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Selling it aint so easy...

In September of 2004 I had just bought a 2004 RT and had two Suzukis in my garage that had to go. I listed them on Evilbay and both sold in less than a week. In 2007 I bought my 06 RT and listed my 04 on Ebay and a gentleman from Canada responded by email. I answered a question or two and he came down to southern Oregon and looked at the bike. He left a deposit and went home to Canada. A week or so later he returned and handed me the cash and took the bike. Three bike sales and never a problem. Just dumb luck I guess.
 
In September of 2004 I had just bought a 2004 RT and had two Suzukis in my garage that had to go. I listed them on Evilbay and both sold in less than a week. In 2007 I bought my 06 RT and listed my 04 on Ebay and a gentleman from Canada responded by email. I answered a question or two and he came down to southern Oregon and looked at the bike. He left a deposit and went home to Canada. A week or so later he returned and handed me the cash and took the bike. Three bike sales and never a problem. Just dumb luck I guess.

Let me know how it works out for you if you ever sell thousands...
 
There are no unwritten rules. There is almost always negotiation involved in motor vehicle sales. Dealer or private sale. Buyers will invariably think their they're paying too much no matter the price.

Au contraire! If I think the price is too high I just don't buy it.

If I think the offer is too low, I just don't sell it.

But I have realistic expectations when I buy or sell something. I know my bike isn't special and there are lots more like it, some better even. So I set a realistic price and stick with it. I had three offers in 20 minutes last time I sold a bike, but I only advertised in IBMWR among the BMW community.

My one fundamental expectation is truthfulness and honesty. Those are the rules, period. If I detect any even tiny bit of lack of honesty - no deal, goodby!
 
Dealers tend to take a beating in the area of honesty. No one is born a dealer. They actually start out as human beings and then at some point become customers and then become a dealer. Where in that chain of events do people turn dishonest? The real problem is not being a dealer; the real problem is being a person who decides to become dishonest. Give thought to this comment: the only way a business gets to be dishonest is through the cooperation of its so-called honest employees. If the employee refused to carry out the dishonesty the business wouldn't be able to pull it off. Yes, someone may need their job and we all know that. But does that mean the dishonesty is now ok because the person can't afford to lose their job. Today's heavy thought...

I used to work on cars for a living. I worked at one independent shop where the guy was a thief, plain and simple. He would have us fix a problem, but turn around and charge them for a much more expensive repair or worse, not do what was paid for and charge the full magilla. This could be a rebuilt transmission that all it needed was a new rear seal. His cost was $200 for a rebuilt transmission and he charged $700 and never touched the car. This was back in the mid 80s. I remember when a steady customer's car broke down as it wouldn't start and it turned out to be a loose wire on the neutral safety switch. He took out the starter, painted it and charged her $120 for a new starter. I could go on. When I left his employ, I turned him into the state as repair shops have to be licensed by the state and he also had a license to do safety and emissions inspections, for which he was making a bundle running inspections for a used car lot, inspections that never happened. What this guy did and what he made us do made me sick. I was glad to be out of there and glad he got hammered. There's nothing wrong with charging a decent rate as long as the work is done, that the work needs to be done and that work wasn't done that didn't need to be done either. The funny thing was that if his kids came to have their cars fixed, we had to do it according to hoyle, but outside of that, all his customers got hosed in one way or another. This guy was such a POS, he would wait to pay us when he was leaving on Saturday, which was right after lunch. The thing is, we would be out of money by then and he would make us get him lunch before he would leave and then we would get paid. What a prick and 6 days of work for $148. Those were the days. NOT.
 
