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Thread: Selling it aint so easy...

  1. #16
    It is what it is. Bud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    There are no unwritten rules. There is almost always negotiation involved in motor vehicle sales. Dealer or private sale. Buyers will invariably think their they're paying too much no matter the price.
    I just bought a 99 RT. I don't think I paid too much. I thought it was a real bargain.
    Ride Well

  2. #17
    http://www.rd400racer.com rd400racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    There are no unwritten rules. There is almost always negotiation involved in motor vehicle sales. Dealer or private sale. Buyers will invariably think their they're paying too much no matter the price.


    Well, I really wasn't talking about the money transaction as much as the long distant aspect to it, which is what the OP is alluding to.

    To the OP; yes, I would be leary of this deal.
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  3. #18
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    If he really wants to use an escrow account, have your attorney do it. They have escrow bank accounts. Let your atty cash the check. Once it clears, then the atty can send him the title. Let the buyer pay your attorney. No need to use escrow.com.

    Attorney's can be disbarred for violating escrow. They are the safest bet when there is distance.

    Other then that, they can wire you the money, or FedEx you a bank check. When the funds clear (maximum of 2 days), then you will FedEx him the title. Wires can be reversed within 24 hours of receiving. Check must clear within 2 days (Check21).

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23217 View Post
    If he really wants to use an escrow account, have your attorney do it. They have escrow bank accounts. Let your atty cash the check. Once it clears, then the atty can send him the title. Let the buyer pay your attorney. No need to use escrow.com.

    Attorney's can be disbarred for violating escrow. They are the safest bet when there is distance.

    Other then that, they can wire you the money, or FedEx you a bank check. When the funds clear (maximum of 2 days), then you will FedEx him the title. Wires can be reversed within 24 hours of receiving. Check must clear within 2 days (Check21).
    There is still too much risk within the 2-days. I NEVER give title work out until 14 calendar days have passed. Unless the unit is paid for with cash and the banks agrees to take it all (.i.e. no counterfeit). After you're on the losing end of the stick you learn to handle it a bit more intelligently. There are so many schemes going on anymore I'm not even sure I'm confident the cash is in the bank even after it's sitting there.

  5. #20
    na1g
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    The only rule, written or unwritten, in a private sale is: there are no rules. Plenty of con artists on each side of the table. Have you been contacted by an agent for an Ethiopian prince yet?

    Seriously, will your local dealer take the bike on consignment? Yes, he gets a nice cut but you get some security that things will go right.

    Good luck!
    pete

  6. #21
    Registered User mpmarty's Avatar
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    In September of 2004 I had just bought a 2004 RT and had two Suzukis in my garage that had to go. I listed them on Evilbay and both sold in less than a week. In 2007 I bought my 06 RT and listed my 04 on Ebay and a gentleman from Canada responded by email. I answered a question or two and he came down to southern Oregon and looked at the bike. He left a deposit and went home to Canada. A week or so later he returned and handed me the cash and took the bike. Three bike sales and never a problem. Just dumb luck I guess.
    Marty - in the western Oregon mountains.'06RT, (gone '04RT, '86 Venture Royal, '81 Yamaha Virago920, '82Suzuki GS1100GK, '76 Suzuki GT750, Triumph 750 Bonneville, BSA Road Rocket 650, 61" Harley knucklehead)

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPMARTY View Post
    In September of 2004 I had just bought a 2004 RT and had two Suzukis in my garage that had to go. I listed them on Evilbay and both sold in less than a week. In 2007 I bought my 06 RT and listed my 04 on Ebay and a gentleman from Canada responded by email. I answered a question or two and he came down to southern Oregon and looked at the bike. He left a deposit and went home to Canada. A week or so later he returned and handed me the cash and took the bike. Three bike sales and never a problem. Just dumb luck I guess.
    Let me know how it works out for you if you ever sell thousands...

  8. #23
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    There are no unwritten rules. There is almost always negotiation involved in motor vehicle sales. Dealer or private sale. Buyers will invariably think their they're paying too much no matter the price.
    Au contraire! If I think the price is too high I just don't buy it.

    If I think the offer is too low, I just don't sell it.

