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Those damn deer!

Bambi has brainwashed a lot of people.

Fripp Island, SC had a huge problem with their deer population. The response was to close the golf course for a week and invite bow hunters in. Several abattoirs volunteered their facilities to process the meat. Some pf the venison was given to the hunters; but most of it was given to the Department of Corrections and served in the staff and inmate dining facilities. I sat on a friend's deck with my buddy Steve Dalton and we took over 40 deer without leaving the deck. End of problem and a financial relief for the Dept. of Corrections.

Bald Head Island, NC had the same problem and the urban rich folks who built multi-million dollar homes there objected to that plan. Their solution? Dept. of Natural Resources will come in with dart guns and shoot the deer with birth control. "It is more humane". I wish I could dart some of these idiots before they can reproduce. You guessed it, there is still a huge deer population on Bald Head.

Today is Memorial Day. I will go to the service at the Battleship NC today at 11; then grill a venison flank steak. Just doing my part to help out.
 
Deer Vehicle Accidents

Oh boy - here I go.

If deer fit nicely into a category of speeding, texting or drinking drivers then someone would pay attention to the problem. Unfortunately there are typically 62,000 reported deer vehicle accidents a year in Michigan and no agency seems to be taking responsibility for reducing them. You can look at the Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT), Michigan State Police (MSP) and Department of Natural Resources (DNR) as being the three major players. Two of these agencies have an obligation to maintain a degree of public safety and the other manages the wildlife resource. Last time I looked at Michigan's numbers, 62,000 accidents, 10 of them were fatalities and I think all ten were riders. One I knew. Can anyone argue that 62,000 deer vehicle accidents per year is acceptable.

The MDNR just made grants for 50K to increase deer habitat. You never hear of funds used in selected areas for better fencing, increasing clearings from roads, animal overpasses/underpasses (the feds used to fund these but I do not recall them using that money here), better signage. Recently they extended a highway in northern Michigan (131) placing a 4 foot fence on the side of the Right of Way (ROW). What would be the incremental cost of an 8 foot fence? What does a 4 foot fence accomplish? It identifies the ROW line I think. That's about it. Reduce the areas they can cross major roads and people will slow down more when they know the areas where they are crossing the roads as opposed to the present situation of they are crossing everywhere.

Some people say that's going to cost a lot of money. Can you imagine how much 62,000 deer vehicle accidents are costing us in additional comprehensive insurance coverage (that the insurance companies are making money not losing money from), police department time writing reports, lost time from work getting your vehicle fixed, and lost deer license tourism revenue from hunters. Injuries for some and death for others.

My comment on the deer vehicle accident map is that a lot of that is driven (sincerely) by the number of drivers. The more drivers you have close to good habitat the more accident numbers you will have. The media is not very good at detailing the risk per driver/rider. An example would be here in Michigan an Associated Press article ran two years ago that Grand Rapids was the number one place in Michigan for a deer vehicle accident which is a true statement for a deer but not for a driver. Because of the number of drivers in the area (and farmland which is great habitat) they had a huge deer vehicle count. But when you look at the driver to deer accident ratio of lightly populated areas you see your chances go up of hitting a deer in many cases. In northern Michigan you had a greater chance per driver/rider of hitting a deer than Grand Rapids. If you did a quick read/evaluation of the press you would think you need to pay more attention in GR than lets say Grayling, MI. Not so. Needless to say you really need to pay attention everyplace.

I think the subject deserves greater examination by the powers to be in looking out for riders welfare, AMA etc.

My riding buddy Howard, since before grade school, and I were riding to Alaska a few years ago. He collected up a deer and was lucky to have two broken arms and two broken legs in various areas that were able to be screwed back together and he is fine today. But he isn't riding. Near the same time a rider out of the shop I frequent hung it up after having a deer run into the side of their LT. Months later the owner of an area drug store had a deer run over her at 2:00 in the afternoon on a Sunday ride. She passed away. It makes you wonder how many riders are not riding because of an accident or scare.

I have vented enough but I will leave you with two thoughts from my buddy's accident.

1. If you can't see the bottom of the ditch next to the road assume there is a deer down there waiting to run out and sweep your front wheel from under you.

2. There are a couple important things you can't do for yourself as a guy with two broken arms.


Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
# 71449 Life
 
...Reduce the areas they can cross major roads and people will slow down more when they know the areas where they are crossing the roads as opposed to the present situation of they are crossing everywhere....

I wish that were true but I wouldn't bet a penny on it.

Nobody in a cage slows down when they see a yellow deer sign on the road.

Heck, drivers don't even slow down when they see the flashing School Zone lights and a sidewalk full of six-year-old kids in front of an elementary school.

If there were real penalties for killing a deer / child / bicyclist in the street then people would drive more defensively and respectfully.
 
I don't think the 1 in 400 is accurate in Texas. East Texas is forested and I see A LOT of deer on or near the road.
 
