Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4
Results 46 to 56 of 56

Thread: Man down, what a mess

  1. #46
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    "Big Bend" TX
    Posts
    8,933
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicVW View Post
    Hopefully he learns that he is seriously lacking in either riding skills or paying attention skills and addresses those factors before he ever rides again, IF he ever rides again.
    Based on everything we don't know, that might be a bit harsh. If I took the same attitude toward a number of folks I know, some on this list, there would be a bunch fewer riders out there for sure.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  2. #47
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Posts
    788
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Based on everything we don't know, that might be a bit harsh. If I took the same attitude toward a number of folks I know, some on this list, there would be a bunch fewer riders out there for sure.
    True, we don't know a lot and maybe what I wrote is a bit harsh, but I think a one-vehicle crash backs me up. Ruling out a sudden mechanical failure, it has to be the rider's fault. I'm not saying he shouldn't ever ride again, I meant if he's physically able to.

  3. #48
    Proud Veteran SteveAikens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Clovis, NM
    Posts
    945
    I tend to agree with Paul. Many here seem to feel they can read about a crash and have enough details to make a judgement call to the cause.

    Doing motorcycle crash reconstruction when I was in the Air Force proved to me what facts you could determine from what you read in a report were often very far from the actual facts to the cause.

    Quick note on my OPINION: I previously SPECULATED that his Harley may have touched down and his inexperienced reaction my have been to become startled, causing him to over-react and try to lift the bike back off the road surface enough to - in his mind - prevent a crash, which ultimately prevented him from negotiating the curve. I made that speculation based on crashes of Harleys with inexperienced riders. I don't know what model Harley he was on but if it had floorboards, the probability of that goes up. Experience tells you scraping pegs and floorboards is no big deal generally, but to a newer rider, it can be scary enough they lose focus and over-react.

    Here's an example of just that." This was also at low speed. Note that in frame 10, his bike touches down on the right - what follows is exactly what can happen if you over-react.
    Nom de Plume:
    Steve Aikens, Clovis, NM
    BMW MOA #6218
    IBA# 442

  4. #49
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Posts
    788
    Not speaking about this crash in particular, but if you rule out another vehicle as well as sudden mechanical failure, then whose fault is it? No one's? Is it "just one of those things?"

    I also investigated crashes for many many years and you can find the first event if you really need to or want to. In this case the authorities may have just scooped him up and transported him and no investigation was done just a quick report.

  5. #50
    TravelsWithBarley.com
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Stowe, Vermont
    Posts
    1,036
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveAikens View Post
    Quick note on my OPINION: I previously SPECULATED that his Harley may have touched down and his inexperienced reaction my have been to become startled, causing him to over-react and try to lift the bike back off the road surface enough to - in his mind - prevent a crash, which ultimately prevented him from negotiating the curve. I made that speculation based on crashes of Harleys with inexperienced riders. I don't know what model Harley he was on but if it had floorboards, the probability of that goes up. Experience tells you scraping pegs and floorboards is no big deal generally, but to a newer rider, it can be scary enough they lose focus and over-react.
    This sort of thing is what I've observed many times. Cruisers are the most popular style of bike sold right now, and it seems logical that they would also have more than their share of new riders. If I can't safely and quickly pass someone who is clearly not handling curves well I assume he's new at the game and will back way off so he doesn't feel pressured to go faster.
    '07 R1200GS for solo rides
    '10 R1200GSA with Hannigan dual sport sidecar for rides with Barley

  6. #51
    Polar Opposite
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Tucson/Haines, AK
    Posts
    57
    I can tell you it was a Road King. When we loaded the bike for transport it was in second gear and I had a hard time getting into neutral because the roll bars had pushed back and locked the shifter. I did not see any evidence of the foot pad scraping so I do not believe he dragged the hard parts. One other interesting thing was when the EMT's showed up the bike alarm was sounding and we could not figure how to turn if off. The EMT proceeded to take a set of wire cutters and cut the entire harness. As it turns out it did not hurt the situation as the bike is a total loss.

  7. #52
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ft Atkinson Wisc
    Posts
    97

    just a few thoughts

    My youngest son and I went to National Norton Rally in Utah some years ago. We were riding back to the rally site after the sun had set. Doing the speed limit on a four lane coming out of town, I saw a deer along the side of the road. With in another mile or so, all I saw was the head of another one in my headlight beam. I thought he would have hit my right arm, it was that close. In another mile or two was a dead one along the road. I think that was the tap on the shoulder from God to slow down, and we cut our speed by 15 mph. No traffic anyway. My son only saw the first and third deer. The second one was in and out so quick that it didn't catch his attention and he was only about 60 feet back. The Nortons didn't have very bright lights. Could a vermin have run across the road after the second bike pass the place in the curve? My next thought is the gravel on the shoulder, My three children and my wife took the MSF course. Brian got off the highway in back of me, but low sided. I asked what happened. He was still using the front brake when he got off the pavement and didn't use more of the rear. So the front tire washed out on him. I asked all four of them and the each said they didn't remember it from the class. As they were no drag marks I can't say about the foot rest but, while riding a 106cc allstate I touched the foot peg down so hard that the rear wheel picked up off the pavement. It was on a right turn that went up an apron and across a sidewalk. I think I shook my head then but just grin now. I hope your friend heals well and rides again

  8. #53
    Rally Rat
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lancaster County, PA
    Posts
    1,529
    When riding with someone new, we always preach the "ride your own ride" and tell them we will not leave them behind, just look for us at intersections. I also tend to slow down on straight sections, as police are looking for cars to speed up where they can, and even a novice rider can usually speed up on a straight a way......

    We did an over night trip to WV/MD a couple weeks ago, had to change our destination due to a couple feet of snow in parts of WV, brought by "Sandy", but had a good time. One of the guys that went along is not as experianced, and we would just slow down once through the twisties or any time out route changed off the main/obvious path. This way he wasn't pressured and knew we would eventually be waiting for him. A fun and safe weekend for us all.

    On the other hand, there are a number of riders I have ridden with once, and know I will never ride with again. Some due to inexperiance, some due to stupidity. I figure if I carve a day out of my schedule to ride, it is my day, and I can't ever get it back, so why waste it riding with someone you have to babysit? If there is a mentoring relationship, or the wife is along (which makes it a social day) then that is differant, but a ride day is a ride day, and I don't get enough of them!

  9. #54
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Joplin, MO
    Posts
    999
    I have seen seen, and hit, the only slick spot in the road, it was less than a foot across, it was a damp well driven over road apple (horse dropping) . I did not go down or need new underwear, but had I been near max lean it could have made things drag. It could also scare a newer rider riding beyond his ability.

    If in a group you always announce ride your own ride. And then you ride very slow and spend a lot of time looking in your mirrors.

    To have fun, trade leader with other experienced riders and park for a bit, then catch up.

    This way you keep your friend safe and you still have fun.

    Rod

  10. #55
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Maryland.
    Posts
    150
    There are a lot of custom Harley's with lowered rear ends that will catch the pavement when at angles that are fine for BMW bikes. Here is one video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYxU_lYBHpY

  11. #56
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    4,952
    I'd agree not to be "harsh" as regards the guy's riding skills, but would continue to be "harsh" as regards not wearing a full-coverage helmet.

    Even Valentino Rossi crashes.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •