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Yet another issue with my 2012 K1600 GT

This sort of failure is from the spragg clutch that disengages the starter when the engine starts. Replacing the starter motor will not fix anything. Crankcase split time.

Don't let this go.

Rod

+1, Gunny; make that dealer replace that defective spragg clutch right NOW, go to BMW NA ASAP and report this problem to them directly!
 
+1, Gunny; make that dealer replace that defective spragg clutch right NOW, go to BMW NA ASAP and report this problem to them directly!

BMW NA is exceptionally difficult to deal with when it comes to problems that cannot be replicated. Like impossible difficult. They simply won't authorize "ghost" repairs. I (meaning the dealership) ate a number of repairs over the course of time out of empathy for the customer. They have a point as if it cannot be replicated how do you know with certainty you're replacing the correct part? However, after a certain point how long are you going to abuse a customer who spent $20k for their motorcycle? It's an extremely difficult scenario for all parties involved but it's important to put yourself in the customer's shoes. More so given the mileage between dealers and the sometimes unbelievable inconvenience for the customer.
 
When I worked in an independent Apple shop, we had situations like this that were handled with the right amount of voltage to a particular part. That way Apple couldn't say they couldn't find the problem with the computer (if doing a depot repair) or a part.
 
BMW NA is exceptionally difficult to deal with when it comes to problems that cannot be replicated. Like impossible difficult. They simply won't authorize "ghost" repairs. I (meaning the dealership) ate a number of repairs over the course of time out of empathy for the customer. They have a point as if it cannot be replicated how do you know with certainty you're replacing the correct part? However, after a certain point how long are you going to abuse a customer who spent $20k for their motorcycle? It's an extremely difficult scenario for all parties involved but it's important to put yourself in the customer's shoes. More so given the mileage between dealers and the sometimes unbelievable inconvenience for the customer.

litetouch: Make it a point to see if Mr. Anthony Cavanaugh is still at BMW NA in New Jersey, if you get the run around when you call (I mean that totally obnoxious/worthless Gal they usually route you to at NA) then send me an email at beemerdons@aol.com and I'll get you AC's personal email address.

Here in Arizona we have a very effective Lemon Law, a number of AZ Beemers have gotten their money back due to BMW NA shenanigans/mullarkey!
 
Don, how to you suggest he contact BMW NA directly?

+1, Gunny; make that dealer replace that defective spragg clutch right NOW, go to BMW NA ASAP and report this problem to them directly!

What number should he call? The 1-800 customer "no-service" department. Sounds like it would be nice for the MOA to have a list of direct contact numbers straight to BMW NA and the regional service reps. Never mind I forgot that the MOA leadership feels that this is not important.
 
The MOA does not like members that say that their bike and BMW are not perfect.

It is obvious from some of the responses I've had in BMW Motor Cycle Owners of America that I am not "well received" yet another post from Ricoefamoso.

My dealer "fixed" my left hand signal flasher several weeks ago. Now ... my windshield will not power up or down unless I hit the button on the dash that opens the GPS mount ... to add insult to injury ... when I do just that ... I can only power the windshield down.

Imagine what this bitch is like when I am in a Florida rain storm?

Second issue ... the left side bag does no longer have a tension strap ... it broke for what ever reason. When I open it ... it drops fully down. The "fabric tension strap is gone".

True ... all of the bs is covered under warranty but ... it is an inconvenience to say the least.

Please ... think long and hard before purchasing a K1600 Gt. I just may have a LEMMON but ... I will go back to an RT in 2013.

I am over all of this.

I suggest you call Anthony Cavanaugh, Team Leader and manager in charge of pre-litigation and bike buy-back at BMW NA. I would tell you to search the MOA for direct contact numbers to BMW NA but you will not find any on the forum because the MOA leadership does not want to ruffle the feather at BMW NA.

But since I am not one of the MOA leaders and do not mind helping a fellow member with a problem I am glad to post the contact information.

Anthony Cavanaugh is TEAM Leader in charge of pre-litigation and vehicle buy-back. His email is Anthony.cavanaugh@bmwna.com His direct line is 201-263-8215

Also, while you bike is still in warranty I would suggest contacting a Lemon Lawyer. Trust me, lawyers are the only way to get BMW NA attention.

Good luck.
 
You think you have problems, look at this guys problems that BMW will not fix.

David Telfer has a new 1600 that now has 3 cracked pistons after having the oil changed at his local dealer. The bike has been in the shop for 4 months waiting for BMW to ship a new engine.
 

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BMW Never Makes a Mistake........................................... .................

You guys remember this one.....

Your buddy from college married this girl and you had "reservations" about it but you hoped for the best and wished them luck. Fast forward 5 years and you get a call that your buddy had finally had it; the central dynamic here was that she was always right and he was always wrong. He finally figured it out that the only way to get her attention was divorce court whereupon she expressed shock and couldn't for the life of her understand what was the problem.