I used to work on cars for a living. I worked at one independent shop where the guy was a thief, plain and simple. He would have us fix a problem, but turn around and charge them for a much more expensive repair or worse, not do what was paid for and charge the full magilla. This could be a rebuilt transmission that all it needed was a new rear seal. His cost was $200 for a rebuilt transmission and he charged $700 and never touched the car. This was back in the mid 80s. I remember when a steady customer's car broke down as it wouldn't start and it turned out to be a loose wire on the neutral safety switch. He took out the starter, painted it and charged her $120 for a new starter. I could go on. When I left his employ, I turned him into the state as repair shops have to be licensed by the state and he also had a license to do safety and emissions inspections, for which he was making a bundle running inspections for a used car lot, inspections that never happened. What this guy did and what he made us do made me sick. I was glad to be out of there and glad he got hammered. There's nothing wrong with charging a decent rate as long as the work is done, that the work needs to be done and that work wasn't done that didn't need to be done either. The funny thing was that if his kids came to have their cars fixed, we had to do it according to hoyle, but outside of that, all his customers got hosed in one way or another. This guy was such a POS, he would wait to pay us when he was leaving on Saturday, which was right after lunch. The thing is, we would be out of money by then and he would make us get him lunch before he would leave and then we would get paid. What a prick and 6 days of work for $148. Those were the days. NOT.

I worked for a guy back in the mid-70's who was a thief as well and he was the 2nd dealer I had worked with. Dealer number one had zero issues with ethics. So number 2 was a shock to me as I had no idea people in the motorcycle industry would actually steal from others. Can you say wet behind the ears? I had moved out of the house when I was 19 and lived just outside New York City and was living on my own. My parents lived 1,200 miles away. I was scared to quit because I had no clue how I was going to support myself in such an expensive part of the country. I am ashamed to say I actually stayed there for 3 years prior to quitting so shame on me for continuing to lie and cheat people out of their money. Knowing somebody else would come in and do the same was the ultimate deception to myself. I knew what I was doing was wrong and was therefore inexcusable however I kept doing it his way. Sad part of my life.

It was there however I came to the realization that employers who steal almost always get away with it because the employee base is allowing it to occur. If EVERY employee refused to steal the employer would not be able to steal. Ultimately I finally had the nerve to quit for the sole reason I just couldn't keep stealing from people. From every dealer position forward I always told them it was critical that the store operate in an ethical manner. By dealer 3 I had 5 years experience under my belt and I was good at what I did. I had no issues getting hired and I had no issues in running an honest business. I can honestly say from dealer 3 forward I never ran into another thief again. It does pain me to see people frequently assume and accuse the dealer is a thief with no facts to back it up. I have experienced the opposite.

You do have dealers make mistakes however. That's normal and expected. Any dealer I worked with would ALWAYS cover any dealer mistake. But, and this is most critical, if the customer never tells the dealer about the mistake what do you think happens? Nothing but angry customer feelings over how he/she has been ripped off and/or the entire store is screwed up or you name it. It is never complimentary. People act the way they do but I'm not sure how they feel never advising the dealer of the mistake is the best way to handle it.

Are there bad guys out there? Obviously. Do they really exist in large numbers? Not in my experience.
 
This was outside NYC too, on Long Island.

As far as the question, is it commonplace? It depends on one's moral compass. I wouldn't say all dealers are thieves, but can you say most never did anything unethical? Hard to say. If we find a good one, keep patronizing the the place.
 
Deal

I buy and sell bikes all the time. I always thought there was an unwritten rule to this....If you are the buyer, you give the seller his money and figure out how you are going to get the bike. Sold an FZR400 to a guy from Montreal last month...he drove to Louisville and back same day to get it. Sold a Daytona Special to a guy in San Fran last year. He paid me then arranged for a shipping company to pick it up. I bought another FZR from a guy in South Carolina...I drove to pick it up and back in a day.

If the deal involves more than this....I walk away.

I agree with this philosophy. Safe and sound. KISS. Keep it simple stupid.
 
This was outside NYC too, on Long Island.

As far as the question, is it commonplace? It depends on one's moral compass. I wouldn't say all dealers are thieves, but can you say most never did anything unethical? Hard to say. If we find a good one, keep patronizing the the place.

C'mon Ponch. Do you know any human beings that have never done anything unethical? Motorcycle or otherwise?

I go back to what I said previously because it represents truth. Employees going along with the employers unethical methods allow those methods to continue. The mere fact employees choose to allow it means they are condoning the unethical action. Being afraid of losing your job is nothing but an excuse to continue on with wrong. I know because I've been there and done that I'm sorry to say.

