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Thread: So I went and test rode a Victory Judge today....

  1. #16
    Polarbear Polarbear's Avatar
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    Bikes vs whatever!

    You consider a GWing a bike? Its a truck or luxury car on two wheels. I know they handle well but after riding my KLT1200 around NAmerica for 5 years, way over 6 figures on the odometer, I got BORED of the less than m/c feel. It too handled great, but its a piece of luxury and the so smooth engine and all that fairing, one cannot help but feel removed from an M/C. I did and moved back to seeing my engine and enjoying biking a lot more on another GSA. Just rode across country with a fellow on a Victory BIg twin 1700cc and he loved that bike, compared to his last HD Dresser. The Victory outperformed the HD, hands down and he was a high mileage HD guy. He towed a camper behind the Victory, which the HD struggled with. Not sure the model Victory, but it looked like a spaceship, faired so well it had to slip through the air like no other bike. Very different. We rode for three days together and I got a close up look at Victory1700, my first close encounter. Its FAR from a HD, not even close, except the VTwin design engine and its not that similar either if ya look. Randy

  2. #17
    Themason 42906's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarbear View Post
    You consider a GWing a bike? Its a truck or luxury car on two wheels. I know they handle well but after riding my KLT1200 around NAmerica for 5 years, way over 6 figures on the odometer, I got BORED of the less than m/c feel. It too handled great, but its a piece of luxury and the so smooth engine and all that fairing, one cannot help but feel removed from an M/C. I did and moved back to seeing my engine and enjoying biking a lot more on another GSA. Just rode across country with a fellow on a Victory BIg twin 1700cc and he loved that bike, compared to his last HD Dresser. The Victory outperformed the HD, hands down and he was a high mileage HD guy. He towed a camper behind the Victory, which the HD struggled with. Not sure the model Victory, but it looked like a spaceship, faired so well it had to slip through the air like no other bike. Very different. We rode for three days together and I got a close up look at Victory1700, my first close encounter. Its FAR from a HD, not even close, except the VTwin design engine and its not that similar either if ya look. Randy
    I haven't seen the drivers of any car or truck poke a knee out in corners like this Goldwing pilot did. Whatever you consider it, and I would never myself consider owning one, it spanked a well ridden R1 and VFR that day on some twisty pavement, left me like a bad habit and I'm no slouch on that road either.
    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwestly View Post
    I can tell you through a great deal of experience that if you know how to ride it, the GL1800 Gold Wing is an exceptionally good handling motorcycle.
    A stock GL1800 GW has 5.5" of front fork travel. When you take it off the center stand, it sags 3.5" inches. Leaving 2" of travel. Use the front brakes and the "antidive" mechanism in the left fork hydrolocks the last 1" of travel. So under braking, you only have 1" of suspension travel. Again, this is stock and in this form, the Goldwing does not handle well. It sucks.

    A buddy of mine let me ride his and it was scary. It would hammer you through the handlebars, was not stable in curves and just never felt good on either backroads or freeway. We talked it over, I did some research, and he bought the new Progressive GW suspension (about $325, cartridges and springs) and a Kurayaken (sp?) fork brace and we installed them a couple of weeks ago.

    NOW it's an awesome bike. He just got back from a 1K mile trip and had nothing but praise for how the bike handles. But the stock GW suspension sucks. Those riders on the Pacific Coast likely had the Traxxion Dynamics suspension (about $1500). I think that's what Yellow Wolf runs. Google yellow Goldwing tail of the dragon and watch the videos. The guy and the bike are phenomenal with the modified suspension.

  4. #19
    Polarbear Polarbear's Avatar
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    Huge following;

    The Wings ar a huge piece of m/c travel today. Riders come in all shapes, styles and TALENT. I too have seen the big bikes outperform many smaller, well handled bikes. Not many though, as these are rare riders that can pace a 900# bike through whatever. I did the BIG bike phenom for years and its a non bike to me and my life anymore. Its also said about my current GSA1200 and the dirt places I ride it! You went where on that? Its still nice we have such a selection to choose from, so many bikes out there. Randy

  5. #20
    Themason 42906's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHGilbert View Post
    A stock GL1800 GW has 5.5" of front fork travel. When you take it off the center stand, it sags 3.5" inches. Leaving 2" of travel. Use the front brakes and the "antidive" mechanism in the left fork hydrolocks the last 1" of travel. So under braking, you only have 1" of suspension travel. Again, this is stock and in this form, the Goldwing does not handle well. It sucks.

    A buddy of mine let me ride his and it was scary. It would hammer you through the handlebars, was not stable in curves and just never felt good on either backroads or freeway. We talked it over, I did some research, and he bought the new Progressive GW suspension (about $325, cartridges and springs) and a Kurayaken (sp?) fork brace and we installed them a couple of weeks ago.

