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Third Recall for New Motor GS

Does BMW not do any testing prior to selling a bike?
 
When bikes are tested, they were built with perfect parts by the best of the best. They accelerate the testing as much as possible. Many many things are found you never hear about. Then they source parts. Sometimes things slip thru. It can be as simple as tolerance an oil hole is specified at 1MM+-.2 But 1.2mm or .8MM causes a problem. Maybe the development department machines cam bores one way, and the vendor did them another, causing a problem even though they met specs. They test the bikes every day. So they do not discover that the fuel pump will stick when it sits a month. Or an additive in American car washes causes problems with switches. Suppose carbon gets harder when it sits, and builds up, causing detonation and the engine is destroyed. The wonderful space age plastic will crumble in 10 years. Stuff fails when exposed too vapor off the engine even though it is no were near fuel. Maybe you park outside, then later start up and put in garage, 30 seconds running and it will not start the next day. Yes all these things have happened in the real world and caused expensive recalls and hurt reputations. The carbon thing put OMC out of business. Cam bores in the OHC vette years back. More than one company caught by fuel pump and car wash things.

These are the things that testing will not uncover unless you test for many years, and put out obsolete products. It happens to everyone putting out state of the art equipment

Transportation testing is hard. It gets worse when all the older experienced guys get golden handshakes. Not an excuse, just the way it is.

Rod
 
Also you have new assembly lines with new people using new procedures and unfamiliar parts. Sometimes errors slip thru and aren't discovered until the units are out the door. Stuff happens.
 
Kinda what the whole idea of a 3/36 warranty is all about. Sucks not having your bike to ride, but, some things are gonna fail on new designs. It happens.
 
This is why I no longer buy first year models. I'm perfectly content with my 2012 GS Rallye and will wait until they get all the waterbugs flushed out...or maybe I'll just keep the Rallye. :)
 
No doubt BMW and every other interested party wish their product would pass with flying colors. Every manufacturer tests. Wouldn't testing by Transport Canada, NHTSA or any other certifying agency is a form of what in other arenas would be considered peer review before certification? The goal being validating the manufacturerÔÇÖs tests and or finding problems before certification.

I find it interesting that BMW is using (my assumption) as its first round of the certification process. I have not seen any recall information on any of the other sites I follow. If this is the case I wonder about the thought process that went into the decision and the length of time to certify the bike in other markets.

The advice not to buy first year models has been around for as long as I can remember. My budget has me buying used bikes so I can avoid the first year bugs and only have to deal with the ones inflicted on them by the previous owner(s). However, I am reminded of a recurring comment made by my father about ÔÇÿnew modelÔÇÖ cars and ones built on certain days etc. He put himself through college by working in a Ford plant. He held they built good and bad cars any year and on any day. Variations in parts suppliers to the plant for any part was more likely to affect the outcome than anything else. None of the technology involved with the new GS is revolutionary. It is largely a matter of new application of existing from what I can see.

All academic to me: as I said I buy used bugs.
 
One recall was for ASC program changes. Next recall was for a potential oil leak due to oil pressure buildup in the tranny. This third one is for a steering problem with the Telelever front end. So, it is apparent the issues are not directly related to the new engine design.

Certainly BMW tests, and tests, and retests. But like it was said, once a bike is on the production floor, supplier part issues, human errors, tooling issues, so many things can cause an issue. I used to work in chassis engineering at a large fire truck manufacturer. After all the testing, usually it was some human factor that caused any problems.

But given that, its not a bad idea to sit out the first year of a new model.
 
A complete and measured one-page discussion of the handling issue is contained in this post:

http://idratherberiding.com/2013/01...ccident-at-the-2013-bmw-r1200gs-press-launch/

cited in the ukgser forum mentioned by milo.

Lots of folks have ridden the new bike and loved it. The tankslap issue has now been reported by several experienced test riders, which suggests that this nasty result - the machine tested by UK's Bike Magazine oscillated so severely the steering limit stops were knocked off - is real if aberrational.
 
I don't take these issue's to heart as most manufacturers with a warranty are pretty good about fixing problems. But, why does it seem that these types of things happen more sporadically with Japanese bikes? Japanese cars too for that matter. I can't imagine BMW's engineers are inferior.
 
From what I've read, which translates to what BMW wants us to know, BMW does indeed have a comprehensive testing program. But it looks like it has not been quite comprehensive enough. When have you seen a BMW model bike that has had three recalls prior to most of the bikes being delivered to the dealership? I think it's going to be a great bike and I can see myself getting one, but please don't think that corporations don't at times push a little to get the new product on the market to start getting a return on the investment. BMW like any other corporation is here to make money even if it means taking the logo off our patch. (Which puts a smile on my face and reminds me of an old TV series. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKmJPnAGUJk . ) :)

E.
 
