• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

Veterans day

Navy dad, Stop for a moment here. There is no reason for you to apologise for starting the thread nor for the sentiment you expressed. It was not and is not "controversial".

I respect and accept Tom's opinion regarding the terms service and military service. He has that option to have that opinion because of his service and I will not deride him for it, because of his service to the country. He earned it including the right to decline the thanks of his peers and society. On the other hand do not take his refusal to include the wishes of the rest of his Brothers and Sisters in Arms. It is an individual thing.

The term "service" has been in use and in correct form, IMO, as related to time spent in the Military, placing one's self in harms way for the benefit of the country, population or our society if you will, from before WW1.

I do not equate the concept of working on some one's vehicle to the same level of commitment of a service member in the Armed Forces. While the term can be loosely applied to both situations the connotation for many of us, again IMO, is far different unless you decide to accede to the PC position. The English language has many words that can have multiple meanings depending on the connotation of their use. It does not make the term incorrect by itself.

I started my Military career, such as it was, in the early 70s. I did so for my own reasons and do not regret that choice. I watched and also experienced a bit of the disdain some of the "enlightened" folks of the time had for those of us who either by choice or circumstances were placed in the service. My time spanned that era into the beginning of society's recognition of what the folks in the Military were doing and sacrificing in order to serve. It really did follow along with Kipling's poem describing society and "Tommy".

My sig line sums up my feelings regarding Service in the Military and also for those who place themselves in harms way for strangers in the first responder role. While my own personal contributions may not merit the thanks of the those who did not serve I will gladly receive them in honor of those who's actions did deserve them and never got them. I didn't earn them, they did.

In short, please do not allow yourself to feel bad because one of us doesn't want the recognition. There are always others who did earn it and never got it and who would be grateful for it. Pass it on to them.
 
He or she is "in the service" is (or was) a common prhrase.

It's only ever used to refer to the Military.

While grammar police, etc., may reject the notion, the semantic jump to "thanks for your service" isn't wholly unwarranted.

It's a bit of a leap to conclude someone using the phrase isn't sincere in doing so. It doesn't accomplish much positive for sure.
 
Semantics aside, my thanks to all who "served". I gave four years during the Viet Nam "Conflict" (talk about semantics, we couldn't even call it a war). When I returned to the States I was "thanked" for my "service" by getting spit on at the bus station in New Jersey. While there is obviously at least one individual out there who (as is his right) takes offense at the word "service", I "served" and if our county (which could not do it upon my discharge) now wishes to thank me for my "service", I will acknowledge the intended sentiment with grateful appreciation without doctrinaire quibbling over their choice of words.
 
Holy cow! Accept the expression of gratitude in the spirirt it was offerered. If the use of a particular term irratates you then, please grin and bear it, and assume that no ill will was intended. I cannot imagine anyone ever uttered the phrase, "Thank you for your service." with the intent to offend.
 
This came from the net:

Sentences like "I would encourage all citizens to thank the veteran for their service" are part of the problem. A small step in de-glorifying war is to stop using "service" as a synonym for the military. The words we use are critical to our thoughts, which direct our actions.

Here's a simple non-invasive way to help those with trauma and everyone - use the word "military" in place of "service". I got tired of people saying "thank you for your service". I give them my card titled "Please Don't Thank Me For My Service". It goes on - "I was in the military, not the "service". Service is doing something good. Service is what the person does who fixes your car. When the word "service" is applied to the military, it helps to justify violence as a method of conflict resolution. Like "defending our freedom" or "bringing democracy", the word "service" is used to lower the barriers of aggression. The military solution to conflict is death and destruction. That's not service. Call it what it is - the military."

Posted by ARNY STIEBER on Oct 21st, 2012

I must disagree to some extent Tom. I certainly do not want to glorify war. I lost comrades and still suffer ills from my my time in the military, but the fact is that sometimes violent action is the only solution to a problem. Yes, too often it is used too soon or inappropriately, but sometimes it is the proper responnse. If our nation ever loses it's capacity and willingness to use military force to protect our interests we will be in dire straights. The wisdom to know when and how to use it must also be there. When I was entering the "service" my father, a career Army Officer and veteran of three years in WWII, two years in Korea and a year in Vietnam talked to me about the meaning of the word service. He described it as acting on behalf of a greater cause without considereration for what I would get in in return. I was proud to "Servive."
 
