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Thread: radar and laser protection

  1. #16
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommcgee View Post
    So you've been using the transmitter and I've been using the receiver for 30 years or more and why is it that I get your perspective and experience, while you don't get mine? Pop alerts are nothing new. When they happen, every good radar receiver in the neighborhood knows there is a cop in the area. Yeah, instant-on can be a hazard, but there's a high probability the cop is around the bend, on a cross street, or targeting someone else. I get alerts all the time before there is visual contact between me and John Law. You've said how you travel at 7 or 8 over, and plenty of towns where I live nail you for that on secondary roads. That's why I use a detector. I need to keep my license to earn a living and I want to know when there's somebody around trying to take it away from me -- my riding and driving is conservative, but I don't always have my eyes glued to the speedo. Never had a ticket when using the detector -- 50k miles a year for the past 35 years.
    I think the reason you and I don't see eye to eye is in your very own words "I want to know when there's somebody around trying to take it away from me -- ," refering to getting caught for speeding.

    Your comment paints the law enforcement officer as the bad guy "trying to take your license away" and the motorcyclist who is choosing to break the law as the good guy. Not a philosophy I'd ever wrap my head around, so we go our separate ways on this discussion.

    And it's not as black and white as "I transmit and you receive." I transmited only when it was time to document my evidence of excessive speeding, so my transmission is intended for an individual target. True - that signal can be detected by others in the vicinity who are also speeding; but after I have dealt with that motorist, I return to a stealth posture that all the radar detectors in the world can't discover until it's too late. That was my point.

    I realize I'm tilting at windmills here - those who wish to break speed laws will spend the $$$ and put their faith in detectors. Those who are charged with keeping roads safe will, with proper training, have no difficulty whatsoever defeating such 'defenses.' Age-old game of cat-and-mouse, except that with the ability of an LEO to withhold any detectable signal until needed, the 'cat' is now invisible.

    Sometimes, LEO's run radar to intimidate a large volume of traffic into slowing down - what we call passive enforcement, with no aggressive effort at issuing 'performance awards.' Other times, cops can just be lazy and leave their units on 24/7 - not hard to avoid those geniuses. Certain jurisdictions use strict enforcement as a revenue stream - I don't respect them any more than you do.

    But for the well-trained radar operator, not a gizmo out there will save you. Better to slow down and spend your $$$ on something else for the bike.

    As for the OP, I hope he finds the detector unit he wishes to spend his money on.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle & High Performance Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  2. #17
    jeepinbanditrider
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    I generally detect from a mile or more away from any transmitter. Even if you POP or Instant On and I get a blip I'm going to slow down till I see the threat/determine what made my detector blip for a second even if I have to "putt" around for a few miles.

    Watching traffic ahead of me helps a lot. The detector isn't a catch all ticket shield it's just another tool in the electronic warfare toolbox. If I'm looking ahead and see cars brake for no apparent reason in one lane or multiple lanes I'm slowing down cause around here there's most likely a FWPD car sitting over that hill that those folks just topped.

  3. #18
    Unfunded content provider tommcgee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    I think the reason you and I don't see eye to eye is in your very own words "I want to know when there's somebody around trying to take it away from me -- ," refering to getting caught for speeding.

    Your comment paints the law enforcement officer as the bad guy "trying to take your license away" and the motorcyclist who is choosing to break the law as the good guy. Not a philosophy I'd ever wrap my head around, so we go our separate ways on this discussion.
    That's the problem, Kevin, I don't run over the limit intentionally, but you assume I'm trying to break the law when the opposite is, in fact, the real story. The detector keeps me legal. As you recall, I was a military electronic tech, radar specialty, electronic countermeasures if you want to break it down further. Radar receivers work, you'd get no reading on your transceiver at all if they didn't.

    EDIT: Speeding tickets and every other citation are very expensive where I live, but it isn't the $85 ticket (or whatever the cost is (it's been a long time since I've had one). It's the insurance surcharges we get tagged with for the following six years, something like $135 per year times the number of vehicles registered. So any citation ends up costing $600+ per vehicle by the time it all scroll off. I will do everything I can to minimize that risk.
    Last edited by tommcgee; 03-04-2013 at 12:10 AM.
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    my experience

    thanks to all for the new information. In response to Kevin, didn't know you were from the dark side. Still like your column. If only the officers who have pulled me over were as reasonable as you. It is so easy on a motorcycle to go over the limit by 10 mph without realizing any movement in the wrist. A little warning and all the other posts will help. thanks to all. Ton

  5. #20
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ton123 View Post
    thanks to all for the new information. In response to Kevin, didn't know you were from the dark side. Still like your column. If only the officers who have pulled me over were as reasonable as you. It is so easy on a motorcycle to go over the limit by 10 mph without realizing any movement in the wrist. A little warning and all the other posts will help. thanks to all. Ton
    Thanks for the compliment. I too wish more LEO's took a more reasonable approach to speed enforcement, seeking out the idiots and just chatting with/warning all others. I found that those whom I warned the previous week were driving more responsibly when I saw them days later. I enjoyed getting chewed out regularly by my supervisors for NOT issuing as many tickets as many other officers did. Had to live with myself at the end of the day, you know.