Stop and think for a second. If you have a boss who lies and steals every business day that in effect is telling you his or her employees have agreed to lie and steal every day. People really need to take a step back and look at their own actions before they start blaming others.
 
This was outside NYC too, on Long Island.

As far as the question, is it commonplace? It depends on one's moral compass. I wouldn't say all dealers are thieves, but can you say most never did anything unethical? Hard to say. If we find a good one, keep patronizing the the place.

Nah! I keep reading all the time folks wanting to find the best deal from China or wherever on the Internet. They go to that good dealer when they absolutely have to, try on a jacket or a helmet, then go home to do their shopping on-line. We read it in threads here all the time.

Then when that good, honest dealer has trouble staying in business we hear all about how it was BMW's fault for requiring gray paint or some such nonsense.

Go find a good dealer. Develop a relationship. Patronize them. My first choice is now 1000 miles away. I've dealt with them for 30 years. My next choice is 450 miles away. But they get my business too.

I live 53 miles from the nearest town. I do buy some stuff off the Internet, but get most things from the local merchants in town because I need them to be there. As for BMW parts - my favorite dealers get the business.
 
It seems logical to me that rather than blame "dealers" folks need to realize there are millions and millions of people, we'll call them "human beings" (a.k.a. "customers"), that are in fact unethical. Out of those millions some of them will want to become dealers and with potential power and potential control over the customer the customer-now-turned-dealer will get the opportunity to continue with their unethical life by owning a store, also known as dealership.

I do not believe dealers turn unethical just because they now own a business although some certainly will do just that. I do firmly believe you had an unethical human being, who also happens to be a customer and who frequents other businesses just like we all do, get hold of an opportunity to steal from others by becoming a dealer.

There is no doubt in my mind the majority of dealers are ethical although it's not something I can prove. If you don't give them the opportunity to prove it you'll never find out. Here's a statement to think about: How many people on this forum work for unethical employers? For those that do are you taking any corrective action against that individual?

For you see ethics are an important part of life. Everyone wants others to be fair to them. Isn't it appropriate we should be fair to others? A previous post states there are people who go to a dealership to try things on for size and then go home and place an order online. It might be hard to believe but the dealers intent wasn't to be someones dressing room. With so many posts that have complained about dealers I'm sure there are no customers who would pull such a stunt. Or, are there?

There is no reason to be biased or to present one-sided stories. Both sides have responsibilities to be fair to one another. No dealer and no customer has the right to take advantage of one another. So simple a concept, so hard for many to live by.
 
Nah! I keep reading all the time folks wanting to find the best deal from China or wherever on the Internet. They go to that good dealer when they absolutely have to, try on a jacket or a helmet, then go home to do their shopping on-line. We read it in threads here all the time.

Then when that good, honest dealer has trouble staying in business we hear all about how it was BMW's fault for requiring gray paint or some such nonsense.

Go find a good dealer. Develop a relationship. Patronize them. My first choice is now 1000 miles away. I've dealt with them for 30 years. My next choice is 450 miles away. But they get my business too.

I live 53 miles from the nearest town. I do buy some stuff off the Internet, but get most things from the local merchants in town because I need them to be there. As for BMW parts - my favorite dealers get the business.

Life for all of us would be better if we shared this point of view. Nothing pisses me off more than when some person refers to a dealer as a "stealership" with no hard reasons to back up their statement. Its just ignorant. Further, try and keep your money in your own country and keep your neighbours working. Believe it or not, we're all in this together.

End of "BC1100S' Philosophy of Life". :D
 
Nah! I keep reading all the time folks wanting to find the best deal from China or wherever on the Internet. They go to that good dealer when they absolutely have to, try on a jacket or a helmet, then go home to do their shopping on-line. We read it in threads here all the time.

Then when that good, honest dealer has trouble staying in business we hear all about how it was BMW's fault for requiring gray paint or some such nonsense.

Go find a good dealer. Develop a relationship. Patronize them. My first choice is now 1000 miles away. I've dealt with them for 30 years. My next choice is 450 miles away. But they get my business too.

I live 53 miles from the nearest town. I do buy some stuff off the Internet, but get most things from the local merchants in town because I need them to be there. As for BMW parts - my favorite dealers get the business.

