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RT pumping white smoke on startup

derost

beemerFROG
Jumped on the bike this morning and a puff of white came out on start up... went away as it was running... until I hit the throttle again, and a lot more white smoke. CRAP!

- Let it cool down and let the oil settle and the oil in the glass has dropped from just over the mid mark (1600mi since oil change in March) to just under a quarter of the glass.
- Pulled the plugs and they are both black
- FYI in March the valves were done

I have a buddy coming over to help with a compression test and a air leak down test. Any thoughts? My first thought is piston ring, but then again I know very little about engines...

As much as this sucks, being there is a rally this weekend... at least it didn't happen on the road!!
 
Are you sure it wasn't only condensation i.e. "steam"? If it burns oil the smoke will be blueish, and it will get worse as the engine heats up and the oil gets hotter. If it was only condensation, it will disappear once the engine and the muffler warms up. As for the oil level dropping, if the oil didn't get to operating temperature it will take a very long time to get back to the sump.
 
Andres,
I don't feel it is steam because the "smoke" lingered in the garage, plus had a smell to it. Maybe my color is off, I will run it again and try to get a better grasp of the smoke color.

My buddy is coming over in an hour or so to check compression. I will update things then... fingers crossed.
 
I am not an expert on Oilhead engines, but my guess would be valve guide seals. Oil leaks into the cylinders and accumulates there when the bike sits. It burns off during start-up.
 
Have you pulled your airbox drain plug lately? If not, put it on the side stand and do so with a cup underneath, just in case you get a bunch of oil coming out.

Have you checked your air cleaner to make sure it hasn't become excessively restricted?

How long ago was the last time you had the bike out? Did it exhibit any of this then? Was there anything notable about your last ride? (Any changes in how the bike ran, Running the RPM higher or lower than normal, longer or shorter than your normal ride, parked differently at the end of the ride, etc.)
 
Before you do anything. Was the bike parked on the side stand after long hard run?

Smoke white or blue?

Boxers can have oil seep into the cylinder if left on the side stand and conditions are right.

My airhead did it a lot.

Take the bike out and ride it around till the smoke stops. Then ride it some more.

Park on the center stand and ride it again tomorrow. Repeat....

Drain the air box like said above. Don't worry too much unless its a continuous problem.

Out of habit I lean my bike to the right after shutting it off for a few seconds to let the oil run out of the left cylinder.

Give it a shot and let us know.

David
 
Before you do anything. Was the bike parked on the side stand after long hard run?

Smoke white or blue?

Boxers can have oil seep into the cylinder if left on the side stand and conditions are right.

My airhead did it a lot.

Take the bike out and ride it around till the smoke stops. Then ride it some more.

Park on the center stand and ride it again tomorrow. Repeat....

Drain the air box like said above. Don't worry too much unless its a continuous problem.

Out of habit I lean my bike to the right after shutting it off for a few seconds to let the oil run out of the left cylinder.

Give it a shot and let us know.

David

+1
Mine (oilhead) will have a smokey start every so often if parked on the side stand.
Common with boxer engines as as the engine cools it draws a bit of oil into the left cylinder depending where the piston stops.
Usually does it when I am parked beside a bunch of Harleys on the ferry.........:laugh
 
white smoke on startup is a classic symptom of a blown/leaking head gasket, or a warped head, allowing engine coolant to get into the combustion chamber.
except Oilheads don't have engine coolant other than oil, and oil smoke is blue:ish.
I would either worry excessively about this problem, or not one iota. I'm strongly leaning towards no iotas.

you said it had "a smell"
want to go the one step further and tell us what it smelled like? if roses, then your flower bed has migrated, and needs roto-tilling. if oil, then some oil is leaking past the rings once you put it on the sidestand, and that is what is burning off.
I bought my bike used, but very low miles. It now has 96,000 miles on it. it sometimes smokes at startup. I don't think the rings have ever fully seated, as she continues to consume oil to this day. I just ride it, and add as necessary. maybe a pint or so gets added between her 6K oil changes- less if touring, more if lots of short commuter miles.
 