    NOW it's an awesome bike. He just got back from a 1K mile trip and had nothing but praise for how the bike handles. But the stock GW suspension sucks. Those riders on the Pacific Coast likely had the Traxxion Dynamics suspension (about $1500). I think that's what Yellow Wolf runs. Google yellow Goldwing tail of the dragon and watch the videos. The guy and the bike are phenomenal with the modified suspension.
    Neither my friends nor I were able to hang with that Goldie on Coast Highway long enough to suss out whether or not it had a modified suspension, lol. That the rider was in full racing leathers with hard knee pucks, and was hanging off to effect, was to us telling.
    On public roads, beyond a certain level of capability on the part of the motorcycle, the rider counts far more than the bike. Like I said, your mind can only process and respond to inputs so fast, even if the bike might be faster. I'm sure any of us could have taken him on a race track, but not on Coast Highway that day with traffic and all the other considerations of public roads hanging from a cliff hundreds of feet over the Pacific Ocean.
    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1200RClassic View Post
    And all I can say is "yawn"...

    For $14K base price, I expected a lot more ... and for 1700+ cc, I expected a lot better zing! The best thing that came from my test ride is a reinforcement of my original decision to buy the R1200R..

    I went to this free ride event with a friend who's been torn between a Harley and Victory for the past year... I told him it's easy... just buy a BMW!
    So your point is !!!!. I've owned both BMW R1100R's and Harleys ( currently own a Harley & Airhead ). BMW & Harley are totally different bikes and it doesn't make much sense to compare either one against each other. They both have their good & bad points.

    Must have been a quiet day.
    1971 R50/5 SWB with R75/6 drivetrain
    2013 DL650

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycleman2 View Post
    So your point is !!!!. I've owned both BMW R1100R's and Harleys ( currently own a Harley & Airhead ). BMW & Harley are totally different bikes and it doesn't make much sense to compare either one against each other. They both have their good & bad points.

    Must have been a quiet day.
    None sense, they're both motorcycles and both "naked type" standed bikes.

    Everything from the hardware and materials to the way it rode was vastly inferior. Braking, handling, acceleration, etc. and please don't compare an 1100 or airhead to the current r1200's. Not even close in just about every way.

    So to answer your question about what my point was. The Judge sucked.
    Last edited by R1200RClassic; 08-30-2012 at 04:34 PM.

  8. #23
    P Monk
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    airhead?

    Quote Originally Posted by R1200RClassic View Post
    and please don't compare an 1100 airhead to the current r1200's. Not even close in just about every way.

    So to answer your question about what my point was. The Judge sucked.
    I have never seen an 1100cc airhead. Where have I been?
    It is kind of rediculous to compare the Judge to an R1200. The Judge is all about styling (that I don't like). The R1200 is all about riding. To a person who's main concern is how he/she looks on a bike, a BMW would look awful. A serious rider would never appreciate a bike that is more suited to finding a reflection in a glass so you can admire yourself or your bike.

    That said I really feel that Victory had a chance to build a great touring motorcycle but decided that the Arlen Ness styling was more important than the touring function of the motorcycle. However the new Crossroads and Crosstour models are an improvement.

    I guess the key to being happy with a motorcycle is matching the bike to your needs.
    My problem is I like too many motorcycles that my wife says I don't need!
    P. Monk
    74 R90/6 (also know by bride as the Black Hole). 09 R1200 GS. My wife, 1953 model who has survived aplastic anemia and a bone marrow transplant.

  9. #24
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    Way back in the late 70's or so I was riding motocross. 250. L ocal stuff, nothing fancy. At a track in NC Brad Lackey showed up to promo for his team. He ca me out on a 250 "professionally prepped" or at least that was our excuse, and dogged us all in practice session. Had never seen the track. And made it look effortless. Some folks just got it

  10. #25
    Themason 42906's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycleman2 View Post
    So your point is !!!!. I've owned both BMW R1100R's and Harleys ( currently own a Harley & Airhead ). BMW & Harley are totally different bikes and it doesn't make much sense to compare either one against each other. They both have their good & bad points.

    Must have been a quiet day.
    With the exception of two V-Rod models and the XR-1200, every single aspect of a Harley Davidson is inferior to a BMW motorcycle. Everything, without exception. Look, I've ridden Dynas, baggers, Sportsters and V-Rods (I own two Street Rods). The R-1200RT is so superior to any traditional cruiser or touring bike Harley makes comparing a Harley to the R-12 is laughable. Anyone who does is so far gone you can't take them seriously. No, really.

    Heck, the R-1200RT is lighter, has more power and more cornering clearance than the XR-1200. How pathetic that Harley's best performing model is humiliated by a fully faired and saddlebag equipped touring bike.

    Buying a traditional Harley, you're buying an image, and you are sacrificing function to (maybe) look good, and you don't look good to everyone. Those of us who know the difference are silently, and sometimes not silently, laughing at you. What a fool to toss good money at such garbage.
    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 42906 View Post
    With the exception of two V-Rod models and the XR-1200, every single aspect of a Harley Davidson is inferior to a BMW motorcycle. Everything, without exception. Look, I've ridden Dynas, baggers, Sportsters and V-Rods (I own two Street Rods). The R-1200RT is so superior to any traditional cruiser or touring bike Harley makes comparing a Harley to the R-12 is laughable. Anyone who does is so far gone you can't take them seriously. No, really.

    Heck, the R-1200RT is lighter, has more power and more cornering clearance than the XR-1200. How pathetic that Harley's best performing model is humiliated by a fully faired and saddlebag equipped touring bike.

    Buying a traditional Harley, you're buying an image, and you are sacrificing function to (maybe) look good, and you don't look good to everyone. Those of us who know the difference are silently, and sometimes not silently, laughing at you. What a fool to toss good money at such garbage.
    best way for me to put it would be like taking a 1978 Cadillac Eldorado vs a 2012 BMW M5... it's that dramatic.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpmonk View Post
    I have never seen an 1100cc airhead. Where have I been?
    the missing conjunction there was "or"

  13. #28
    Bluenoser
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    Quote Originally Posted by 42906 View Post
    With the exception of two V-Rod models and the XR-1200, every single aspect of a Harley Davidson is inferior to a BMW motorcycle. Everything, without exception. Look, I've ridden Dynas, baggers, Sportsters and V-Rods (I own two Street Rods). The R-1200RT is so superior to any traditional cruiser or touring bike Harley makes comparing a Harley to the R-12 is laughable. Anyone who does is so far gone you can't take them seriously. No, really.

    Heck, the R-1200RT is lighter, has more power and more cornering clearance than the XR-1200. How pathetic that Harley's best performing model is humiliated by a fully faired and saddlebag equipped touring bike.

    Buying a traditional Harley, you're buying an image, and you are sacrificing function to (maybe) look good, and you don't look good to everyone. Those of us who know the difference are silently, and sometimes not silently, laughing at you. What a fool to toss good money at such garbage.
    Exactly the reason for not comparing a Harley & a BMW R1200. It's pointless. Both brands of bikes are aimed at totally different riders and neither bike is garbage and believe me 50+ % market share is not all about image. I like both Harley & BMW bikes but for different reasons. In my part of the world I see way more HD bikes touring on the highway than any other brand of bike.

    I never have gotten the brand bashing thing, as to what you or I ride doesn't matter, what matters is that we both ride a motorcycle. Somewhere along the way that has gotten way off track.

    I'm not your classic motorcycle rider, having come from a MSF background, wear the GATT, including full face helment all the time, ride a stock bike ( no loud pipes etc ). The reason I currently own and ride a HD Softail is that it is not top heavy when loaded two up ( important as I age & have limited inseam ) and it made me slow down and smell the roses as my wife says, probably the most important thing and there is no doubt it is a motorcycle that doesn't pretend to be something it isn't.

    Ride what you want and respect other riders. There choice is their own and be thankfull there is no end of great motorcycles out there to ride.

    Enough said - Ride safe.
    1971 R50/5 SWB with R75/6 drivetrain
    2013 DL650

  14. #29
    2011 R1200RT ka5ysy's Avatar
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    +1 with Cycleman2.

    I teach Riders Edge classes (Harley version of the MSF course) for our local Harley dealership. The interesting thing is that we have 12 active instructors, and only two have a Harley. That makes for some interesting discussions when two of us pull up on BMW's, me on the RT and Skip on the GS.

    I get to ride the Harley's doing escort duty on demo days, and they are nice bikes but they are just not my kind of ride. I love the V-Rods, except for the foot-forward controls which I cannot stand.

    The folks I ride with have everything from small Vespa scooters to full superbikes, and we all get along fine.

    Our dealer make a point of noting that the motorcycle parking area is marked "Motorcycles Only" and not "Harley's Only". If you are on two wheels, you are welcome to park and visit.
    Doug, 2011 R1200RT Polar Metallic
    MSF #127350 NAUI #36288

  15. #30
    Registered User Rinty's Avatar
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    All I can say is "yawn"...R1200RClassic
    Rider Magazine's testers preferred the Fat Bob, in their comparo.

    ...left me like a bad habit...42906
    The late Gordon Jennings used to pass sport bike riders on his Yamaha Venture Royale.

    It's fun to try to hang with a faster rider for a few corners, after they pass you.

    But just a few.
    Rinty

    "When you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there."

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