Don't get me started on China... :)

The thing that people don't think about is shipping, handling and having to wait for whatever it is they need. When it is added up, the difference shrinks. For instance, I don't go to home depot that much anymore, I'd rather go to the local Ace Hardware. Oil is cheaper at wally world, but I can get at the local O'reilly's too. Stuff like oil filters can be bought at the local dealer too. The only time I draw the line is if the prices are insane. I went to a local motorcycle shop and got PR3s last year for $409 mounted and balanced. The dealer here sells a rear PR3 for over $300 and that doesn't include anything and it's on sale, allegedly. So there are times when saving money can add up to real money.

As far as the gray paint, I do wish BMW had more color on their bikes. Just saying. :wave
 
I always find it interesting to hear the levels of trust that others are willing to take in human beings. Having assumed some risk in some of my various dealings(lots of them) over the years you get to where you notice the "red flags waving" at times, yet I, like a few of you above here continue to trust when necessary & with some prudence applied. It's the real world out there folks & you can either join it or avoid it. I know people who have a vehicle "dealing radius" of ~ 25-30 miles from my rural location & others that it goes out to 55-60 miles & a few that it covers the USA. Me & a couple of car collectors in my extremely rural & POOR! county reach out & touch the world.
While I adhere to PG's analogy of patronizing local business's I can not avoid the fact that it simply doesn't cover my hobbies or other needs to buy everything from the Southern States dealer or the 2 dollar stores or the one grocery in my county that comprise the entire spectrum of shopping here. As an e.g., my last 2 MC jackets came from ADV flea mkt & ebay via a dealer that like me had to extend their sales reach. Many of you really have never had to cope with zero commerce surrounding you. Some persons that I know real well never plan a purchase in advance & furthermore they run the roads burning gas & time to get mundane stuff & important stuff. I can't count the times I've been in a salvage yard to get something I've called about & there's someone in there driving from yard to yard looking for a certain part. I suppose they are patronizing local business huh? There's a line I draw which covers my pocketbook ,time & the ample dose of "Arab trader" in me when I spend $$$. I say "Thank (you know who (AG?) :love ) for the internet!!!:wave

P.S. Lets face it, selling a vehicle is a PIA @ times & you can carp about it or take it in stride of which I tend to do both depending on the buyer seller-my last sale was one of the "good guys" in a white hat, so to speak. Thats the usual way it goes.
 
I sold a collection of motorcycles for health issues several years ago. Some were fully restored and very rare collector bikes that sold for more than some would believe they are worth. I sold them all on eBay. All at $500 at the close of the auction, balance due in full when the bikes are picked-up. All sold as-is/where-is. In one case, the buyer asked if I'd be willing to deliver the bike [one of the very rare ones] to an air freight company in Albuquerque for $600. He paid in full before I even looked out the window to see if my trailer was still in the yard. All the others either had someone show up at my door with cash or came themselves.

Never a problem, never a question of scam/fraud/escrow or any other BS.

If that's not how your deal goes - you need to walk.
 
Hate to bring up the good old days, but, I never sold a bike but that the prospective buyer always swung a leg over the saddle and went for a fairly long spin, even down the freeway to see if they liked the ride. And always cash, and always local. Gives me the cold chills today just thinking about it in our torted up brave new society. Can't imagine trying to sell my current cobbled together R90. Every bike I ever bought was considered by me to need a complete goin-through with the necessary costs and caveat emptor the thought of the day. Never believed anything the seller was sayin. Two sense.
 