BMW Corporate has followed this mantra for years. My first experience with this was the great thermal reactor debacle of the 70's wherein BMW M30 6 cylinder engines were cracking heads left and right because the thermal reactors were not working as advertised. Rather than admit the possibility (AKA FACT) that they had made a mistake, BMW Corporate blamed the customer. What ultimately made the difference was a class action law suit wherein they were taken to court and the judge slapped the arrogance out of them and told them in no uncertain terms that they would indeed make good on these cracked heads.

It is indeed unfortunate that BMW Corporate must be dealt with in this manner, but there's nothing like a nice court of law to detune BMW's elevated opinion of themselves.

Regards,

Will
 
What number should he call? The 1-800 customer "no-service" department. Sounds like it would be nice for the MOA to have a list of direct contact numbers straight to BMW NA and the regional service reps. Never mind I forgot that the MOA leadership feels that this is not important.

Telephone numbers for the regional service rep's are not handed out to customers. They are not there to interface with customers. That is considered a dealer responsibility even if the issue turns extreme. The rep position is meant for dealers only.
 
............. What ultimately made the difference was a class action law suit wherein they were taken to court and the judge slapped the arrogance out of them and told them in no uncertain terms that they would indeed make good on these cracked heads.

It is indeed unfortunate that BMW Corporate must be dealt with in this manner, but there's nothing like a nice court of law to detune BMW's elevated opinion of themselves.

Regards,

Will

Sorry to report this to you but the arrogance was not "slapped out of them". It continues on to this very day. I could be wrong and many folks on the forum will tell you to go to court against BMW for your own issues. However, I strongly believe going lone ranger style will typically accomplish nothing. The class action suit you speak of is an example of how getting together as a group in order to right what is wrong can accomplish things.

I'm sorry to say I really have no inkling of how many continual lawsuits would weaken their level of arrogance. This arrogant attitude comes from the top down. Until you cure the root of the cancer the rest of the body is at risk.
 
David Telfer has a new 1600 that now has 3 cracked pistons after having the oil changed at his local dealer. The bike has been in the shop for 4 months waiting for BMW to ship a new engine.

I don't know if Mr. Telfer is too blame or not so I won't comment on his scenario. I have experience with a brand new S1000RR which had blown up and it took NA approximately 4 to 8 weeks (I don't remember exactly any longer) to decide to give him a replacement unit.

Not to heap all the blame on BMW: Many years ago, over the course of a few years, I had issues with two unrelated motorcycles and they both happened to have been Honda's. We as a dealership were not able to get either unit to run correctly. Honda's regional service rep was not able to get them to run correctly. Both examples went on for longer than 3 weeks and as we neared a month I felt the customer had been patient enough. Honda wasn't willing to hand out a replacement unit to either customer as they felt if man made it man can fix it. No doubt that is a valid statement but what about the customer who laid their money out for the purchase... how long should they wait for repair? No answer was forthcoming.

I, meaning the dealership, gave both customers brand new replacements as the OEM continued to wallow in the decision making process. The problem units were eventually repaired and there were no further issues with either one of them. We lost whatever we lost on each of those units but that falls under the belief you must operate your store in a profitable enough manner to take care of customers properly. To do otherwise isn't fair to the customer, employees or the dealer principle.

By the way, as far as the S1000RR issue was concerned, the dealer did hand out a replacement unit prior to BMW decision making taking place.

The above examples are why we have Lemon Laws. If the dealerships involved here had waited for the OEM decision making process to arrive at a conclusion the customers would have had to wait even longer to know what was going on. This is after all 3 customers had fully paid for their brand new motorcycle purchases. Sad to say but these laws were put in place because many dealers out there would have done zero for the customer and left it up to the OEM's involved.

What a wonderful world we live in... :scratch
 
Billy, you are correct

In that it did not cure their corporate arrogance though the judge did make them bleed. I am a forensic psychologist by trade and deal with many who are not possessed of any sort of functional empathy, much-less a sense of fair play. It is my considered professional opinion that the only recourse is to make them bleed until such time that it is too uncomfortable for them to continue to bleed whereupon they simply do the right thing in order to stop the blood. Sad but true.

Regards,

Will
 
In that it did not cure their corporate arrogance though the judge did make them bleed. I am a forensic psychologist by trade and deal with many who are not possessed of any sort of functional empathy, much-less a sense of fair play. It is my considered professional opinion that the only recourse is to make them bleed until such time that it is too uncomfortable for them to continue to bleed whereupon they simply do the right thing in order to stop the blood. Sad but true.

Regards,

Will

Very true. Some companies need to bleed out in order to discover their wrongs.

