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75/5 starter problem

R

rssllkaplan

Guest
When I insert ignition key, 3 lights in headlight go on. Plenty of battery. When I push starter button, click and all the lights go out. No cranking or anything. I must remove and reinsert key and lights go back on. I can kick start the bike OK.

Is there an easy way to check whether problem is in the starter button before I go to the starter & solenoid, as that is a bigger job.

thanx
 
You may have a starter relay issue...it's under the tank....I doubt the problem is the switch, but could be. Look through this website for a very thorough guide on troubleshooting:

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/startingprobs.htm

It might be overwhelming, but there's good info on that site.

Be sure and read the section on the /5 "cricket" problem...this might affect you.
 
When I insert ignition key, 3 lights in headlight go on. Plenty of battery. When I push starter button, click and all the lights go out.

When you wrote "click" and the lights go out, do you actually hear a sound; a "light" tinny click (starter relay), or a heavier and louder click (starter solenoid)?

Just because the instrument lights go on, and you can kick start the machine, does not necessarily mean you have "plenty of battery". Loading the battery with the starter may be enough to draw down the lights if the battery is failing, and you might hear the relay/starter click. How old is it?

The easiest test would be to "jump start" the bike by hooking up to the battery. Be careful, and make sure to apply the ( - ) to the frame or engine/transmission NOT the negative battery anode. If the starter spins, it's more than likely that your battery is shot. It it just sits there.. . .. back to square one.
 
A lesson learned

If you haven't done so in a while I would make sure that all of your battery cables, ground straps and starter wires are in good shape and have tight & clean connections.

I have in my stable 9 airheads and all of them had a loose starter cable at the starter when I got them at various times and conditions. I also chased and defeted a K-bike gremlin that was found to be a bad ground issue.

The ground attachment to the speedometer anchor bolt is a weak spot.

Also don't rely on your kick starter to much as it is necessarily designed for constant use.
 
Also don't rely on your kick starter to much as it is necessarily designed for constant use.

(???) Perhaps you meant; Also don't rely on your kick starter to much as it is not necessarily designed for constant use. (???)
 
If you haven't done so in a while I would make sure that all of your battery cables, ground straps and starter wires are in good shape and have tight & clean connections.

My first thought was that a poor connection has done this to me in the past. Start with the easy stuff first.
 
Thank you for fixing my Boo Boo

Thank you Lew, I often surprise myself when I fail to proof read but your correction is correct I did mean "not" for constant use.
 
I agree with all above. Check with another battery first. Weird that lights would go out if it was starter relay. Maybe, but not sure why. I would think the relay would click away, but have no effect on lights if it was the relay. A failed battery would have enough voltage to initially illuminate the lamps, but after first press of starter button have nothing.

If battery is proven good, and there are no obviously loose connections, starter relays are cheap to replace (Motorrad Elektrik is a good source, but there are others).

Finally, for my own clarification, I thought that the /5 four speeds were ok to kick start because mechanism is robust. Problem with kick starts is with the /6 and later five speeds because mechanism was redesigned and not strong enough for constant use?

Barron
 
Nromally the indicator lights do not go out when pushing the starter button. Your headlight does go out - thanks to the little starter relais.

If you indicator lights go out it is either a bad battery caused by a high internal resistance or, it's a bad ground connection (which in fact IS a high resistance). With the higher resistance there are still enough electrons which make it through to light the indicator lamps and the ignition. But the starter only laughs about that trickle of electrons he sees. Typically so low that the solenoid on the starter cannot even push the sprocket onto the flywheel.

About a battery building up higher internal resistance also means that it takes less and less charge ... a typical heads-up sign of a failing battery.

/Guenther
 
I thought that the /5 four speeds were ok to kick start because mechanism is robust. Problem with kick starts is with the /6 and later five speeds because mechanism was redesigned and not strong enough for constant use?

That's my understanding as well, although it does tend to get hung up on the left-side foot peg rubber. :-/
 
Finally, for my own clarification, I thought that the /5 four speeds were ok to kick start because mechanism is robust. Problem with kick starts is with the /6 and later five speeds because mechanism was redesigned and not strong enough for constant use?