    As a veteran LEO motor officer, touring enthusiast and MSF instructor, I'm well aware that it doesn't take much twist of the wrist to drastically alter your speed. I always enjoyed the opportunity to converse with a motorcyclist rather than cite him/her. In the final days of my career (May, 2006) NBC station WTMJ-Ch 4 out of Milwaukee actually followed me around and videoed my traffic stops while on my police Harley for speed violations, and compared and contrasted my approach with that of the Racine Co. Sheriff's Dept. (WI). Still have that clip on a DVD - I definitely was the guy you wanted to be stopped by!

    Ride Safe and Often.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle & High Performance Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  6. #21
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downs View Post
    I generally detect from a mile or more away from any transmitter. Even if you POP or Instant On and I get a blip I'm going to slow down till I see the threat/determine what made my detector blip for a second even if I have to "putt" around for a few miles.

    Watching traffic ahead of me helps a lot. The detector isn't a catch all ticket shield it's just another tool in the electronic warfare toolbox. If I'm looking ahead and see cars brake for no apparent reason in one lane or multiple lanes I'm slowing down cause around here there's most likely a FWPD car sitting over that hill that those folks just topped.
    Sad to see potentially life-saving speed enforcement labeled as "the threat...." There was a day when we were the good guys, but no longer in today's soceity. To me, that is what's sad.

    Nevertheless, by your title, I see you were a Marine. Thank you for your service. My son was with the 1st Battalion, 7th Marines out of 29 Stumps from 2000 - 2004. SEMPER FI.

    Now he is a US Army Sgt. (formerly 82nd Airborne) with the 4th Infantry Div. at Fort Carson (CO).
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle & High Performance Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  7. #22
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
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    Any time I ride I always try to remember to "keep my head in the game." That goes for all phases of riding including detecting LEO's. I do have a RD but consider my eyes a much more reliable source. Instant on is everywhere now. Unmarked cars with instant on are death. In urban areas VASCAR totally defeats any type of detection. After getting up to 10 points in a 12 point system, I decided to change my tactics. I pick where I speed more carefully. I factor in how much over the limit I will go compared to what I consider as the probability of detection. Part of that is I love twisties and LEO's are rare in good twisties unless some moron gives them a name like Dragon, Diamond Back, Back of the Dragon, Devils Triangle, or Snake. I love the Snake, and I have seen as many as 6 Tn State Troopers camped out on it, plus an occasional sheriff. So I just make a legal run, turn around and blast it. Do you know a 35 or 45 mph speed limit can still allow you to have a legal blast in the twisties.
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  8. #23
    jeepinbanditrider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    Sad to see potentially life-saving speed enforcement labeled as "the threat...." There was a day when we were the good guys, but no longer in today's soceity. To me, that is what's sad.

    Nevertheless, by your title, I see you were a Marine. Thank you for your service. My son was with the 1st Battalion, 7th Marines out of 29 Stumps from 2000 - 2004. SEMPER FI.

    Now he is a US Army Sgt. (formerly 82nd Airborne) with the 4th Infantry Div. at Fort Carson (CO).
    You see it as "life saving" most see it as revenue generation. Are there times where I believe people deserve to get a ticket? Yup. Flying though traffic at an excessive speed differential, school zones, ect. But I'd much rather see my tax money be put to use on writing tickets for stuff like driving in fog or rain with no headlights on, people not using their blinkers, left lane campers, ect. instead of picking out one car of a sea of cars all going the same speed (or there abouts) and they're all over the limit, then use the excuse of "well do you ever go fishing?...blah blah blah"

  9. #24
    Seattle-area Rounder OfficerImpersonator's Avatar
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    My only-partially tongue-in-cheek suggestion is to get a RTP. The only times I've been stopped while on the RTP, the officer wanted to know about my bike. Three times over 7 years and 60,000 miles of RTP riding, I've been stopped only so I can answer questions about where my bike came from, how I acquired it, etc.

    I have a riding buddy who has the TPX motorcycle-specific radar detector, and he HATES it with a passion. I, on the other hand, have a 7-something year old Escort 8500 in a "Legal Speeding" waterproof case and the previously mentioned LED alert gizmo mounted on top. I routinely "see" speed traps over hills, around corners, and from miles away. I've often encountered the county sheriff deputy in his cruiser with the oncoming traffic radar permanently on. I can "see" those guys from five miles away. The Escort 8500 units in my wife's car and in my truck have saved us thousands of dollars in speeding tickets and higher insurance rates over the years.
    Seattle, WA
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  10. #25
    Unfunded content provider tommcgee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    There was a day when we were the good guys, but no longer in today's soceity.
    Aww, come on, Kevin, we know you're a good guy.
    Salty Fog Rally 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, AND LOOKING FORWARD TO 2014!