Navy dad, Stop for a moment here. There is no reason for you to apologise for starting the thread nor for the sentiment you expressed. It was not and is not "controversial".

I respect and accept Tom's opinion regarding the terms service and military service. He has that option to have that opinion because of his service and I will not deride him for it, because of his service to the country. He earned it including the right to decline the thanks of his peers and society. On the other hand do not take his refusal to include the wishes of the rest of his Brothers and Sisters in Arms. It is an individual thing.

The term "service" has been in use and in correct form, IMO, as related to time spent in the Military, placing one's self in harms way for the benefit of the country, population or our society if you will, from before WW1.

I do not equate the concept of working on some one's vehicle to the same level of commitment of a service member in the Armed Forces. While the term can be loosely applied to both situations the connotation for many of us, again IMO, is far different unless you decide to accede to the PC position. The English language has many words that can have multiple meanings depending on the connotation of their use. It does not make the term incorrect by itself.

I started my Military career, such as it was, in the early 70s. I did so for my own reasons and do not regret that choice. I watched and also experienced a bit of the disdain some of the "enlightened" folks of the time had for those of us who either by choice or circumstances were placed in the service. My time spanned that era into the beginning of society's recognition of what the folks in the Military were doing and sacrificing in order to serve. It really did follow along with Kipling's poem describing society and "Tommy".

My sig line sums up my feelings regarding Service in the Military and also for those who place themselves in harms way for strangers in the first responder role. While my own personal contributions may not merit the thanks of the those who did not serve I will gladly receive them in honor of those who's actions did deserve them and never got them. I didn't earn them, they did.

In short, please do not allow yourself to feel bad because one of us doesn't want the recognition. There are always others who did earn it and never got it and who would be grateful for it. Pass it on to them.

Well said, and NavyDad thankyou, from a 30 year vet...
 
I must disagree to some extent Tom. I certainly do not want to glorify war.

Those weren't my words, just posted them to illustrate that a whole bunch of us don't want thanks and the reasons are many. Like several others here, the thanks we got from our own countrymen after Vietnam was verbal abuse and more. That was the time a kind word would have been useful. 40+ years later I'll be gracious if someone says thanks to my face, but no one ever has.
 
It just dawned on me that my Uncle Walter has been alive for every Veteran's day that we have had! On 11/11/1918 he was 21 months old. Today he is still going strong at 95 and is a WWII Navy Veteran!
 
Navy Dad,

Please don't take my comments to be disparaging toward you. That was not at all my intent. Perhaps I'm from the "conflict" which was not much appreciated at the time therefore not a good barometer....it still seems to me however that it is being much overused and oftimes comes across (to me personally) as patronizing.
Thanks for the recognition of the members of our military and I take your thanks as sincere.
I've thanked servicemembers numerous times, but always try and do it in a very personal way and avoid the "standerdized Thanks for your service".
I guess that's just my personal view however.

I'm very happy that todays members are received much more graciously than we were.

Ken
 
Navy dad, Stop for a moment here. There is no reason for you to apologise for starting the thread nor for the sentiment you expressed. It was not and is not "controversial".

I respect and accept Tom's opinion regarding the terms service and military service. He has that option to have that opinion because of his service and I will not deride him for it, because of his service to the country. He earned it including the right to decline the thanks of his peers and society. On the other hand do not take his refusal to include the wishes of the rest of his Brothers and Sisters in Arms. It is an individual thing.

The term "service" has been in use and in correct form, IMO, as related to time spent in the Military, placing one's self in harms way for the benefit of the country, population or our society if you will, from before WW1.

I do not equate the concept of working on some one's vehicle to the same level of commitment of a service member in the Armed Forces. While the term can be loosely applied to both situations the connotation for many of us, again IMO, is far different unless you decide to accede to the PC position. The English language has many words that can have multiple meanings depending on the connotation of their use. It does not make the term incorrect by itself.

I started my Military career, such as it was, in the early 70s. I did so for my own reasons and do not regret that choice. I watched and also experienced a bit of the disdain some of the "enlightened" folks of the time had for those of us who either by choice or circumstances were placed in the service. My time spanned that era into the beginning of society's recognition of what the folks in the Military were doing and sacrificing in order to serve. It really did follow along with Kipling's poem describing society and "Tommy".

