Several persons here have been having a serious conversation that contained various worthy points of view(some I agreed with , others not so much & some with no bearing on the thread but OK too) while a few seem to revile in being members of the "above the subject" crowd, seeing this as a nonsensical discussion that they are (I wonder why?) willing to take the time to read but unwilling to offer credibility too the comments of others. Even my "curmugeonly" self finds it demeaning to do so.
This IS a "forum" after all, -like's been said , if it doesn't suit you, walk away from the mouse...
"If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.
Absolutely not interested in this organization becoming an advocacy group.
Let me say, I have suffered the mechanical pitfalls of BMW ownership and even left the fold for 5 years after being discouraged with yet another BMW. Multiple spline eating episodes, multiple rear drive failures, transmission failure, rear main failure, slave cylinder failures and a number of nagging little failures have been a part of my BMW ownership.
Would I like to see a better product produced by BMW, of course! I just don't feel this organization is the proper vehicle to accomplish that task.
I dealt with each setback on each bike quickly with my local dealer or on my own and felt I was adequately compensated, partly because I did not have any unrealistic expectations of BMW fixing stuff out of the warranty period.
Let's keep my bike and situation out of the conversation and just focus on the forum.
Greg was kind enough to PM me his cell number so I called him on Sunday. Greg is a very nice man and is a very capable President of the BMW MOA. Thanks Greg for devoting your time and energy to the MOA. I enjoyed talking to him and he made some very valid points concern BMW's and their tendency to not want to publicly admit fault in most circumstance. But that how "backdoor channel" diplomacy can be a better way to get the problems solved and a way for BMW NA to "save face". The only problem is that 95% of the members do not know how to access the "backdoor channel" so they are stuck with talking to the 1-800 customer service reps and that is as far up the corporate ladder that they every get.
I agree with Greg entirely on this matter and most of what we discussed. Several members have suggested recently that having a tab on the home page with contact information for BMW NA would be very helpful and I agree.
If we have a tab with the Regional Service Reps name, number and email that would suffice for most of the situations. I have already posted Anthony Cavanaugh's
(pre-litigation and customer buy-back manager) email and direct line.
Let's work together to figure out a way to help members when they have a problem and not just drink the BMW Kool Aid. I also have a f650gs single that I have never had a bit of problem with so I am not anti BMW, but I am anti bad customer relations.
Take a look at David Telfer's K1600 and it blowing smoke like a mosquito sprayer. David lives in Australia where they do not have lemon laws. This is a post from he made concerning is bike. Check out his link on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHDpj0LrVuM David would love to have a forum like ours to share ideas and find solutions to problems we have.
David posted this about his bike "BMW says it has 3 cracked pistons around oil ring area. I am still waiting on new short motor to be shipped out from Germany. They cannot expained why it has happened. They are NOT UNSTOPPABLE. Is it unreasonable to expect a loan bike??? Been back to the dealers 3 times now and over 11 weeks. I expect an extension on warranty and I guess that will be another battle with BMW. I will have 3 to 4 months without a bike that I have been paying registration and insurance on and the warranty period running out"
I bet David would love to know how to get in touch with someone with BMW that can solve this problem.
Defects and Lemon Bikes happen, no big deal. But when the manufacture stonewalls the customer then it is a big deal.
Several of the members posts are always well thought and and very well written(I am not in that group).
Paul Glaves has been a big help with my situation but more importantly he always post intelligent and positive comments.
The same goes with Billy Walker and Greg Feeler.
I wish they would brain storm by email and phone and come up with the best solution possible for the forum and the members.
Thanks to all three of you.
"The discussion is about having someone who will act as an advocate without getting involved in the various standard every day threads."
Do you see this advocate responsibility to be performed in a paid or volunteer status?
What is your estimate of time this function will require on an annual basis?
Life # 71449
I feel bad for Randy and anyone else that doesn't get reasonable satisfaction in cases like this. I hope he and others like him get some satisfaction or at least peace of mind.
2) Required time? An unknown. By setting a few guidelines in place with maybe a couple of volunteers to ferret out what is hopefully the truth my concept would be that once the group of volunteers agrees the issue at hand is worthy of further pursuit with BMW the next action could be implemented. There are numbers of people who get pretty disturbed over complaints hitting the forum. Whether right or wrong and out of respect for the folks that don't want to see this stuff in the forum possibly setting up a column of some type would be appropriate. Or, maybe a dedicated thread that you could turn off if you so desire. And then the e-mail and Facebook campaign begins.
Important: I do NOT want to turn every issue into a serious problem. The intent is to determine the issues that deserve attention in order to get "right" done. Not to hurt and/or degrade BMW NA despite my own personal feelings on the company.
I don't know how rampant truly wronged BMW customers there are. I am assuming, mind you this is an assumption, that maybe a couple of hours a week would be enough. I really don't know.
Don Stanley; aka Chuy Medina "El Burrito Ballerina"
BMWMOA #24810; www.azbeemers.org/forum #89
Guess I'm one of the those reviling in being a member of the above the subject crowd; one of those who just does not get it. Could be true, or could be that I just expressed my opinion in a brief and succinct fashion. Mine is a valid opinion despite its brevity, certainly no less worthy than those who express themselves in a protracted manner, yet still find time to scold others if they dislike their opinion or method of expressing it. My point, this thread has run it's course.
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