What I've heard is that it went downhill beginning with the /5. How much, I don't know...with the electric start, seems that the kicker would only be necessary in emergency situations. So, why not save a few grams (and some Deutsche Marks) by reducing the weight of things in the transmission. :scratch
 
A lite click upon pressing starter button is usually bad battery or bad connections:
a) between battery and ground wire
b) between battery ground wire and transmission at speedo cable (do not over torque)
c) between battery and pos lead to starter (big black wire)
d) between battery and pos lead to other bike functions (smaller red wire) leading into harness
actually you have confirmed this is ok if bike runs with kick start

check/wiggle/clean all these if any doubt

If after above you still no start and you suspect starter or starter relay:
Lets be logical here and eliminate what we can easily first

1) Park bike in neutral with key removed
2) Remove gas tank
3) Locate starter protection relay on left side of frame backbone near where front of the tank was
4) Remove Black wire from starter relay (back right terminal on my 72 bike - back and right being from rider's point of view facing forward) this is the wire that when energised will engage the starter (terminal 87 on the starter protection relay)
5) Connect a jumper wire to this black wire (4 above) lamp cord or most anything will do here - just shove some into the exposed female connecter
6) ***SAFETY ISSUE*** confirm again that the bike is in neutral
7) Momentarily touch the other end of your jumper wire (5 above) to the battery positive terminal - The starter should crank the bike but not start it
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the starter cranks the bike in this way you have confirmed that
w) The battery is good enough to start the bike
X) The starter is good enough to start the bike
Y) The big black wire connection to the battery pos terminal is fine
Z) The problem is:
1) the connections to or condition of the starter protection relay
2) between the starter protection relay and the starter switch
3) the red wire connection to battery positive - d) above - actually already confirmed it bike runs with kick start
4) bad starter switch (handlebar button)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
report back
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And yes I can confirm the 4sp trans for /5 bikes kickstart is very robust much like the /2
Many years of use of these trans in /2conversions with 900cc and 1000cc engines and batteries too small to
crank these engines in any but fully warmed up conditions

Kick starting needs good technique
be deliberate

feel for engagement of ratchet mechanism before power stroke

feel for position at beginning of compression stroke

don't let pedal snap back up after stroke

don't get mad and just stomp away on these things and they will last longer than you will
 
I did find some notes by Snowbum...he definitely says that the 1974 kickstarts were weak but felt that after that, they were better but might still be considered emergency items only. Probably a good idea to pull in the clutch lever when using the kicker.
 
The kick starter has never been too ... thorough ... on my /5. It just can't get enough spin in the engine really light it off. It will start the bike, but I don't feel to confident using it. I know, like on the pre-electric start Harley's, that the state of tune of the engine plays a big part in being able to kick start it. There are a couple of YouTube vids on starting the /5, in one of them I'd swear the guy just lets his foot drop on the pedal and it lights off.

More than anything, the kick starter is a conversation piece among my riding buddies. It's somehow unnatural for them to see a kickstarter perpendicular to the motorcycle.

found it

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PIASzXpzb6Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

then there's...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/csP4t9b_Sao" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
I had to cringe at the process by the R65 guy...whoowee...that seems like a disaster waiting to happen. All it will take is one time for the internal teeth not to match up with him jacking on the kicker to ruin his day.
 
Thanks all around

Thanks for the excellent help. I will concentrate initially on the battery.

But I note it is only about a year old, and cranked quite well the day before it would'nt crank at all.

I will post the results when problem is isolated and solved.

Concerning the kick starter, I have no insight into how robust it is, but I have used it extensively for many years. I often use it to "prime" the bike, before relying on the starter motor. It is a technique that I developed over the years. I have learned that when the engine is stone cold, a few primer kicks usually translates into an immediate start with the starter, while with the starter alone , as pertains to my particular /5, cranking time and intensity before turning over has varied alot, and a few times left me in some odd locations and times of day with a bike that wouldn't.

Regards all around for the upcoming Memorial Day Weekend.

Russ
 
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