I always find it interesting to hear the levels of trust that others are willing to take in human beings. Having assumed some risk in some of my various dealings(lots of them) over the years you get to where you notice the "red flags waving" at times, yet I, like a few of you above here continue to trust when necessary & with some prudence applied. It's the real world out there folks & you can either join it or avoid it. I know people who have a vehicle "dealing radius" of ~ 25-30 miles from my rural location & others that it goes out to 55-60 miles & a few that it covers the USA. Me & a couple of car collectors in my extremely rural & POOR! county reach out & touch the world.
While I adhere to PG's analogy of patronizing local business's I can not avoid the fact that it simply doesn't cover my hobbies or other needs to buy everything from the Southern States dealer or the 2 dollar stores or the one grocery in my county that comprise the entire spectrum of shopping here. As an e.g., my last 2 MC jackets came from ADV flea mkt & ebay via a dealer that like me had to extend their sales reach. Many of you really have never had to cope with zero commerce surrounding you. Some persons that I know real well never plan a purchase in advance & furthermore they run the roads burning gas & time to get mundane stuff & important stuff. I can't count the times I've been in a salvage yard to get something I've called about & there's someone in there driving from yard to yard looking for a certain part. I suppose they are patronizing local business huh? There's a line I draw which covers my pocketbook ,time & the ample dose of "Arab trader" in me when I spend $$$. I say "Thank (you know who (AG?) :love ) for the internet!!!:wave

P.S. Lets face it, selling a vehicle is a PIA @ times & you can carp about it or take it in stride of which I tend to do both depending on the buyer seller-my last sale was one of the "good guys" in a white hat, so to speak. Thats the usual way it goes.



It is true, what you say. What we want may not be local, as such we need to reach out. Here for examp. we have no BMW dealer , closest one is 100 miles. so if I'm in the market , new or used. It will be a non-local purchase, and as i stated before. Trust will be involved.
 
Selling...

Another option to consider, if your current sales offer goes south...See if your local dealer will allow you to sell it through his dealership on a "consignment" basis. Tipically, this means the dealership will get an up-front agreed upon amount (normally much less than the loss you would take if you sold it to him), the transaction can be conducted through the dealership (less of a headache for you), you won't have to worry about the legitimacy of the buyer's payment (counterfeit or what have you),and, your bike will usually get great exposure and sometimes some free advertisement.

I have sold a number of bikes, as well as boats, cars, trucks, etc. over the years. It's never easy, but you get used to it. I sold one BMW by way of consignemnt through my local (90 miles away) BMW dealer a few years ago. I have another one for sale by consignment on his showroom floor right now. This dealer treats me right. Of course, it may have something to do with the money I spend at his buisiness.

Just something to consider.

Will McHardy
 
Rule #1:
Money talks, BS walks.

CL is a place where all manner of scammers troll. One of the main rules of thumb for CL transactions: NO third party involvement. NONE. Period. Cashier's checks, money orders, etc can all be easily faked. Don't be a sucker. This is already too complicated. Any truly honest person would have been far more forthright in their actions and/or deed.

When in doubt, refer to rule #1.

As someone already said: ask yourself why this person wants your bike when there must be plenty for sale in his own locale. Just for fun, lets say for some reason he HAS to have YOUR bike. If he wants it THAT badly, then what's the hold-up?

Rule #2: refer to rule #1.

Cheers.
And best of luck.
 
Wow, this thread is hitting pretty close to home!

I really don't tour the way I used to due to some neck and shoulder injuries and only ride 5000 - 6000 miles a year now, mostly day trips or overnight type rides. Our NY winter was pretty severe and this was the first time in my entire life that I parked the bike in late November and didn't ride at all until late March.

I got to thinking that maybe it was time to hang it up and listed my RT on a few websites and eBay. Well, the only thing I can say is it's just not worth it! A gal purchased it during the first eBay listing at the buy it now ending the auction. Of course she was - " an American marina stationed at sea doing some federal project and would send an agent to claim the motorcycle". Alrighty then, so eBay gives a re- list and its going along good, lots of lookers, getting questions by email etc. until some guy from who knows where starts sending emails. Like 27 so far. " Why won't you accept a wire, it must be checked out and signed off by a dealer, will you deliver, there is a bike located near me that's cheaper, why are you selling, is there a return grace period, I'd really prefer to wire you payment, why wont you accept that"......On and on.

I finally said the hell with it, and de- listed the ad. I may not ride the way I used to but life is too short for all of that! Wow, never again. When the day comes that I really can't ride anymore, the "Grey Ghost" will make a nice garage backdrop and it ain't going anywhere.

In the meantime I'm surprised to find another 980 miles have accumulated on the odometer since I took it out to get it inspected that first day this year. How the heck did they get there?
 
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