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Thread: R1100R balking is Back!

  1. #1
    RD'nNH&AZ rdhudson's Avatar
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    R1100R balking is Back!

    I thought my new-to-me '98 R1100R was cured of its running problems. Now it starts up and runs like crud for about 5 minutes and then runs great. Once it has run for about 3 miles it has good power, it's smooth, has nice throttle response, and drops back to idle well at stops.
    When first started cold it lurches, balks, won't idle well, and has poor throttle response etc.
    It has just had the valves adjusted etc. at a dealer (6000 mile adjustment, new plugs) It has been run little in the past year+ and only 47 miles this summer until I bought it. I have put on 200 miles with gas treatment three times (injector cleaner, seafoam, techron) in proper proportion and gas added three times (High Test) with the tank full now. Bike has 6,475 mi.
    Help. What should I do next? Winter is getting close here.
    2002 F650GS, 1998 R1100R 75th anniversary edition, 1983 R80RT (just sold), 1959 R60 (in restoration), Honda CT90
    If you must make a mistake, make a new one each time.

  2. #2
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    My hunch is the engine temperature sensor is telling it the engine is hot, when it isn't.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  3. #3
    RD'nNH&AZ rdhudson's Avatar
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    This one?

    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    My hunch is the engine temperature sensor is telling it the engine is hot, when it isn't.
    Thanks Paul,
    Would that be: (12 61 1 341 602 TEMPERATURE SENSOR 0.13 1 $89.64) from the MAXBMW site?
    Or (12 60 1 341 387 OIL TEMPERATURE SWITCH 0.07 1 $55.36)?
    Or (13 62 1 465 108 TEMPERATURE SENSOR AIR (from 01/97) 0.06 1 $39.60)?
    I bet you didn't think I could be this ignorant! BTW I found the air temp sensor in the airbox but have not found either of the other two sensor's locations. My Haynes manual is on its way. I'll check the BMW repair manual I downloaded from the police site.
    Ralph
    2002 F650GS, 1998 R1100R 75th anniversary edition, 1983 R80RT (just sold), 1959 R60 (in restoration), Honda CT90
    If you must make a mistake, make a new one each time.

  4. #4
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    12 60 1 341 387 OIL TEMPERATURE SWITCH shouldn't be in your bike - discontinuted in production after 8/93


    12 61 1 341 602 TEMPERATURE SENSOR is what replaced it in 9/93. This should be the item in question. If I remember correctly, I think it is on top of the block, behind the alternator, on the right. I can't promise you will find it there, but I think so.

    EDIT: I'll put money that this is it, circled in red; might be a bit more under / next to the alternator than behind it, but on the right. You can also see part of why my '96 became a parts bike.




    13 62 1 465 108 TEMPERATURE SENSOR AIR is measuring intake air temp, not engine temp and probably isn't the culprit.

    I should have spares of 12 61 1 341 602 and 13 62 1 465 108 with about 20k miles on them from my '96 parts bike if you want to try them out.

    You may want to start by cleaning the contacts and plugging the switch back in to see if you can get lucky.

    Paul, Would this show up on the RID? Does a R1100R even have a RID or temp gauge?
    Last edited by rxcrider; 11-02-2012 at 02:13 PM.

  5. #5
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    What happened to your motor?

  6. #6
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    The previous owner had an unfortunate encounter with a coyote, followed closely by a telephone pole.

  7. #7
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    rxcrider has it right. Engine (oil) temperature - not ambient air temperature.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  8. #8
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    rxcrider has it right. Engine (oil) temperature - not ambient air temperature.
    Details, shmetails - but you are very right right and it does make a difference. When things are failing, it can make a very big difference.

    I'll refrain from discussing differences in intake air temp, SAE air temp and ambient air tiemp except to say that they aren't quite the same and because of its placement, inside the air filter, the air temp. sensor is measuring intake air temperature. On some engines, intake air temperatures can be much warmer than ambient air temperatures. This is especially true with many snow thrower engines. Enough with the tangent, back to the issue at hand:

    Does the engine oil temp sensor also operate the RID and could the issue show up there, or maybe not?