    -Tom (KA1TOX)

  11. #26
    Seattle-area Rounder OfficerImpersonator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downs View Post
    But I'd much rather see my tax money be put to use on writing tickets for stuff like driving in fog or rain with no headlights on, people not using their blinkers, left lane campers, cell phone talkers/texters, make-up appliers, breakfast-eaters, tinted windows at nightect. instead of picking out one car of a sea of cars all going the same speed (or there abouts) and they're all over the limit, then use the excuse of "well do you ever go fishing?...blah blah blah"
    Had to add a few transgressions to your list of common offenses...

    My complaint is that the law enforcement agencies in my area seem to focus on speed violations as they're easier to prove in court. The fall-out is that they thus NEVER enforce prohibitions against talking on the phone while driving, or other far more serious offenses because it's "too hard" compared to writing a speeding ticket. In the Seattle area, we now have a large subculture of HOV lane violating/cell phone using drivers immune from these laws because our local LEOs won't enforce our prohibition against having tinted windows. Tinted windows give drivers immunity to do anything they want while behind the wheel. Eliminate tinted windows and you'll eliminate a whole bunch of other illegal and unsafe activity.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.37.430
    Seattle, WA
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  12. #27
    jeepinbanditrider
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    Edit-after re-reading this might be considred political. If so please feel free to delete or edit

    Quote Originally Posted by tommcgee View Post
    Aww, come on, Kevin, we know you're a good guy.
    Most cops are good guys. But with the proliferation of personal video cameras we get flooded with reports and videos of officers abusing their authority and then getting away with it even with video evidence on hand. They hide behind the thin blue line and are protected, but this sets a bad face on all police officers. It will continue to get worse until the good cops out the bad cops.

    I haven't been pulled over for a while but everytime I pass a cop all I can think in the back of my head is, "So is this the guy that is going to violate my civil rights today?".

    And there are lots of folks out there that think that way now. The police are now a force to be feared instead of one to be repsected. This is coming from a guy that has grew up in a military/law enforcement family with many memebers of my immediate family in law enforcement.
    Last edited by Downs; 03-04-2013 at 11:02 PM.

  13. #28
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downs View Post
    Edit-after re-reading this might be considred political. If so please feel free to delete or edit



    Most cops are good guys. But with the proliferation of personal video cameras we get flooded with reports and videos of officers abusing their authority and then getting away with it even with video evidence on hand. They hide behind the thin blue line and are protected, but this sets a bad face on all police officers. It will continue to get worse until the good cops out the bad cops.

    I haven't been pulled over for a while but everytime I pass a cop all I can think in the back of my head is, "So is this the guy that is going to violate my civil rights today?".

    And there are lots of folks out there that think that way now. The police are now a force to be feared instead of one to be repsected. This is coming from a guy that has grew up in a military/law enforcement family with many memebers of my immediate family in law enforcement.
    Ride safe and often.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle & High Performance Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  14. #29
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
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    A lot depends on where you are. I know lots of guys who ride WV and they will tell you the State Police are pretty good guys. They will also tell there are Barney Fife officers in small towns with radar guns who have one job, revenue generation. Then cross the border into VA. You don't see the any signs for change in speed limit. Any place that could possibly trap an out of state driver is heavily patrolled. If someone would push it they could put their entire VA police enterprise in jail for violation of RICO laws.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32232 View Post
    You can mitigate ticket risk without a radar detector. It's not that I don't ride fast, I do believe in having speed separation with surrounding traffic, and I'm the one going faster. Just not blatantly so. I'm not a big fan of riding with others, mostly because they generally ride slower than I like.

    I have always practiced "tactical riding". I probably pass 90% of the traffic and 10% passes me. There is a time and place to go fast. It doesn't include built-up areas, or where police potentially have cover on open stretches of road. With the current police radar and laser units that can be left turned off and then "blip" you, a radar detector doesn't help until it's too late.

    I probably get pulled over going "sensibly" fast every couple of years, but haven't gotten tickets as the officers didn't think the circumstances warranted a citation. I'm rarely dissatisfied I can't go fast enough, but haven't had a ticket in over 25 years. For me, money on a radar/laser detector would be wasted.
    I never seem to meet those "officers that don't think the circumstances warranted a citation"
    and FWIW, I quit using detectors some years back as it works better for me to pay close attention to my speeds-the fast roads/slab as riders call it do get away from you at times even at that.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

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