    But I have realistic expectations when I buy or sell something. I know my bike isn't special and there are lots more like it, some better even. So I set a realistic price and stick with it. I had three offers in 20 minutes last time I sold a bike, but I only advertised in IBMWR among the BMW community.

    My one fundamental expectation is truthfulness and honesty. Those are the rules, period. If I detect any even tiny bit of lack of honesty - no deal, goodby!
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    May be he should fly out and ride it home.
    Simple is good. I like this idea best.

  10. #25
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    Dealers tend to take a beating in the area of honesty. No one is born a dealer. They actually start out as human beings and then at some point become customers and then become a dealer. Where in that chain of events do people turn dishonest? The real problem is not being a dealer; the real problem is being a person who decides to become dishonest. Give thought to this comment: the only way a business gets to be dishonest is through the cooperation of its so-called honest employees. If the employee refused to carry out the dishonesty the business wouldn't be able to pull it off. Yes, someone may need their job and we all know that. But does that mean the dishonesty is now ok because the person can't afford to lose their job. Today's heavy thought...
    I used to work on cars for a living. I worked at one independent shop where the guy was a thief, plain and simple. He would have us fix a problem, but turn around and charge them for a much more expensive repair or worse, not do what was paid for and charge the full magilla. This could be a rebuilt transmission that all it needed was a new rear seal. His cost was $200 for a rebuilt transmission and he charged $700 and never touched the car. This was back in the mid 80s. I remember when a steady customer's car broke down as it wouldn't start and it turned out to be a loose wire on the neutral safety switch. He took out the starter, painted it and charged her $120 for a new starter. I could go on. When I left his employ, I turned him into the state as repair shops have to be licensed by the state and he also had a license to do safety and emissions inspections, for which he was making a bundle running inspections for a used car lot, inspections that never happened. What this guy did and what he made us do made me sick. I was glad to be out of there and glad he got hammered. There's nothing wrong with charging a decent rate as long as the work is done, that the work needs to be done and that work wasn't done that didn't need to be done either. The funny thing was that if his kids came to have their cars fixed, we had to do it according to hoyle, but outside of that, all his customers got hosed in one way or another. This guy was such a POS, he would wait to pay us when he was leaving on Saturday, which was right after lunch. The thing is, we would be out of money by then and he would make us get him lunch before he would leave and then we would get paid. What a prick and 6 days of work for $148. Those were the days. NOT.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    I used to work on cars for a living. I worked at one independent shop where the guy was a thief, plain and simple. He would have us fix a problem, but turn around and charge them for a much more expensive repair or worse, not do what was paid for and charge the full magilla. This could be a rebuilt transmission that all it needed was a new rear seal. His cost was $200 for a rebuilt transmission and he charged $700 and never touched the car. This was back in the mid 80s. I remember when a steady customer's car broke down as it wouldn't start and it turned out to be a loose wire on the neutral safety switch. He took out the starter, painted it and charged her $120 for a new starter. I could go on. When I left his employ, I turned him into the state as repair shops have to be licensed by the state and he also had a license to do safety and emissions inspections, for which he was making a bundle running inspections for a used car lot, inspections that never happened. What this guy did and what he made us do made me sick. I was glad to be out of there and glad he got hammered. There's nothing wrong with charging a decent rate as long as the work is done, that the work needs to be done and that work wasn't done that didn't need to be done either. The funny thing was that if his kids came to have their cars fixed, we had to do it according to hoyle, but outside of that, all his customers got hosed in one way or another. This guy was such a POS, he would wait to pay us when he was leaving on Saturday, which was right after lunch. The thing is, we would be out of money by then and he would make us get him lunch before he would leave and then we would get paid. What a prick and 6 days of work for $148. Those were the days. NOT.
    I worked for a guy back in the mid-70's who was a thief as well and he was the 2nd dealer I had worked with. Dealer number one had zero issues with ethics. So number 2 was a shock to me as I had no idea people in the motorcycle industry would actually steal from others. Can you say wet behind the ears? I had moved out of the house when I was 19 and lived just outside New York City and was living on my own. My parents lived 1,200 miles away. I was scared to quit because I had no clue how I was going to support myself in such an expensive part of the country. I am ashamed to say I actually stayed there for 3 years prior to quitting so shame on me for continuing to lie and cheat people out of their money. Knowing somebody else would come in and do the same was the ultimate deception to myself. I knew what I was doing was wrong and was therefore inexcusable however I kept doing it his way. Sad part of my life.

