Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 57

Thread: E15

  1. #1
    Swamp Fox GeneT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    350

    E15

    Y'all might find this of some interest:

    http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/5...r-sales-of-e15
    Gene T

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Kentucky
    Posts
    489
    Maybe the solution is to build vehicles that run efficiently on 100% ethanol from hemp
    Anthony S.
    2012 R1200GS

  3. #3
    IBA #44567 Ken F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    SW, MO
    Posts
    1,220
    .........Or build the pipeline from Canada, and drill for the oil we have under our country and offshore.
    Some Refineries and dismantling the EPA would dramatically help the situation too!
    Ken
    IBA #44567 Pres. Springfield BMW Roadriders
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
    -Albert Eienstein

  4. #4
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken F View Post
    .........Or build the pipeline from Canada, and drill for the oil we have under our country and offshore.
    Some Refineries and dismantling the EPA would dramatically help the situation too!
    Ken
    Hmmm.......if that oil was for local consumption why don't they build the refinery in Canada and sell us the refined product? They would have the profit from both the crude and the higher value refined product?
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    East Troy, WI
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Hmmm.......if that oil was for local consumption why don't they build the refinery in Canada and sell us the refined product? They would have the profit from both the crude and the higher value refined product?
    I thought it has a something to do with shelf life if final product. Crude can sit in a tank for a long time. Refined cant be stock piled. I could be wrong though,
    ----------
    Kris - 2007 f650GS

  6. #6
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinKris View Post
    I thought it has a something to do with shelf life if final product. Crude can sit in a tank for a long time. Refined cant be stock piled. I could be wrong though,
    With the Canadian oil sand and US shale oil production in the upper mid-west, refining the product near the well site would provide a central distribution point for any domestic needs. The pipeline provides the lowest cost path to the higher profit margin export market.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    East Troy, WI
    Posts
    55
    Reminds me of the US Postal Service. To mail a bill in to the local utility....5 miles away....the bill first goes 30 miles away and then back to them.
    ----------
    Kris - 2007 f650GS

  8. #8
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    I thought it has to do with who owns the raw material and the plants capable of refining it. Refining capabilities are not interchangeable. Also thought we could not export crude and were an importer but we are able to export refined products and do.
    Where do you think the crude from Alaska goes? The crude is owned by the driller and sold to the highest bidder. Due to our lower labor and production costs (thank you, currency devaluation and low NG gas prices to power the refineries), we have become a net exporter of refined products. We are so cheap, some European refineries have been permanently taken off line.

    In any case, the XL pipe line is the lowest cost route for Canadian crude to reach the world market. That's where the money is..
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  9. #9
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Fly Over Land
    Posts
    10,646
    Let me try again and then I am out of here.

    Crude oil exports are restricted to: (1) crude oil derived from fields under the State waters of Alaska's Cook Inlet; (2) Alaskan North Slope crude oil; (3) certain domestically produced crude oil destined for Canada; (4) shipments to U.S. territories; and (5) California crude oil to Pacific Rim countries. Totals may not equal sum of components due to independent rounding.

    http://www.eia.gov/ is the source of the information. Export of production of oil is restricted and or controlled and not fully the free market commodity you suggest.

    I am not a oil chemist but based on my reading on the subject it comes in various forms often referred to as light sweet heavy etc. These are based on sulfur content and other things. refineries can not handle all forms of crude. One of the driving issues with pipelines is getting product to the proper refinery in the cheapest way.

    Environmental issues complicate it even more. I can't find the epa source quickly but at this point there are something like 47 different blends approved to me a variety of air quality issues across the country. This further increases the issues related to matching product and production.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  10. #10
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    Let me try again and then I am out of here.

    Crude oil exports are restricted to: (1) crude oil derived from fields under the State waters of Alaska's Cook Inlet; (2) Alaskan North Slope crude oil; (3) certain domestically produced crude oil destined for Canada; (4) shipments to U.S. territories; and (5) California crude oil to Pacific Rim countries. Totals may not equal sum of components due to independent rounding.

    http://www.eia.gov/ is the source of the information. Export of production of oil is restricted and or controlled and not fully the free market commodity you suggest.

    I am not a oil chemist but based on my reading on the subject it comes in various forms often referred to as light sweet heavy etc. These are based on sulfur content and other things. refineries can not handle all forms of crude. One of the driving issues with pipelines is getting product to the proper refinery in the cheapest way.

    Environmental issues complicate it even more. I can't find the epa source quickly but at this point there are something like 47 different blends approved to me a variety of air quality issues across the country. This further increases the issues related to matching product and production.
    The proposed pipe line will carry Canadian produced bituminous crude from tar sand. That can be sold wherever. Later, entry points for US shale crude, light sweet crude, will be added in Montana and OK which will be regulated relative to export.