    Does a R1100R have a RID or engine oil temp. gauge? If the answer is no, the previous question doesn't matter much at the moment.

  9. #9
    RD'nNH&AZ rdhudson's Avatar
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    Can I test mine?

    Not to appear cheap (I am), can I test the output from these? Do they vary resistance or some other electrical value? Is there a site for specifications for the other sensors for these bikes? I am used to being able to get the codes from my cages, test components and replace the failing ones. Perhaps the mystery of the Motronic prevents this. I see only one code reader (a GS 911) which is too $ for me at this time. I understand swaptronics but resort to it only when I must. This sensor is $90 but it is MY $90 until I buy it. With only 6,500 miles and garage kept it seems doubtful that its the connector, do they rarely fail?
    I appreciate this and don't mean to be a PITA.
    2002 F650GS, 1998 R1100R 75th anniversary edition, 1983 R80RT (just sold), 1959 R60 (in restoration), Honda CT90
    If you must make a mistake, make a new one each time.

  10. #10
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    If your R1100R has a Motronic 2.2 ECU than a GS911 is a waste of money anyway. The GS911 can only read some very basic values like the fault codes and can reset them. You can read fault codes with a multimeter and reset them with a jumper so no need for an expensive electronic tool to do that unless you are in the bike repair business. The GS911 cannot display engine sensor values and so on for the 1100 series using the Motronic 2.2.

    It can do a LOT more on the 1150 bikes which have a Motronic 2.4 ECU and is a must have for R1200 bikes if you wrench them yourself IMO. Check the website for all the cool and useful stuff you can do with it.

    Yes the oil temp sensor on your bike is a resistive type device so you could measure the resistance cold and then measure it again hot. The ECU puts a voltage across it and measures change to get a reading.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  11. #11
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    A test would be a good idea. I think the engine oil temperature sensor is the most likely culprit given the description of how the bike runs once warmed up, BUT, it is possible that some other factor is making the engine run lean: way too lean and balky when cold but almost rich enough warmed up to seem to run OK.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  12. #12
    RD'nNH&AZ rdhudson's Avatar
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    The cure

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Wanderer View Post
    If your R1100R has a Motronic 2.2 ECU than a GS911 is a waste of money anyway. The GS911 can only read some very basic values like the fault codes and can reset them. You can read fault codes with a multimeter and reset them with a jumper so no need for an expensive electronic tool to do that unless you are in the bike repair business. The GS911 cannot display engine sensor values and so on for the 1100 series using the Motronic 2.2.
    Yes the oil temp sensor on your bike is a resistive type device so you could measure the resistance cold and then measure it again hot. The ECU puts a voltage across it and measures change to get a reading.
    I didn't realize this of course!
    I have now researched how this code reading is done with a multimeter and can do that. Thanks.
    Paul, I don't know enough to understand what else might be causing the balkiness so I will make sure the resistance changes on the temp sensor cold to hot and proceed.
    Thanks to you too.
    Ralph
    2002 F650GS, 1998 R1100R 75th anniversary edition, 1983 R80RT (just sold), 1959 R60 (in restoration), Honda CT90
    If you must make a mistake, make a new one each time.

  13. #13
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    If come up unsure of the results and would like to borrow my spare for a test, let me know.

  14. #14
    Bluenoser
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    On my R1100r you really had to make sure that the cables were adjusted properly, which included the choke cables, for it to run properly when cold. Give the bike a good sync and see if that helps.

    Look at the cables where they attach to the throttle bodies and as you apply the choke the butterfly should just move slightly. It doesn't take much movement. Also this affects the throttle position sensor reading which does tell the computer how much fuel to add.

    I'd try this first before I started throwing money at sensors.
    1971 R50/5 SWB with R75/6 drivetrain
    2013 DL650

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