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Does BMW need a water cooled boxer?

xp8103

New member
So the 1200 has reached performance limited by cooling, much as Porsche did. Question. Does it need more HP? Are we drag racing them? If so, perhaps the boxer isn't for you, may I suggest something in a WATER COOLED INLINE 4? Does the GSA need more HP? Is there a ravine that is just too much for the current GS that we're just itching to traverse that requires more of it than the current 1200 puts out?

How about instead of more HP for HP sake we concentrate on ride-ability, durability, MPG?

Just curious.
 
There's more than just cooling: bikes will also need to meet upcoming EU requirements regarding emissions and noise. Liquid cooling makes this possible while continuing to increase power...after all, BMW does want to keep selling bikes.
 
HP was not the reason for the new boxer but will be a byproduct of the new design. The design adds an estimated 50cc, a different head design, better breathing presumably and some other items other posters will no doubt sight.

Ride-ability: One of the things better breathing will give the boxer will be more torque. Spread that around the rpm range and it will improve useable torque and ride-ability. Torque and HP are mathematically related so you improve one you get more of the other.

Durability: Yes we all want that. Ranting about the durability of a bike that won't hit show room floors until 2013 seems premature to me. The new design in engine and drive train will not have real world testing data from rider/owners 2014.

I am willing to reserve judgement until a latter date.
 
So the 1200 has reached performance limited by cooling, much as Porsche did. Question. Does it need more HP? Are we drag racing them? If so, perhaps the boxer isn't for you, may I suggest something in a WATER COOLED INLINE 4? Does the GSA need more HP? Is there a ravine that is just too much for the current GS that we're just itching to traverse that requires more of it than the current 1200 puts out?

How about instead of more HP for HP sake we concentrate on ride-ability, durability, MPG?

Just curious.

I think liquid-cooling is first and foremost to meet emissions regulations. Is there any such thing as too much HP?
 
Sadly, all this a moot point unless BMW perfects a bullet-proof Final Drive. :violin

And sadly you and others will continue to grouse about the poor quality of a new final drive unit that has not even hit the market yet.
 
And sadly I can't afford a new bike. But on the bright side, I'd love to pick up someone's R1200GS now that it's about to become an old model.
 
And sadly I can't afford a new bike. But on the bright side, I'd love to pick up someone's R1200GS now that it's about to become and old model.

:laugh:laugh My '09 has been an "old" model for three model years now
 
Whew. This thread has turned into a cat fight. Maybe it should have been posted "somewhere else" on this site?
 
bikes will also need to meet upcoming EU requirements regarding emissions and noise.
+1

Water cooling allows you to control the temperature of the engine much better and that in turn permits more efficient/effective engine designs. Particularly, it allows the engineers to lean out the fuel at emissions testing RPMs. For example, look at the torque hole the F800s have at ~4k. To meet emissions nearly every modern engine has that "feature" one way or another...some are obvious, some are not.
 
What 'new' final drive unit?

Please enlighten us 'grousers.' :wave

The one that will come with the R1250GS. My initial response to the OP used the WasserBoxer as a basis. We know nothing about it yet.

For my tastes I find final drive rants as redundant and boring. I took your 'bullet proof' comment as the launching pad for yet another thread to go down that route. my experience in reading threads is no matter what BMW would do to make a final drive bullet prove the would come up at least 1 mile short of the 'acceptable' by that standard.

I apologize for my knee jerk response to your post. I will exit the thread now.
 
Ah.... Of course.... I forgot about emissions. Because as we all know, it's about mpg and reducing fossil fuel use until it's about emissions, then it's about emissions, mpg be damned. This rant of course belongs more on the Diesel Truck Registry website than here but the concept is the same.
 
The one that will come with the R1250GS. My initial response to the OP used the WasserBoxer as a basis. We know nothing about it yet.

For my tastes I find final drive rants as redundant and boring. I took your 'bullet proof' comment as the launching pad for yet another thread to go down that route. my experience in reading threads is no matter what BMW would do to make a final drive bullet prove the would come up at least 1 mile short of the 'acceptable' by that standard.

I apologize for my knee jerk response to your post. I will exit the thread now.

No need to apologize. I didn't take your witicisms as personal.

As one of many (way too many) who has sufferred thru an expensive FD failure, forgive me if I do not share your optimism about the current state of affairs for BMW's shaft system engineering.

I hope it is re-engineered when the R1250GS becomes a reality. Nothing personal, but unfortunately the posture of "I find final drive rants as redundant and boring" arguably helps prolong corporate BMW ignoring this issue. :banghead
 
If you look at the spy shots the rear drive is on the other side, maybe they fixed the problem?

I hope so Darryl.

However, BMW has flip-flopped the FD's on previous models (remember the GT?!) without any changes/improvements to the actual shaft system.

We'll see. :dunno
 
Here is an article from Motorcycle.com.

"Liquid-cooling allows a quicker warm-up time, reducing critical post-start-up emissions, while also lowering operating temps. This will help achieve stricter Euro 5 standards slated to begin in 2015. Liquid-cooling also enables increases in power, so along with a bump in displacement to around 1250cc, we expect a bump in power to compete against the latest batch of challengers to the adventure-touring throne."

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/bmw/2013-bmw-r1250gs-preview-91202.html
 
My quick thoughts...

BMW needs a water cooled boxer for emissions and an HP crazed marketplace.

Most riders, for how most ride, do not need a water cooled boxer.
 
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