    While some of the mid-west shale oil might be restricted for export, once it's refined ........ it will go to the highest priced markets. That doesn't mean a lot of money for the folks at home.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  11. #11
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Fly Over Land
    Posts
    10,646
    Frankly for some time we have been talking past each other. My apologies for being inarticulate and good night.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  12. #12
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    "Big Bend" TX
    Posts
    8,861
    If that pipeline was really intended to make the US more energy independent it would terminate at refineries located suitable for shipment to locations throughout the United States: locations like the Dakotas or Omaha, or Kansas City. Extending the pipeline to a port location on the Gulf of Mexico as proposed certainly positions the petroleum for export overseas but is not centrally located for distribution to make the US energy self sufficient.

    If the justification for the pipeline is, as claimed, the need and policy to make the US energy self sufficient then the physical reality ought to match the policy and claimed justification. It doesn't.

    Fool us once shame on you. Fool us repeatedly, shame on us.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Eastern KY
    Posts
    3,315
    I'd rather rant about the price of gas. In my area it's never as high as the national average & usually a bit higher than the cheapest places but lately it has been above? What gives? My politicians promised to "fix the fixing"?
    FWIW, I like "the Keystone pipeline" as a job source for the people building it(many are from my area of KY who are working in the Dakotas now) but not as an energy independent factor. I've never lived in a place that didn't have pipelines running every which way, so in my simple mind it seems like just another ditch to me?
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  14. #14
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
    FWIW, I like "the Keystone pipeline" as a job source for the people building it(many are from my area of KY who are working in the Dakotas now) but not as an energy independent factor. I've never lived in a place that didn't have pipelines running every which way, so in my simple mind it seems like just another ditch to me?
    Let me ask you this.....did supplying migrant labor to the US, Canada, Australia or Africa make Italy, Poland, Ireland or southern Germany more affluent in the late 1800's? Or, in today's world, is Haiti, Guatemala or Mexico really enriched by their people that have to leave to find work?
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  15. #15
    IBA #44567 Ken F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    SW, MO
    Posts
    1,220
    From Wikipedia: The Keystone Pipeline System is a pipeline system to transport synthetic crude oil and diluted bitumen ("dilbit") from the Athabasca oil sands region in northeastern Canada to multiple destinations in the United States, which include refineries in Illinois, the Cushing oil distribution hub in Oklahoma, and proposed connections to refineries along the Gulf Coast of Texas. The 2,147 mi. long pipeline runs from Hardisty, Alberta to the United States refineries in Wood River, Illinois and Patoka, Illinois. The Canadian section involves approximately 537 mi of pipeline converted from the Canadian Mainline natural gas pipeline and 232 mi of new pipeline, pump stations and terminal facilities at Hardisty, Alberta.
    The United States section is 1,379 mi long. It runs through Buchanan, Clinton and Caldwell counties in Missouri, and Nemaha, Brown and Doniphan counties in Kansas. Phase 1 went online in June 2010.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From what IÔÇÖve been able to find, last year the U.S. imported 7.6 million barrels a day-40% of those imports come from OPEC nations such as Venezuela, Iraq and Nigeria. Keystone is expected to supply 830,000 million barrels a day, which would be a huge step toward the long-standing goal of American energy independence.
    That would still reduce our crude imports by 0.83/7.6=10.9%, and be much cheaper than the imported oil from Venezuela or the middle east!
    There are already tens of thousands of miles of oil pipelines that crisscross the United States. Iike it or not, this country has vehicles that rely almost exclusively on gasoline and diesel.
    Pipelines have been proven to be the safest and most efficient way to move it, better than tankers, rail or trucking. And the pipeline will add to our national security, and help put Americans back to work. There will be an estimated 20,000 high-paying jobs (with benefits) created for construction, and an estimated 5,000 jobs involved in the operation, plus more than 118,000 spin-off jobs for local businesses along the route.

    If the Canadians cannot ship their surplus oil to the U.S.( their preferred customer) they will be left with no choice but to build a pipeline to their west coast and ship it by tanker to other markets, particularly China and Japan.
    I would much rather see this oil come to our refineries, where we have some of the strictest environmental regulations in the world, and where we will have some say about where the final products are shipped. Canadian oil is the most reliable, secure source of petroleum this country has. In 2010, the Canadian Tar Sands project was producing somewhere around 1.6 million barrels per day- more than several OPEC countries. They project that this number will double over the next several years, and no policy decision from the U.S. will stop them from selling their oil...........somewhere.

    I appologize to the OP for straying away from the E-15 topic.

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken F; 02-24-2013 at 05:07 PM.
    IBA #44567 Pres. Springfield BMW Roadriders
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
    -Albert Eienstein

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •