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2008 R1200RT - 32,000 Miles - Final Drive Failure

I am interested in knowing what specifically failed on these bikes? Are we talking FD bearing, shaft, spline or universal joint?

Scot, et al - OP here. The BMW Tech who discovered my FD failure told me that it was a bearing failure, based on symptoms (sounds, feel and the like) but not based on disassembly. BMW advised the dealer that no parts were available for repair any more and that only a complete FD could be shipped, and the defective piece (the entire thing) would be returned.

As to riding style, I'm a poky old rider who makes longer trips, and avoids abrupt maneuvers and spirited riding. That said, the first 2200 miles were run up by the the first owner.

Also, FWIW and as I noted, the replacement unit sent from Germany has a vent...but the original did not.
 
Extended Warrantee Companies?

Hogwide - I have only had experience (this one claim) with National Auto Care. I don't have any knowledge of other companies. I hope that National Auto Care would provide the same (excellent) degree of support and attention at any place in the US, but my experience for both repair work and the original sale of the policy was at the same place in Massachusetts. I'd expect that if the FD failure were discovered in say, San Diego, the exact same result would have occurred.

I imagine others in the forum might offer differing opinions. :dunno
 
I Can't disagree too much with your comments.

I have been there, two final drive failures on an Oil Head, one of those 2,000 miles from home. As I have stated a couple times lately, I left BMW ownership for about 5 years, I rode mechanically flawless VFR?s.

But..I came back. Why? I can't find another bike out there that meets my requirements. There are a number of shaft drive bikes, but almost all are heavy and covered with body work, not what I'm after.

How do I deal with my lack of trust in BMW reliability? I now look at the rear drive as a replacement wear item. I ate up chain & sprocket sets about every 20k on my VFR's so the cost to repair the rear drive is close to the same as two or three sets of quality chains & sprockets.

I also have gone back to BMW because every motorcycle dealer, except KTM, has gone belly up in town. The saving grace for BMW is that they are so darn easy to work on; I do most of my own work. For those highly technical parts of a job I have one of the best repair guys in the biz just a couple miles away, Ted Porter. Any other brand I would be hauling my bike out of town for work.

So, no kool-aid drinking here, which of course makes it much more difficult to lay on the straw mat, pull up the purple blanket and close my eyes.:D

Your situation seems to be one of geographical necessity - understandable.

But I think the high cost of Southern California living comes into play as well. "...two or three sets of quality chains & sprockets." = a final drive repair?

Whoa! My son tore thru many chain/sprocket sets on his Suzuki Katana while commuting to college. A quality set (RK Racing Chain in anodized gold, with steel front & rear sprockets), including labor and misc. shop supplies, never exceeded $275 per incident. At $2k PLUS labor, it would have taken around 8 times to equal a BMW FD failure.

Not to mention that since it is exposed, you can see when the lifetime of a chain is ebbing, and be aware of it's impending failure, timing when and where it gets replaced - no stranded trip worries.

Perhaps corporate strategy all along was to ignore the problems long enough that consumers would, as you put it, "...look at the rear drive as a replacement wear item."

Let's hope other manufacturers don't hop on that band wagon. It would exhaust the world's supply of cherry, raspberry and lemon-lime! :D
 
"...two or three sets of quality chains & sprockets." = a final drive repair?

Whoa! My son tore thru many chain/sprocket sets on his Suzuki Katana while commuting to college. A quality set (RK Racing Chain in anodized gold, with steel front & rear sprockets), including labor and misc. shop supplies, never exceeded $275 per incident. At $2k PLUS labor, it would have taken around 8 times to equal a BMW FD failure.D

I was talking Oil Heads when I came back to BMW. If you do the repair yourself, depending on which type, it can be less than one chain and sprocket set. Having the work done at our local shop, carry in the rear drive, I figured $600-$800. My numbers could be way off by now.

As for the Hexhead, ya, sounds like it is far more $ to rebuild a rear drive. On the other hand, it does not appear that the failure rate, compared to the Oil Head rate, is near as prevalent...........Mmmmmm, I could be whistling in the dark:laugh
 
My 94 RS Oilhead is now at 172k on the original untouched final drive. I change the final drive Castrol Full-Syn 75w90 fluid about every 20k and check for any play monthly. I don't sense any thing about it not making 200k+ on the original FD.

I'm now in the process of building up my 07 R12RT into my version of a R12RS. I bought the cosmetic crash/clear title RT with only 5900 miles on it, fully rideable, at a great price. I hope to have good luck with the FD on this one, but I'll be watching it closely. Perhaps I'll do the fluid changes much more frequently than I did on my 94RS.

I have heard though that many failed FDs are due to seal issues allowing water/contaminates into the bearing, or water gets in due to overactive cleaning by owners with pressure washers?
 
Perhaps corporate strategy all along was to ignore the problems long enough that consumers would, as you put it, "...look at the rear drive as a replacement wear item."

It's a cost analysis. If it's cheaper to replace the units under warranty than to change the design, then nothing's going to change. This mentality exists in all companies. However, the breakpoint as to what is acceptable varies from company to company. I find this frustrating. To us, the slightly additional cost seems reasonable, but to the company that is looking at 1,000's of units, the analysis and result is often the opposite.

On a side note, my biggest concern with BMW is the quality of their parts. I have a 96 328i and an 88 R100 RT, and the quality of the parts I've purchased for my bike or that has been installed via a repair shop with regards to the 328i have been less than ideal. The replacement parts don't seem to be lasting two years, and these are relatively expensive parts (alternator, AC compressor, etc.). What I don't know is whether or not this is confined to the older vehicles like the ones I own or also exists for newer vehicles.
 
The FD current to the Hex/Cam-heads has two bearings in it; the large roller bearing that carries most all the wheel load. It runs in the FD fluid 100%, and the smaller ball bearing, which runs in its own grease supply packed into the bearing. When BMW changed the fluid volume in the FD it only affects the large roller bearing, the smaller ball bearing never contacts the oil volume.

On the earlier FD common to my 07RT, the is no external wiper seal for the ball bearing with the grease in it. Jim at Nick's BMW says that contamination, water and debris, that gets into the ball bearing can displace the grease, which leads to the ball bearing failure. Also, aggressive cleaning with a pressure washer in the wheel area can cause water/detergent to get into the bearing. Later models have a wiper seal outside of the greased bearing to keep out water/contaminants. That seal can be added to earlier models.

So, this winter the FD comes off my 07RT to get the seal installed.
 
The FD current to the Hex/Cam-heads has two bearings in it; the large roller bearing that carries most all the wheel load. It runs in the FD fluid 100%, and the smaller ball bearing, which runs in its own grease supply packed into the bearing. When BMW changed the fluid volume in the FD it only affects the large roller bearing, the smaller ball bearing never contacts the oil volume.

:confused:

Four bearings.

1) Large ball bearing on crown gear that is NOT in the oil bath (wheel side bearing)
2) Needle bearing that is in the oil bath (out side bearing)
3) Pinion ball bearing
4) Pinion needle bearing

I *think* The bearing that fails most often these days is the large ball bearing... the one that is NOT in the oil bath. Number 7 in this diagram. Number 9 is the seal.

245.png
 
Yes, when you include the pinion bearings there are four in total. The one at issue though is the ball bearing that does not run in the fluid contained in the FD.
 
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