Attitude comes from the top. It gradually works its way thru the corporation by employees who don't stop to question what their being told. After all they've got bills to pay. And, the circle of wrong completes its mission. Employees get promoted and the vicious circle begins anew.
 
Telephone numbers for the regional service rep's are not handed out to customers. They are not there to interface with customers. That is considered a dealer responsibility even if the issue turns extreme. The rep position is meant for dealers only.

I can't say with complete certainty, but I would have to agree with Mr. Walker. When I had a problem with my 2012 GTL I tried my best to talk to the BMW dealer rep but all I got were his comments via my dealer. It would appear that BMW really doesn't want customers to confront the BMW reps face to face for fear of what may transpire between them. Let's face it, it is much easier to say "no" to someone when you aren't talking to them directly.

I sold the 2012 and bought a 2013 hoping things might be different engine and driveline wise, but in reality they are virtually identical. The saving grace on the 2013 is my dealer gave me a fair shake on the price and some add-ons plus the interest rate I obtained was outstanding. I am not a BMW Kool-Aid drinker and while I am not completely happy with my 2013 GTL it will have to do for now. BMW could really take some lessons from some other motorcycle manufacturers in improving their customer service profile, but unless something dramatic happens I don't think that is gonna happen.

Rick
 
Attitude comes from the top. .

That is the main problem. As long as top jobs at BMW Motorcycle are regarded as transition assignments to higher level positions in the bMW corporation, nothing will change. These guys are there for a relatively short period of time and are not interested in customer elations. Their interest is their relations to management above.

We had a discussion inside our corporation about existing problems and shortfalls and how to fix them and I told one of the "senior leaders": "In most cases, you will not see a problem with a bridge from the top or the surface you drive on. You need to go underneath and look up. Then you may see what's wrong"
 
I can't say with complete certainty, but I would have to agree with Mr. Walker. When I had a problem with my 2012 GTL I tried my best to talk to the BMW dealer rep but all I got were his comments via my dealer. It would appear that BMW really doesn't want customers to confront the BMW reps face to face for fear of what may transpire between them. Let's face it, it is much easier to say "no" to someone when you aren't talking to them directly.

I sold the 2012 and bought a 2013 hoping things might be different engine and driveline wise, but in reality they are virtually identical. The saving grace on the 2013 is my dealer gave me a fair shake on the price and some add-ons plus the interest rate I obtained was outstanding. I am not a BMW Kool-Aid drinker and while I am not completely happy with my 2013 GTL it will have to do for now. BMW could really take some lessons from some other motorcycle manufacturers in improving their customer service profile, but unless something dramatic happens I don't think that is gonna happen.

Rick

The thing is, the continued purchase of their products while being dissatisfied just encourages their behavior. A company will believe it does the right thing so long as they are profitable/successful. Stockholders and the BoD will put up with all sorts of non-sense if that is true. When they aren't successful, then people start looking under the bridge.
 
The thing is, the continued purchase of their products while being dissatisfied just encourages their behavior. A company will believe it does the right thing so long as they are profitable/successful. Stockholders and the BoD will put up with all sorts of non-sense if that is true. When they aren't successful, then people start looking under the bridge.


I agree 100% Ponch1. I had hoped that the 2013 would have some of the irritating nuances worked out of it but my timing was off. I probably should have waited a year or two before buying another K1600, but at my age you can't dic around much. Ya don't live forever unfortunately.

Rick
 
I agree 100% Ponch1. I had hoped that the 2013 would have some of the irritating nuances worked out of it but my timing was off. I probably should have waited a year or two before buying another K1600, but at my age you can't dic around much. Ya don't live forever unfortunately.

Rick

Forever? Hell no. Unfortunately, priorities are more of a killer and combined with the vagaries of employment, sometimes things get stuck for awhile.
 
That is the main problem. As long as top jobs at BMW Motorcycle are regarded as transition assignments to higher level positions in the bMW corporation, nothing will change. These guys are there for a relatively short period of time and are not interested in customer elations. Their interest is their relations to management above. .............

Don't any of these people actually think about the customer? That is why we have job's... because of customers. How quickly that seems to be lost on people. The one's at the top are so quick to take their multi-million dollar payday however. How many of them will mix it up with a customer to actually see how the customer feels? Sad, sad story all over the place.
 
The thing is, the continued purchase of their products while being dissatisfied just encourages their behavior. A company will believe it does the right thing so long as they are profitable/successful. Stockholders and the BoD will put up with all sorts of non-sense if that is true. When they aren't successful, then people start looking under the bridge.

Amen, amen and amen!! I am one of the guilty ones as I'm dumb enough to keep buying from them.

If you're up for a chuckle read this right out of Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle Once on the page go down to the section entitled "Reliability" and read the entire section.
 
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