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AAA Warning on Ethanol

sickticket

New member
I listen to NPR while at work and AAA is now warning motorists that the shift from E10 (10%) to E15(15%) ethanol will damage our vehicles and void warranties. The higher percentage of ethanol will damage fuel systems over time.
The members of MOA are far better informed than I am about our bike mechanical systems. What are the facts on ethanol on BMW fuel systems???
Is this a serious pending problem that we are looking at???
Thank you all in advance. I have learned so very much reading the threads on this forum.
 
Ethanol

E10 reeked havoc on my 2007 outboard motor that was supposedly designed to use ethanol. Also lawn mowers, chain saws and basically any gas engine you don't use almost daily.

I listen to NPR while at work and AAA is now warning motorists that the shift from E10 (10%) to E15(15%) ethanol will damage our vehicles and void warranties. The higher percentage of ethanol will damage fuel systems over time.
The members of MOA are far better informed than I am about our bike mechanical systems. What are the facts on ethanol on BMW fuel systems???
Is this a serious pending problem that we are looking at???
Thank you all in advance. I have learned so very much reading the threads on this forum.
 
As I understand it, the E15 blend is not mandatory for every vehicle. It is supposed to be a blend which the driver can select at the pump, just like any other octane rating. AAA's concern is people filling up at a pump with E15 might not be fully informed and could end up putting in a blend of fuel which will damage their car.

My concern at the moment is how they design the pumps which will dispense the E15 blend. Will any residual fuel in the piping/hoses of the fuel pump be purged after each use or will a residual amount of E15 remain in the lines for the next vehicle which pulls in?

If a residual amount of E15 remains, that means the E10 blends will be a fraction more the E10. If filling up a large fuel tank, that won't make much difference. However, if filling up a small tank, such as a motorcycle tank, it just might be harmful. Furthermore, If you are only topping off and the E15 isn't purged from the lines after the previous vehicle, the percentage of E15 going into your tank might be more.

Hopefully, as the EPA rams this harmful fuel down the public's throat, gas stations will retain pumps which don't dispense E15, sort of like stations which sell auto diesel -- not all their pumps have a diesel nozzle.
 
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That is an interesting thought. I was under the impression that it would be a complete switch from E10 to E15.
 
My concern a the moment is how they design the pumps which will dispense the E15 blend. Will any residual fuel in the piping/hoses of the fuel pump be purged after each use or will a residual amount of E15 remain in the lines for the next vehicle which pulls in?

This came up in earlier discussions. The proposed government "solution" was to require a four gallon minimum purchase to ensure dilution of the E15 left in the hose. This does not help much. Most of the bikes I've owned held less than four gallons total, and even on the RT I occasionally want to top off the tank when the location of the next station is uncertain. My lawnmower can is 2.25 gallon, the chainsaw/trimmer can is one gallon.
 
In my area most gas stations have three grades of gasoline and one dispensing hose. As mentioned, the fuel remaining in the hose may dillute the premium or mid-grad you think you are getting and are paying for. (At least the stations with diesel have a separate hose!)

With the addition of E15, will a station have to install another underground tank? Will E10 simply go away at most stations? Will anyone actually monitor the product being dispensed to ensure it is what it says it is? Will the EPA find more ways to screw up? Will pigs fly?*

pete

* With enough thrust pigs fly just fine.
 
In my area most gas stations have three grades of gasoline and one dispensing hose. As mentioned, the fuel remaining in the hose may dillute the premium or mid-grad you think you are getting and are paying for. (At least the stations with diesel have a separate hose!)

With the addition of E15, will a station have to install another underground tank? Will E10 simply go away at most stations? Will anyone actually monitor the product being dispensed to ensure it is what it says it is? Will the EPA find more ways to screw up? Will pigs fly?*

pete

* With enough thrust pigs fly just fine.

I always use a fuel stabilizer in all my marine engines and have thought about starting the same practice in my bikes and cars.
 
Ethanol may slowly go away since the price of crude has come down and corn prices have gone up in the last few years. Even with the massive government subsidies, it is unprofitable. Some ethanol plants are filing bankruptcy.

The farm lobby will have a hard time keeping their ethanol welfare given all the debt reduction talk.

