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Thread: Need fellow members help in emailing BMW executives about my defective bike.

  1. #16
    Registered User LDB's Avatar
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    May buy Moto Guzzi instead. That was the subject line of my email to the three addresses. The text of the emails is:

    My plans are to buy a new bike this year. I'm really drawn to the F800GT. I'd just about decided to finalize my decision when I read in the MOA forum about an ongoing issue on a 2005 R1200GS with an ongoing problem with seal failures. The bike has had numerous ongoing failures of the exact same nature. The owner has been told the only solution is to replace the engine or replace the bike. The amount offered in compensation is far far below the value of the bike and frankly insulting. My resolve to buy my new BMW has significantly weakened out of concern over the support I can expect to receive or perhaps more accurately not receive should I have a problem. The Moto Guzzi on my suspect list has strengthened it's position. I hope to soon hear of a positive resolution in this case so that I and all other potential buyers can feel secure in our choices.


    Hope that helps some. Good luck.
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  2. #17
    Certifiable Old Fart beemerdons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    I applaud you standing up for your principles. I don't believe that you will have success in moving this mountain, though. BMW seems to have taken the position of warrantying this particular issue for as long as you own this bike. If you choose to tolerate the pain that may cause you, that's up to you. Perhaps you might find a more pragmatic approach of more personal benefit in the long run.

    Best of luck on whichever path you choose to travel.
    +1, Gunny; I sent out the letters, best of luck to you Randy!
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  3. #18
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    Thanks LBD and Beemerdons for sending out emails

    Billy Walker sent the following which is a very well written letter.

    Randy, the following has been sent to everyone involved:

    Mr. Holdford has explained his unit's issues to those of us in the BMW MOA a number of times. I must say I feel the buy-back offer of $1,241.17 is inappropriate assuming Mr. Holdford's story is accurate.

    As of today's date: Thursday, June 06, 2013 the retail value of his unit appears to far exceed BMW's buy-back offer as per both NADA and Kelley Blue Book. I am well aware there are many sources to arrive at supposed retail value of any given vehicle but at the same time your offer appears to be substantially low. These are numbers that I arrived at today:

    As per NADA Thursday, June 6, 2013 - Retail value approximately $5,880 to $7,740
    As per Kelley Blue Book, June 6, 2013 - Retail value approximately $9,210

    Assuming Mr. Holdford's story is an accurate one I feel the gentleman is entitled to a far more realistic offer of buy-back. Put yourselves into this gentleman's shoes and what he has gone through. Is this really the BMW way of handling issues for what appears to be a poorly manufactured product? I personally know of another gentleman (name can be provided upon request) that went through repeated seal failures as well on a R1200RT.

    I assume it is not BMW's intent to sell defective product. When issues arise that appear to be the fault of the unit's production it would be appropriate to handle the issue in a moral and ethical manner. If a normal warranty repair doesn't do the job perhaps BMW needs to investigate and do what is right. After all if BMW NA/BMW AG feels it is inappropriate to expense out such a repair can you image what the customer feels like?

    In closing, if this gentleman is telling the truth I feel it is the correct thing to do in order to reimburse him a market-justified refund. It is my sincere hope that you will come to the conclusion that handling this issue in a respectable manner is something that is morally and ethically the correct thing to do.

    Thank you for your consideration.

    Billy Walker


    Randy, I wish you the best but fear the worst. If you are able to get market value for the motorcycle you are THE man!! Best of luck!

  4. #19
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beemerdons View Post
    Randy if you can get the BMW Corporation to do things "the right way" then you are a much better man than all of the rest of us Gunga Din, I have ridden BMW continuously since March of 1969 and I have never seen BMW AG or BMW NA put the customer first - NEVER/EVER!

    Trying to teach the BMW Corporation to do the right thing is exactly the same thing as trying to teach a pig how to sing: It is a complete and total waste of your time, plus it annoys the living hell out of the pig! jes' sayin' and nuff said!
    Then why buy their products? After reading their response, which basically threatened those that emailed on his behalf that they wouldn't get their warranty claims processed, why should we reward their arrogance?
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  5. #20
    Certifiable Old Fart beemerdons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    Then why buy their products? After reading their response, which basically threatened those that emailed on his behalf that they wouldn't get their warranty claims processed, why should we reward their arrogance?
    Mi Amigo ponch1, the reason I keep buying BMW is due to my loyalty to BMW MOA and specifically to the hundreds - possibly thousands - of BMW Friends I have met through attending the Annual MOA International Rally almost every year since 1979, BMWRA Annual Rallies and regional MOA and RA rallies.

    I no longer buy BMW for reliability or factory support (or lack of!), that is why there are two Yamaha FJR 1300's in my garage alongside my many Beemers: A 2003 with over 100K on the odo and my 2013 FJR, with Yamaha products you just change the oil/filter and keep racking up the miles; not with BMW!
    Don Stanley; aka Chuy Medina "El Burrito Ballerina"
    BMWMOA #24810; www.azbeemers.org/forum #89

  6. #21
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beemerdons View Post
    Mi Amigo ponch1, the reason I keep buying BMW is due to my loyalty to BMW MOA and specifically to the hundreds - possibly thousands - of BMW Friends I have met through attending the Annual MOA International Rally almost every year since 1979, BMWRA Annual Rallies and regional MOA and RA rallies.