Thanks for all of the input.
We did a compression test, all was fine.
Did an air leak down, all was fine.
Valves, fine.
Frustrated, we took it off the lift and took it for a run with my buddy riding behind me... no smoke!
I then had it on the center stand all night, and when I went to start it this morning... you guessed it, smoke.
I took a video of it (sorry, it's with my phone)
 
Did you pull the drain plug on the air box? That is how mine would sometimes act when I wasn't checking the oil right and was running with too much oil. The engine was fixing my mistake by pumping the excess into the air box.
 
How did you check valve guides?

They are still my guess. But I wouldn't know how to check these, other than eliminating all other problems

Sorry, I meant we checked the valve gap while in there. If it is a valve that is leaking... I don't know how to check that.

I did check the airbox, and maybe a few drops came out. If I had just done an oil change I can understand if there was too much in there, but I did my change 1600 miles ago (March). I think at this point just to rule that out, I will get the bike fully warmed up and do another oil change, but without the filter change.
 
How did you check valve guides?

They are still my guess. But I wouldn't know how to check these, other than eliminating all other problems


Just pull the heads, remove the valves, mic the stems and pin the guides - ok - not so easy



I wouldn't change the oil just to make sure there isn't too much. Pulling the drain and not getting more that a drip or two indicates that oil level probably isn't your issue. It also tends to rule out excessive blow by causing oil carry over through the breather or a clogged air filter doing the same.

Doing the side stand dance to carefully verify oil level and checking the air filter would still be on my list because they are easy, but I'm doubtful that the answer is there. After that, pulling the throttle bodies would probably be my next step. I'd probably pull them before starting the bike to look for oil on the intake valves or coming through the throttle bodies. If you don't see anything, I'd shut the bike down and pull the throttle bodies off during a smoky startup and look again. If you still don't see anything, I'd pull the exhaust and look for burnt oil on a valve.
 
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oilhead smoke....

My 850r smoked a lot more than that on first morning start.

AND my 1100RT smokes about the same as yours...


Just ride it and enjoy!!!

Perry
 
From the video, it looks more like unburnt fuel. The way it started, sounded to me like it labored a bit. If you have an injector leaking down at the check valve, fuel pressure may leak down into the throttle body overnight. You mentioned both plugs were black, a definite sign of excessive fuel. If it was oil, they should be fluffy with black carbon and if yours have a dusty coating of black, that's fuel.
The way it labored on start up can sure be a sign of a very rich start mixture, which could be caused by restricted air intake, a dirty filter comes to mind and would more readily explain two fouled plugs against my thought of leaking down injectors. Either should be easy to prove with a look at how much vacuum each cylinder has. I just can't see two injectors crapping out at the same time, unless the problem was gradual. Either way, diluted crankcase oil will only tell you have a problem. Do the blotter test to see.
 
Ride It!

Go have fun!! Ride it! Keep the RPM's up, just to add to the smile! Not because of the engine, it doesnt care!
:wave while you pass!
 
I think its oil.

Fuel burns black.
Oil smoke is blue.

Smell it. Oil or gas?

Black spark plugs right after start up is not that big of a deal. The engine runs much richer for cold start.

I think it should be ridden for a while before panic sets in, its only light smoke and its only on start up.

Check the oil frequently (I seem to check mine too much) and ride the bike.

When I took my RT apart after 130,000 miles, the cylinders looked good, the ring ends were all lined up on top. I have been told on the internet the rings tend to rotate as the engine runs and it could have been dumb luck or just the way it was.

IF your rings do rotate a little as the engine runs they could be lined up on the bottom.
IF this is true then in time they will rotate to some where else.

I have no idea if this is true.

BUT I think you should ride the bike and give it a chance.

More ifs.

IF you did get a good dose of oil in the cylinder head, it found its way into the cat and takes a while to burn off.

Both of my BMW bikes have on occasion done this. It would leave a huge cloud of smoke in the morning or after a long hot hard run then parked on the side stand. To clear it out of the cat, the bike needs to be run hard again or it may continue to smoke until its burned out.

I had the valve guides replaced and a complete valve job on my oil head at 130,000 miles and it did not need it.

Engine wear does not take place all at once.

David
30 year mechanic
 
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