There is a website where you can go to find out if you have any gas stations in your area that have non ethanol gas. Luckily, I found one near me.

My car gets 10 to 15% better mileage on non ethanol gas.

Interesting quote--"We are the only country that burns our food".
 
Ethanol may slowly go away since the price of crude has come down and corn prices have gone up in the last few years. Even with the massive government subsidies, it is unprofitable. Some ethanol plants are filing bankruptcy.

The farm lobby will have a hard time keeping their ethanol welfare given all the debt reduction talk.

There is a website where you can go to find out if you have any gas stations in your area that have non ethanol gas. Luckily, I found one near me.

My car gets 10 to 15% better mileage on non ethanol gas.

Interesting quote--"We are the only country that burns our food".

Based on the gas mileage I used to get in Iowa, I would think that the ethanol content was higher than 10%. I get better mileage in AZ and just about anywhere outside of Iowa.
 
Brazil!

Another country I hear burning Ethanol in larger quantities by far. I think the political link to E Gas has been our biggest mistake and it should have died years ago. Never has been able to live on its own, without subs...Ya'll think its bad around the USA, try California and our CARB folks dishing out regs that are beyond describing! Ugly here:(. My GSA gets such horrible mpg's here in CA., I get sick thinking about it...and do have very extensive travels on the GSA to prove my point. E Gas and the CARB folks formulate the CA gas to death. NOW, this topic is a politcal one we should wish went elsewhere, but does indeed affect our Beemers and our wallets to a degree we hate so. Its firewater and very hot item these days. Randy:banghead
 
Since this has no specific Hexhead/Camhead content, it's being moved over to Motorrad where it may see more exposure.

Hang on.. (and please keep keyboards and hands inside the post while the post is moving - for your safety and protection.. :bolt )
 
I smile too:)

I like the humor, which is surely needed more often. I'd rather laugh anyday, vs some issues that seem to need squeezed out occasionally. Its all in fun,yes? My bikes are my last frontier of staying sane:). Randy:thumb
 
It sounds to me a bit like the approval or non-approval of the the E15 may be political in some way as much as technical. BMW, Benz, and VW don't approve but Porsche does? How is it that the fuel system components of cars (and bikes) can survive 10% ethanol but will fail at 15%???
 
It sounds to me a bit like the approval or non-approval of the the E15 may be political in some way as much as technical. BMW, Benz, and VW don't approve but Porsche does? How is it that the fuel system components of cars (and bikes) can survive 10% ethanol but will fail at 15%???

If it doesn't say FlexFuel...
 
It sounds to me a bit like the approval or non-approval of the the E15 may be political in some way as much as technical. BMW, Benz, and VW don't approve but Porsche does? How is it that the fuel system components of cars (and bikes) can survive 10% ethanol but will fail at 15%???

1. Excess heat - ethanol burns hotter than petrol, thus more heat to dissipate
2. not all solvents are created equal. Even gaskets designed to "tolerate" ethanol may survive much longer with e10 than e?? though any gasket chemically formulated to be doused in the cocktail of petrol (aromatics and aliphatics) might not behave well if put into alcohol
3. co-reactions/side reactions of ethanol happen due to the more chemically reactive groups on the ethanol molecule.
4. water will naturally adhere to ethanol from the atmosphere. More ethanol --> more water, less combustion, yadda yadda yadda.

too many variables, especially since e10 is rarely 10% ethanol as it is. If the fudge factor for e10 is +5% /- 1%, imagine how much it gets to be with e15. They aren't allowed to go below the ethanol content, but they can go above.
 
so for those of us using small(er) gas tanks, older vehicles, etc. the "take-away learning" from this will be "never buy fuel that dispenses from a single hose for multi-grade dispensing".
unfortunately, when in the middle of EBF Idaho... well, we might not have any options.
 
I try to buy gasoline that is ethanol free if I can. What really would be interesting is what is the reduction in power caused by ethanol is gasoline and how much energy is used to produce ethanol? My suspicion is less power and a large amount of energy used in producing ethanol, so that it may not be as good for the environment as claimed.

I don't want to redirect this thread, but am curious about the above issues. Another thread or references that would clarify this issue would be appreciated.
 
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