My sig line sums up my feelings regarding Service in the Military and also for those who place themselves in harms way for strangers in the first responder role. While my own personal contributions may not merit the thanks of the those who did not serve I will gladly receive them in honor of those who's actions did deserve them and never got them. I didn't earn them, they did.

In short, please do not allow yourself to feel bad because one of us doesn't want the recognition. There are always others who did earn it and never got it and who would be grateful for it. Pass it on to them.

Well put!! :usa
 
To some extent I want to intentionally hijack this thread with a modest proposal. A couple of weeks ago some friends and I were passing through the Atlanta airport and stopped in a restaurant to grab a bite to eat before we boarded. There was a group of 7 or 8 young sailors in uniform at a nearby booth. We quietly and anonymously asked their waitress to bring us their check. They finished their meal and were simply told the bill had been taken care of. As those of us (whether veterans ourselves or not) who have been financially blessed encounter our active duty servicemen along the way, we can thank them through our actions without a word and not just on Veteran's Day.
 
If you are a Veteran and have never been issued a heartfelt thank you face to face then you have never met me or my wife. I always have a handshake and a thank you for a Veteran. My wife, well let's just say you better be ready for a hug and getting roped into a two hour conversation. Moot, we have pulled the meal thing a few times ourselves. We do it because we care and I guess because we hope someone does it for our son. I know that caring for our military is the "in" thing to do right now and sometimes it does smack of political correctness. I'm not interested in being part of the "in" crowd and anyone who knows me will tell you I am about as far from politically correct as you are likely to find.
 
This came from the net:

Sentences like "I would encourage all citizens to thank the veteran for their service" are part of the problem. A small step in de-glorifying war is to stop using "service" as a synonym for the military. The words we use are critical to our thoughts, which direct our actions.

Here's a simple non-invasive way to help those with trauma and everyone - use the word "military" in place of "service". I got tired of people saying "thank you for your service". I give them my card titled "Please Don't Thank Me For My Service". It goes on - "I was in the military, not the "service". Service is doing something good. Service is what the person does who fixes your car. When the word "service" is applied to the military, it helps to justify violence as a method of conflict resolution. Like "defending our freedom" or "bringing democracy", the word "service" is used to lower the barriers of aggression. The military solution to conflict is death and destruction. That's not service. Call it what it is - the military."

Posted by ARNY STIEBER on Oct 21st, 2012

Actually, I suggest you shouldn't quibble about the offer of appreciation. As a 22 year veteran (w/4 combat tours), I am always happy to accept a gesture of appreciation for my military "service", regardless of how it is phrased. As long as the offeror is sincere in their offer and understands the sacrifice our veterans have made, why does it matter?
 
To some extent I want to intentionally hijack this thread with a modest proposal. A couple of weeks ago some friends and I were passing through the Atlanta airport and stopped in a restaurant to grab a bite to eat before we boarded. There was a group of 7 or 8 young sailors in uniform at a nearby booth. We quietly and anonymously asked their waitress to bring us their check. They finished their meal and were simply told the bill had been taken care of. As those of us (whether veterans ourselves or not) who have been financially blessed encounter our active duty servicemen along the way, we can thank them through our actions without a word and not just on Veteran's Day.

Bravo...and thanks from another vet. :)
 
8176784117_31a607d536_o.png
 
My son has twelve years in the "military" and plans on staying in. He has been through four trips to the Middle East, both Iraq and Afghanistan. He has a wife and two boys that he goes for long periods without seeing. I wasn't in the military; I have no idea what it gives or takes away from a person. I do know how hard it can be on a man or woman and their families to be separated for long periods especially when the man or woman is in a very dangerous situation. Yes this is the life he has chosen, it wasn't forced on him. On the other hand I have come to realize that all who are or have been in the military have dealt with these and other issues as well. It is for this reason that I offer my thanks. My thanks are sincere. I had no intention of starting such a debate and I apologize for any offense. Trust me, it won't happen again here or anywhere else.

1 - You have nothing to apologize for NavyDad.

2 - I appreciate your son's service and his family's sacrifice and hope he stays safe.

3 - I too served and accept your thanks in the spirit in which it was given.
 