In their new RIDER, April 2013 issue with an intro of the new GS you might read Mark Tuttle,the magazines Editor, wherein he interviews Hans Blesse,VP of BMW Motorrad USA, r.e., the new R 1200 GS.
Tuttle :"They turned to the automobile division for help with the bikes suspension", where Blesse replies : " What we have is great synergy between the two divisions. There's expertise on the motorcycle side that the car division doesn't have and vice versa. So we have in the Fiz( BMW's design facility in Munich) at any given time, 7,000 of the best engineers in the world doing what they do, in this particular case, the car side had lots of experience with semi-active suspensions on the M cars. So our engineers had a chat with them about how to do this,..." and of course if you read the above posted recall info you know that even 7,000 BMW engineers(the best in the world?) just might have screwed up a bit?:brow
 
I don't take these issue's to heart as most manufacturers with a warranty are pretty good about fixing problems. But, why does it seem that these types of things happen more sporadically with Japanese bikes? Japanese cars too for that matter. I can't imagine BMW's engineers are inferior.


Why ?
 
The bikes that we will get in the states are only now being built. the Canada bikes have been there for months and belong to BMW Canada, probably not in consumer hands.
 
I don't take these issue's to heart as most manufacturers with a warranty are pretty good about fixing problems. But, why does it seem that these types of things happen more sporadically with Japanese bikes? Japanese cars too for that matter. I can't imagine BMW's engineers are inferior.

As a former mechanic/service manager and engineer, it really is not that uncommon, even with Japanese makes. All manufactures have problems, I was around the auto industry when Toyota launched Lexus, and you would not believe the issues they had, what was strange was the ES250 was just a tweeked Camry that they had built millions of them, and it had more problems than the all new ES400! Who thought that changing trim and some pieces to change the suspension would cause tons of issues. It was a big multi-line dealer, I was the Saab service manager, and while my mechanics fixed little annoying things, rattles squeaks etc, the Toyota service department constantly changed engines and transmissions.

But what the Japanese have is a GREAT PR department, remember when Lexus was the best, most reliable car ever made, and that was the perception BEFORE the first one was unloaded at the port! True story, the Lexus service department had a customer come in with about 25K on a Lexus with a motor knock. They pulled the dipstick an the oil looked like molasses, they couldn't find any service records, so they asked the customer where he was getting his car serviced, his reply was, more or less, I never had it serviced, that is why I bought a Lexus! All the company propaganda, and quality hype had this guy convinced that the car would never need fixing, which he interpenetrated as never needing service. The power of Propaganda (advertising)

As an engineering manager I always reminded my staff that "It's all connected" and one small seemingly innocuous change can cause a $hit storm of other issues.

I will just throw out one of a million possible scenarios on the oil seal issue. Prototypes and early production pieces worked great, but as production ramped up, the manufacturing engineers were looking to save a tool change on the CNC, to reduce cycle time. A change to the diameter of an oil passage was made which seemed innocuous, and tests looked like it was no problem........until.............. well you get the picture. "it's all connected"
 
I don't take these issue's to heart as most manufacturers with a warranty are pretty good about fixing problems. But, why does it seem that these types of things happen more sporadically with Japanese bikes? Japanese cars too for that matter. I can't imagine BMW's engineers are inferior.

Two of my engr. son's supervise other engr's, some of which are not the best around & I doubt BMW has a lock on the only good ones to be hired as that defeats logic. -it's a real world out there as we all well know...:brow Remeber the old adage,i.e., "there is one, everywhere you go" & out of 7,000 , I'll stick out my neck & say more than one...
Toyota managed to screw up the simple floormats in my latest & 4th Tundra. They had a floor hook to retain the first 3 versions I owned then when they did away with that hook the floormats slid under the gas pedal-wow, some stroke of Asian(or USA?) genius so the fix is a thin version that cannot jam the pedal but has the quality of a flea mkt special! I hide the heavy duty ones from the dealers (I bought with the truck) as they will destroy them & install thin crappy ones in their place. There is a certain dose of incompetence present at most locations around the world & some of us(maybe most of us) have worked with those people.
 
I can see some of the engine/transmission related issues that don't show up right away, but then again I wonder how thoroughly they were tested. But the front end is a whole different story. That is not really anything new, yes modified and changed but it is still based on the front ends brought out with the R1100 series of bikes.

They are not off to a good start and it will hinder sales and their reputation. There are options out there and bad press is bad press. I agree with the stay away crowd on the first year of just about anything, especially something as expensive as a bike/car.
 
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