    It was there however I came to the realization that employers who steal almost always get away with it because the employee base is allowing it to occur. If EVERY employee refused to steal the employer would not be able to steal. Ultimately I finally had the nerve to quit for the sole reason I just couldn't keep stealing from people. From every dealer position forward I always told them it was critical that the store operate in an ethical manner. By dealer 3 I had 5 years experience under my belt and I was good at what I did. I had no issues getting hired and I had no issues in running an honest business. I can honestly say from dealer 3 forward I never ran into another thief again. It does pain me to see people frequently assume and accuse the dealer is a thief with no facts to back it up. I have experienced the opposite.

    You do have dealers make mistakes however. That's normal and expected. Any dealer I worked with would ALWAYS cover any dealer mistake. But, and this is most critical, if the customer never tells the dealer about the mistake what do you think happens? Nothing but angry customer feelings over how he/she has been ripped off and/or the entire store is screwed up or you name it. It is never complimentary. People act the way they do but I'm not sure how they feel never advising the dealer of the mistake is the best way to handle it.

    Are there bad guys out there? Obviously. Do they really exist in large numbers? Not in my experience.

  12. #27
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    This was outside NYC too, on Long Island.

    As far as the question, is it commonplace? It depends on one's moral compass. I wouldn't say all dealers are thieves, but can you say most never did anything unethical? Hard to say. If we find a good one, keep patronizing the the place.
    My Motorrad
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  13. #28
    smross44
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    Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by rd400racer View Post
    I buy and sell bikes all the time. I always thought there was an unwritten rule to this....If you are the buyer, you give the seller his money and figure out how you are going to get the bike. Sold an FZR400 to a guy from Montreal last month...he drove to Louisville and back same day to get it. Sold a Daytona Special to a guy in San Fran last year. He paid me then arranged for a shipping company to pick it up. I bought another FZR from a guy in South Carolina...I drove to pick it up and back in a day.

    If the deal involves more than this....I walk away.
    I agree with this philosophy. Safe and sound. KISS. Keep it simple stupid.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    This was outside NYC too, on Long Island.

    As far as the question, is it commonplace? It depends on one's moral compass. I wouldn't say all dealers are thieves, but can you say most never did anything unethical? Hard to say. If we find a good one, keep patronizing the the place.
    C'mon Ponch. Do you know any human beings that have never done anything unethical? Motorcycle or otherwise?

    I go back to what I said previously because it represents truth. Employees going along with the employers unethical methods allow those methods to continue. The mere fact employees choose to allow it means they are condoning the unethical action. Being afraid of losing your job is nothing but an excuse to continue on with wrong. I know because I've been there and done that I'm sorry to say.

    Stop and think for a second. If you have a boss who lies and steals every business day that in effect is telling you his or her employees have agreed to lie and steal every day. People really need to take a step back and look at their own actions before they start blaming others.

  15. #30
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    This was outside NYC too, on Long Island.

    As far as the question, is it commonplace? It depends on one's moral compass. I wouldn't say all dealers are thieves, but can you say most never did anything unethical? Hard to say. If we find a good one, keep patronizing the the place.
    Nah! I keep reading all the time folks wanting to find the best deal from China or wherever on the Internet. They go to that good dealer when they absolutely have to, try on a jacket or a helmet, then go home to do their shopping on-line. We read it in threads here all the time.

    Then when that good, honest dealer has trouble staying in business we hear all about how it was BMW's fault for requiring gray paint or some such nonsense.

    Go find a good dealer. Develop a relationship. Patronize them. My first choice is now 1000 miles away. I've dealt with them for 30 years. My next choice is 450 miles away. But they get my business too.

    I live 53 miles from the nearest town. I do buy some stuff off the Internet, but get most things from the local merchants in town because I need them to be there. As for BMW parts - my favorite dealers get the business.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

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