    I no longer buy BMW for reliability or factory support (or lack of!), that is why there are two Yamaha FJR 1300's in my garage alongside my many Beemers: A 2003 with over 100K on the odo and my 2013 FJR, with Yamaha products you just change the oil/filter and keep racking up the miles; not with BMW!
    I don't know Don. After making a threat to people that want to help Randy, well, it's almost criminal. Read their response. I am a little shocked at the response. It's one thing to say, you know, we made our offer and that is it. It's another thing to say, if your friends don't stop complaining, they may have problems if they need assistance. If that isn't the biggest FU, I don't know what is. I guess it'll give me something to blog about. Would HD behave this way?
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  7. #22
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    The administrators saw fit to delete a post I made here that was from the BMW face book page because of my retort on that page and not here. I find that BS. I am done here and done with BMW. I've never seen such censorship and uptightedness. It seems MOA is worried what the mother ship will think. Good luck.
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  8. #23
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    Good point ponch1, their stupid response might end up going viral.

    I bet someone on the BMW facebook teams gets their butt chewed off for sending out that response. But then maybe not, that is just the German attitude, them being "the superior race and all".

    Let's keep that loving and caring response alive on social media.

    BMW Motorrad: Hi Randy, thanks for your opinion on the situation. We have provided what we feel is a reasonable solution and you have declined to accept it. We ask you to refrain from encouraging other fans to email members of the BMW staff because it may limit the response time for your fellow Motorrad community members who may have a problem or concern that needs solving. You are free to post on the main BMW Motorrad page however in future, if you continue to promote your situation on other BMW Motorrad users posts, we will have to delete them.

    All the best
    Your BMW Motorrad Facebook Team

  9. #24
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    The administrators saw fit to delete a post I made here that was from the BMW face book page because of my retort on that page and not here. I find that BS. I am done here and done with BMW. I've never seen such censorship and uptightedness. It seems MOA is worried what the mother ship will think. Good luck.
    Ponch -

    Posting the facebook info was fine. It was your other reference in your post that got the post kicked.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
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  10. #25
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Ponch -

    Posting the facebook info was fine. It was your other reference in your post that got the post kicked.
    And what does that have to do with here? I think you deleted it to avoid any repercussions with the mother ship. May be you should get a job working for Obama. You'd fit in.

    My quote here showed a veiled threat from BMW to anyone that emailed on Mr Holdford's behalf. I think that needs airing regardless of whether you think my post elsewhere not on this forum was over the top. It show pusillanimy on the MOA's part.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by espressoforyou View Post
    Anthony Cavanaugh has been a pleasure to work with and always follows up promptly with my inquiries. Even if I don't agree with his decisions I think he is an asset to Motorrad USA.

    All Anthony has to do is say that he will match the $4,000 trade-in offer as part of a goodwill offering and I would probably do the deal. All I am asking BMW to do is to solve the leaking seal problems for good or replace the engine or make up the difference in the trade-in offered from Bloodworth and what a non-defective bike is worth.

    Anthony says that "I have an unrepairable bike and the only solution is to replace the motor". It is not my fault the the bike came defective from the factory and I should not be penalized for their mistake.

    Defects happen, no big deal. It is how you own up to the defect that reveals what kind of company you are.
    Anthony Cavanaugh and his fellow employees are nothing more than Corporate Talking Heads, CTH for short. CTH's are what allow corporate big wig's to screw you when they feel it is appropriate. There is such a thing as right and wrong and when a company performs wrong they get away with it if the employees cooperate. Because most folks need a job wrong gets passed along easy as pie.

    If employees could only be empowered to stand up and do what is right most all of the wrongs would disappear. Instead, employees that take action, a.k.a. whistle blowers, are thrown under the bus with all sorts of sordid tales as to why they lost their position. BMW NA is filled to the brim with CTH's and they all care far more about their paycheck then doing what is right. BMW NA is a disgrace.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    And what does that have to do with here? I think you deleted it to avoid any repercussions with the mother ship. May be you should get a job working for Obama. You'd fit in.

    My quote here showed a veiled threat from BMW to anyone that emailed on Mr Holdford's behalf. I think that needs airing regardless of whether you think my post elsewhere not on this forum was over the top. It show pusillanimy on the MOA's part.
    Ponch, are you saying BMW replied with veiled threats? I never saw this post. Wouldn't surprise me in the least as I had one of their sales rep's lie to my face one time and he was lying about the condition of a customer's motorcycle. I called him on his lie right in the middle of the shop and then he turns to me and told me he doesn't give a sh** as to what I think. Never in 30 years have I had a rep do such a thing. NA is basically a collection of human garbage.

  13. #28
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Ponch -

    Posting the facebook info was fine. It was your other reference in your post that got the post kicked.
    If that is true, then you are just a control freak. Get a life.
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  14. #29
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    Administrator 20774, are you censoring what forum members can post.

    I would have thought that the main purpose of this forum is for the members to have free flowing conversation and to try and help each other out. If I am wrong please let me know.

    What exactly did ponch do that was inappropriate?

    Thanks for you help in understanding the issue.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Ponch -

    Posting the facebook info was fine. It was your other reference in your post that got the post kicked.
    I for one would like to see this post. Please repost and let the membership make the decision as to the appropriateness. Thank you.

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