So does the chart mean that there are that many more deer in the high risk states, or that those of us living in them just aren't any good at swerving? :D

It confuses me too. Living in KY, which is obviously next door to WV & also has a similarly large deer population, why the collision difference? I just read last week that KY is rated the #1 state for a trophy head too, thus we have many with large racks as well. I can see less collisions in my native state of KS based on straighter hwys., etc. but otherwise maps not logical.:scratch:lurk
 
One almost got me this morning riding along the Ohio river. I swear my mirror brushed its white tail. Thank god for good brakes!

My neighbors and I all take two a year. I'm very generous with the meat to family and friends and we still have about all we can eat in a year. According to dnr my land should support 1 deer. . . I take two a year and allow two other guys to hunt who usually take 1 apiece.

I think the only way you could get it under control is free processing for meat to shelters, etc. problem with that is the do-gooder idiots who protest and get the meat thrown out
 
One almost got me this morning riding along the Ohio river. I swear my mirror brushed its white tail. Thank god for good brakes!

My neighbors and I all take two a year. I'm very generous with the meat to family and friends and we still have about all we can eat in a year. According to dnr my land should support 1 deer. . . I take two a year and allow two other guys to hunt who usually take 1 apiece.

I think the only way you could get it under control is free processing for meat to shelters, etc. problem with that is the do-gooder idiots who protest and get the meat thrown out

I'm fairly certain that your state will allow farmers to cull the deer herds on their properties to limit crop damage. In my state, that's the rule and darn few farmers waste their time shooting deer or even ground hogs (our local variety of marmots). First of all, why would anyone want to handle a flea and tic covered deer carcass in the warm weather and just think of all those lovely nice houses that are built in the pleasant rural areas.........you had best pick your shot carefully.

BTW - I hunted deer for most of my life and, as a kid, hunted ground hogs with my father's purpose built varmint guns.
 
"...far better to kill them with a gun or bow and arrow, cleanly, fast, ..."

No, not really. There is nothing clean or fast about killing a deer with a bow and arrow. Deer can live in extreme pain for hours or days. It is quiet which, I believe, is why several communities around here (Eastern MA) allow bow and arrow "harvesting" but no guns. Like, it's OK to kill them but I don't want to hear it.

This is not to say I'd like to kill them with my car or bike. There is no convenient way to do a major thinning of the deer population. I'm afraid (literally) they'll be around for a long time, so caution and common sense is our means of survival. Avoid riding at dawn and dusk, if possible. Scan the roadside and into the woods, especially on country roads. At night watch for those blinking eyes along the road edge. At night, ride a safe distance behind a car that will extend your view ahead and perhaps clear a path.

Just when you thought smart phones were the biggest hazard, along comes Bambi and her family.

pete

Have you ever bow hunted???????

I've shot deer with a bow that literally died standing on their feet after my broadhead passed completely thru their heart and lung.

Ethical bow hunters would not take a shot they didn't believe would result in a quick and clean kill. And the hundreds of thousands of deer that are harvested by bow hunters annually mean that many less on the road which reduces deer/motorcycle collisions.

We need more hunters.
 
I wouldn't put too much faith it the chart's accuracy.

I find it hard to understand how things could be three times worse in Iowa than across the border in Illinois.

I live in Illinois and I don't find it hard to understand at all. I don't ride at night because of the plethora of deer in S. Illinois. It is not worth the risk to me.
 
Have you ever bow hunted???????

I've shot deer with a bow that literally died standing on their feet after my broadhead passed completely thru their heart and lung.

Ethical bow hunters would not take a shot they didn't believe would result in a quick and clean kill. And the hundreds of thousands of deer that are harvested by bow hunters annually mean that many less on the road which reduces deer/motorcycle collisions.

We need more hunters.

Bud,

Seriously, people don't have time for it. What we know of hunting is something that occurred after the conservation movement and the great depression. People had the time to hunt (the first week of deer season was a typical vacation period awarded based on seniority in many factories) and the game populations were maintained by the state agencies. Today, paid vacation is a disappearing commodity and the amount is ~10-days per year. In the 70's, the typical employee had 20~25-days of paid vacation after 25-yrs of service.

So, unless you're really hardcore or can live without an income, hunting is a major consumer of the precious available free time for most employees and, therefore, the number of participants has dwindled. Of course, then there is the land use issues and access and lease fees.....that some hunters advocate to maintain their hunting territory. Just try being a land owner near a group of avid hunters........everything is fine as long as you only let them hunt on your property. Let anyone hunt on your property and you'll have all sorts of fun come hunting season. I've never had an angry phone call from a Bambi lover, but I can count on at least 5 per deer season from angry hunters complaining about other hunters or making silly propositions ranging from asking to plant deer feed on my property (i.e., bait) to offering illegal drugs as lease payment.

Have a good one.
 
Bud,

Seriously, people don't have time for it. What we know of hunting is something that occurred after the conservation movement and the great depression. People had the time to hunt (the first week of deer season was a typical vacation period awarded based on seniority in many factories) and the game populations were maintained by the state agencies. Today, paid vacation is a disappearing commodity and the amount is ~10-days per year. In the 70's, the typical employee had 20~25-days of paid vacation after 25-yrs of service.

