think their one of the best bikes on the planet. But please have empathy for your fellow riders that need help in the form of serious numbers of people. NA is not going to crack over individuals. We have the means to amass thousands through this group. But if no one cares nothing will get done for many of these people. Someone needs to be on the side of people with legitimate problems where failures are much higher than anticipated. That someone should be us.

And then come back to me and let's talk.
 
Big boy

I am a big boy and can fight my own battles. I have yet to lose against a supplier of a defective product and that includes GM, BMW, VW, Volvo, Mercedes and Ford.
 
I have been trying to learn more about what the BMW CCA person actually does. In the literature I have read the position is described as "Ombudsmen to help with dealer issues." Now that may put them in a position to go to bat with BMW NA, I don't know at this time.

I am asking for purely for information and clarification. Can someone put some actual information about what the BMW CCA Ombudsman's role is in reality or point me in the direction of literature source or person?

The BMWCCA website should offer a contact email application at http://www.bmwcca.org/contactform
 
Mika, as you may be aware I have been a strong supporter of advocacy. Having said this the fact that advocacy lost so big what's the point of looking for information?...snip

The very statement someone made about not wanting to get involved in a combative stance says it all. For some reason we are deemed combative even if the issue is legitimate. Members really need to look at this statement and determine how much sense it makes. ...snip

To the first underlined question: purely my personal edification and understanding. It is not all about you or the argument you are engaged in. People have commented on the CCA's ombudsman. I am curious and want to learn more for myself. I do that very often around here and elsewhere.

To the second underlined point: You offered no answer to my posted question. Rather, you argue with me and used the remainder of your post, and several others, to launch a diatribes on those you don't agree with, then ask us to reflect how much sense it makes to think of you and some of your allies as combative? Really?
 

Randy may have waited quite a long time in an attempt to repair his motorcycle. But his problem certainly seemed to be legitimate. I had a customer with a seal problem as well. Like clockwork this seal would leak every 8k to 12k. At some point BMW advised her she was on her own. Both the customer and her husband owned RT's. Both extremely well maintained. The reality was BMW needed to replace the motor. Instead we replaced seals every so often. Until it was no longer possible to do so under warranty. In BMW's defense they did offer a single instance of goodwill but it took them so long to come to that decision that we did the repair at no charge for the customer. Then BMW advised me they couldn't guarantee the offer of goodwill for the next occurrence.

This is being done from memory so it may not be 100% detail correct but the leak history and the ultimate non-warranty repair is factual. In this instance the customer was putting on approximately 10k to 12k a year. So she would have the leak occur annually we'll call it. At some point towards the end of the warranty they were not putting on as many miles therefore the wife went beyond the 2 year parts warranty prior to the leak starting again.

Now leak #1 just happens to be leak #1. No big deal, just repair it. Leak #2 occurs and we're wondering whether the shop mis-installed the seal. Always a possibility of course and BMW should certainly not have to pay for the repair if that is the case. But difficult to know with certainty. Just so happens the bike had gone approximately the same mileage as leak #1. A bit odd if we had mis-installed but hey anything is possible. Seal #2 now installed under warranty. Leak happens yet again after approximately the same mileage and now we're getting near the end of the warranty. Seal is replaced third time and BMW is offering no more than the repair. Annual mileage drops due to a variety of reasons but no unhappiness with the vehicle. Next thing you know not only is the bike out of warranty the repair is out of warranty as well. And, the leak comes back yet again in the same approximate mileage.

In retrospect leak #3 should have been the decision point. I wasn't working at this store at that point in time so I am not familiar enough with what occurred to have a valid comment. I only know the end result. But, I was present when BMW pulled the plug. Both the husband and wife were exceptionally pleasant people to deal with and were certainly not the confrontational type. BMW had service history on the unit so why mess with these people? The point in all this? Sometimes you have legitimate circumstances where it can be reasonable to allow time to pass. The next thing you know it's too late. You can't be running around with a hair trigger for every problem that might occur.

Randy may have been guilty of multiple threads and perhaps waiting too long. But he also brought up valid points. Rather than condemn him IMO he is exactly the type of owner that could use this club's support. Assuming there was a support mechanism in place.
 
Billy, it appears you are the primary "horse beater" here...and quickly becoming the last. We are all well informed of your 30 plus years of more than successful business experience and opinionated stance on customer service and WHO the customer is (as well as who you think as a valid opinion or makes an acceptable statement), you've told us many times. Perhaps that's why the beating continues? However Billy, the horse is "dead".
 
Billy, it appears you are the primary "horse beater" here...and quickly becoming the last. We are all well informed of your 30 plus years of more than successful business experience and opinionated stance on customer service and WHO the customer is (as well as who you think as a valid opinion or makes an acceptable statement), you've told us many times. Perhaps that's why the beating continues? However Billy, the horse is "dead".

Your opinion is exactly why this club may never make an attempt to support people in need.
 
Well, if the horse is dead, so be it. If the MOA decides that being a voice for the members is not "their thing", then let's just wait for membership renewal time and act approbiately. Let's leave the club to the mileage slaves, the rally fanatics and those who can't wait for the next report of a trip on a GS to South America or Tibet.
 
Allright, it looks like this has finally run its course. We closed this thread initially but decided to reopen it for more discussion. That has gone on now for quite some time. The OP has basically moved on, the polling seems to reflect what the general membership is thinking, and many, many horses have been beat pretty severely. So, the thread will now be closed.

I will say that this subject has gotten some attention and I understand will be part of discussions at the rally among staff members, etc. No real details, but maybe that is the positive out of this whole thing.

Thanks...
 
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