Our church riding group asked our local VA hospital what our Vets could use, and were given a list of basic toiletry needs. Not sure why our federal government isn't providing body wash and tooth paste to the heroes who have served each and every one of us, but it seems that is what they need. We put the list out and collected a couple hundred pounds of needed items, then borrowed a Sprinter Van from the local Honda shop (our local BMW dealership isn't interested in anything we have going on) and took a trip to the "VA" to deliver the toiletries. We got to thank a number of our servicemen and women in person, and hear about where they served.

I chose college over the military, as due to color blindness, the Army couldn't be sure I'd make it into flight school, whereas a private college was happy to take my money before telling me I'd be restricted from night flight and never make it as a commercial pilot. I've spent my career in residential construction, while others have been on the front line protecting our freedoms. I am thankful to those of you who have served our country, whether you saw military action over seas or have been Stateside your whole career. My heart goes out to the parents who have watched their sons and daughters deployed, not knowing when/if they will return. My kids are now 22, 20 and 18. I can't imagine sending them off to the Middle East, not knowing what their fate would be. I just don't think it is worth it. I am honored that so many volunteer to take the fight there, so that it doesn't end up here.

Happy Veterans Day to all who have served, I appreciate your service and sacrifice.
 
Those weren't my words, just posted them to illustrate that a whole bunch of us don't want thanks and the reasons are many. Like several others here, the thanks we got from our own countrymen after Vietnam was verbal abuse and more. That was the time a kind word would have been useful. 40+ years later I'll be gracious if someone says thanks to my face, but no one ever has.

You know, I can respect a service members right, and desire, to decline any thanks
given them for the time served in uniform. Many that have served are of the mindset that praise or thanks is unwarranted for just doing their job. Some disagree with the politics that forced them to don the uniform to begin with, and this can be understood. Others may be morally opposed to the type of actions they may be forced to complete while serving our country. This too, is understandable I also understand the reasons to decline are variable and numerous as grains in a fist full of sand.

Voicing gratitude to our service members may be politically correct, but it could be signs of a decline towards the verbal abuse that Tom, and others have experienced in the past. Personally, the few verbal comments aimed at me always left me curious as to why the abuser would say something like that.

I like to think that showing gratitude towards others shows a moral and/or spiritual growth of a persons heart. It could at least mean our country is showing a little more wisdom and respect than just a few years ago.

Tell you what, Tom, if you ever make it out here to the wine country in Northern California, give me a call. We can ride up and tour the vineyards and maybe even enjoy a great meal. Knowing your feelings, I won't say thank you for your service, but please know my offer to ride with you is my way of saying thanks.
 
Personally, the few verbal comments aimed at me always left me curious as to why the abuser would say something like that.

Back in the day, when there was a draft and college / apprentice program deferments, some misguided people on the anti-draft side felt that opposing the choices the volunteers / draftees was somehow a show of morality. In my opinion, it was just misguided rationalization by young people who were desperate to avoid the war. Their actions were wrong.

As my friend Bob the Master plumber said,

".......my Dad was a plumber and joined the Marines in WW2. I knew I was going to be a plumber when I was in high school and no-one in my family went to college. College was for #####, not real men. I was happy to join the Marines, just like Dad. Vietnam was really bad and I lost part of my chin, cheek and neck, but I'm proud of what I did.

I wish it never happened and I know I was really stupid as a kid."

Bob died a few years ago from a bacterial infection in the chest. He lived a life and was lucky enough to be able to view the full-circle of the experience. He had few regrets, because he understood that many of our choices are due to fate and beyond our control. He was happy with the path he had traveled.

Best wishes to us all and thanks.
 
Last edited:
To some extent I want to intentionally hijack this thread with a modest proposal. A couple of weeks ago some friends and I were passing through the Atlanta airport and stopped in a restaurant to grab a bite to eat before we boarded. There was a group of 7 or 8 young sailors in uniform at a nearby booth. We quietly and anonymously asked their waitress to bring us their check. They finished their meal and were simply told the bill had been taken care of. As those of us (whether veterans ourselves or not) who have been financially blessed encounter our active duty servicemen along the way, we can thank them through our actions without a word and not just on Veteran's Day.

Outstanding!

Understands that "Walking the Walk" is what earns credibility. :thumb
 
Back
Top