So, unless you're really hardcore or can live without an income, hunting is a major consumer of the precious available free time for most employees and, therefore, the number of participants has dwindled. Of course, then there is the land use issues and access and lease fees.....that some hunters advocate to maintain their hunting territory. Just try being a land owner near a group of avid hunters........everything is fine as long as you only let them hunt on your property. Let anyone hunt on your property and you'll have all sorts of fun come hunting season. I've never had an angry phone call from a Bambi lover, but I can count on at least 5 per deer season from angry hunters complaining about other hunters or making silly propositions ranging from asking to plant deer feed on my property (i.e., bait) to offering illegal drugs as lease payment.

Have a good one.

All valid points. The number of hunters is decreasing as our society changes and there are competing interests for limited time. However, there are over 100,000 deer taken annually in Illinois alone. But if you dad doesn't take you hunting, you most likely won't be a hunter.

Also, with the large number of boomer retirees on the horizon, the number of people who would have time to hunt will increase greatly over the next 10 to 15 years.

My question about if the poster had ever hunted was in response to this assertion:

"...far better to kill them with a gun or bow and arrow, cleanly, fast, ..."

No, not really. There is nothing clean or fast about killing a deer with a bow and arrow. Deer can live in extreme pain for hours or days. It is quiet which, I believe, is why several communities around here (Eastern MA) allow bow and arrow "harvesting" but no guns. Like, it's OK to kill them but I don't want to hear it.

..................................................

pete

It was obvious that he had not bow hunted as he would have known the killing deer with a bow and arrow can, and should, be clean and fast.

His suggestion that why bow hunting was allowed, and not guns, is uninformed. The communities allow bow hunting because bullets travel long distances whereas arrows have a very limited range and therefor reduce the risk to other people and property. The upper class suburbs west of St. Louis have recently decided that bow hunting was an acceptable solution to the deer eating their expensive landscape plants year after year.

Illinois allows unlimited bow permits and donation venison to food banks.



W/O natural predators, we are the only viable control.


So far, the only time I've been involved in a collision with a deer was in Canada last summer when a deer ran straight into the side of our sailboat while towing it. Seemed to be intent on suicide.
 
Have you ever bow hunted???????

I've shot deer with a bow that literally died standing on their feet after my broadhead passed completely thru their heart and lung.

Ethical bow hunters would not take a shot they didn't believe would result in a quick and clean kill. And the hundreds of thousands of deer that are harvested by bow hunters annually mean that many less on the road which reduces deer/motorcycle collisions.

We need more hunters.

We do need more hunters.
And I think a lot of people don't know what broadheads are. I do, and that's why I posted what I posted.
There are a number of places that are allowing hunting in the suburbs, as the deer are running rampant in some of those areas. They feel totally safe there and they do like to eat the nice expensive landscaping.
And I can't imagine that it's any more fun to run into a deer when you are driving the kids to soccer practice as opposed to me on my motorcycle on a nice trip to Utah, Colorado, etc.
dc
 
I find it hard to understand how things could be three times worse in Iowa than across the border in Illinois.

Illinoisians more likely to not report deer strikes...just take home the carcass for jerky. Consider deer a side benefit of the Interstate system. We allow deer hunting on our property, and there's at least six of them residing here. If I could trap them, I would.
 
More seriously, Illinois DNR says hunters took 181,451 deer in 107 hunting days in Illinois in the 2011-12 season. Perhaps Iowa has an shorter season or allows a smaller count, leaving more deer to roam. It's a good question... Presunable State Farm is getting their numbers from
Police reports...
 
I suspect that State Farm is getting their numbers from a long ago established insurance industry data base.
Long ago it was said that they know more about you than you do.
They use many different sources, but believe me, they have good information. Mostly, primarily, it will be based on ... insurance claims.
dc
 
Illinoisians more likely to not report deer strikes...just take home the carcass for jerky. Consider deer a side benefit of the Interstate system. We allow deer hunting on our property, and there's at least six of them residing here. If I could trap them, I would.

Unless one drives a junker, they would want insurance coverage and so they would report hitting a deer.

Now about those 6 deer on your property, are any of them wall hangers???:D
 
Unless one drives a junker, they would want insurance coverage and so they would report hitting a deer.

Now about those 6 deer on your property, are any of them wall hangers???:D

Bud,

You can't eat those horns.
 
Unless one drives a junker, they would want insurance coverage and so they would report hitting a deer.

Now about those 6 deer on your property, are any of them wall hangers???:D

Some of "ours" are hangers-one big feller in particular.Neighbor has a feed/cam that has his pic. I love my electric fences around house & gardens & don't like the meat at all, so they think their in LaLa Land here nn our place-which is "their place".
As to IF anyone hunts around my area, thats not a serious discussion as for many it is a serious activity & permeates their minds ALL YEAR LONG! The land of Daniel Boone is alive & well when it comes to hunting.
 
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