Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 31 to 42 of 42

Thread: Is BMW more different now?

  1. #31
    Registered User Chumley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    13
    Maybe this will help.

    As a correction I will change the date to 2012, or so and remove the reference to the R1200GS as being the 5th best selling. I cannot find the exact source of the original post, over 5 years ago. I am sure some of you that are resourceful and energetic might find out more about the sales figures of the S1000RR and GS which are still doing pretty well. I would gladly include this in my updated snoozer. Since it is really about a US based club I will use US domestic sales figures if possible.

    I will also change the spelling of "weird".

  2. #32
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    North Ridgeville OH
    Posts
    715
    This thread is more different - mostly blue kool-aid with a hint of animosity

    BMW strives to be innovative and technologically advanced to differentiate themselves from their competition. Sometimes that means adding innovations to an already identifiable package (boxers). Being distinctive is key to BMW appearing exotic or special and maintaining their customer base. Sometimes they are separated by a technical featue such as a paralever. Sometimes they find the opportunity to create a new market segment like sport touring or adventure touring. When others come to play in their arena, they try to maintain their edge (K1600GT). It will be interesting to see how they maintain an edge in the GS class as Yamaha and Triumph advance on their market. Will just being a boxer be enough? When they have to go play in someone else's pool, they try to be the absolute best (S1000RR). If BMW didn't stand out from other bike manufacturers in some way, I don't think they would be making bikes for very long. So I guess the way I see it, they have a brand reputation and truly their business built around being distinctive, innovative and technologically advanced; in other words, different. Following that path doesn't come without risk and sometimes their forward progress stumbles and doesn't produce their best motorcycle, but it still produces a BMW.

  3. #33
    Registered User Chumley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by rxcrider View Post
    ... So I guess the way I see it, they have a brand reputation and truly their business built around being distinctive, innovative and technologically advanced; in other words, different. Following that path doesn't come without risk and sometimes their forward progress stumbles and doesn't produce their best motorcycle, but it still produces a BMW.
    I like that post, it certainly explains much of their differentness.
    Last edited by Chumley; 01-11-2012 at 11:13 PM. Reason: Spelling...

  4. #34
    Registered User MOTOR31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Full timr RV'er, where we park is home. No fixed address or location.
    Posts
    2,223

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    OP's question was really not about how BMW has changed over the years compared to where they were at some previous time, but how different are they know (and previously) to other m/c manufacturers.
    (i'm in teacher mode right now. you failed that essay question, bucko. try a redo, and resubmit for an improved grade?) (smiley face added)

    However, building off what you began--
    think of the /5 bikes, and compare them to other bikes of similar vintage.
    shaft drive BMW vs chain drive almost everyone else.
    opposed flat twin BMW vs upright twins or singles from most everyone else, or V-twins from H-D or Guzzi.
    weird sideways kick start BMW vs normal rotation for everyone else.
    electric & kick start BMW vs kick start only most everyone else.
    12 volt BMW vs 6 volt most everyone else.
    motor that will last 50,000-100,00 miles before needing an upper end rebuild vs throw it in the garbage before 100K miles most everyone else.

    yup- more different, even then.
    Uh teach, perhaps you didn't really read the OP, here let me quote a part of it.

    "I grew up looking at BMWs as the old man's bike that cost a lot, didn't perform but ran forever. Also a lot of quirky guys had them and some of them showed up at Alices and some were even pretty cool - but they were really an old man's bike."

    Having started with BMW at the beginning of the /6 line, the description fits the /5 pretty darn well don't you think?

    "Then BMW decided to change things up and increased the engine size to 900cc and put a bikini fairing on the thing - and hey that paint job was cool! I went to Laguna Seca and saw the R90S with Pridmore and McLaughlin riding them and they were damn FAST on these things sponsored by Butler and Smith. Man, they sounded cool too (should've heard the Ducati 900SS and the Guzzi LeMans too)."

    Pardon me, but this looks pretty much like a chronological progression to me since he talks about the way bikes USED to be and how they changed as time went on. Kind of an as the years went on thing don't you think? Yes he does mention Moto Guzzi and Ducati but only as a comparison to sounds. It still does not negate the chronological progression specified in the BMW models the OP listed as changes.

    Lastly if you want to correct my post in teacher mode, do you not think you should proofread your own for proper word usage first? The words "know" and "now" are not interchangeable nor do they have the same meaning. It is also proper to capitalize "I'm" as well.

    You ain't the only one to have been in the front of a classroom on pay status "bucko".
    DEFINITION OF A VETERAN A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
    Author Unknown

  5. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Northern Front Range, CO
    Posts
    6,448
    Quote Originally Posted by Motor31 View Post
    Uh teach, perhaps you didn't really read the OP, here let me quote a part of it.

    "I grew up looking at BMWs as the old man's bike that cost a lot, didn't perform but ran forever. Also a lot of quirky guys had them and some of them showed up at Alices and some were even pretty cool - but they were really an old man's bike."

    Having started with BMW at the beginning of the /6 line, the description fits the /5 pretty darn well don't you think?

    "Then BMW decided to change things up and increased the engine size to 900cc and put a bikini fairing on the thing - and hey that paint job was cool! I went to Laguna Seca and saw the R90S with Pridmore and McLaughlin riding them and they were damn FAST on these things sponsored by Butler and Smith. Man, they sounded cool too (should've heard the Ducati 900SS and the Guzzi LeMans too)."

    Pardon me, but this looks pretty much like a chronological progression to me since he talks about the way bikes USED to be and how they changed as time went on. Kind of an as the years went on thing don't you think? Yes he does mention Moto Guzzi and Ducati but only as a comparison to sounds. It still does not negate the chronological progression specified in the BMW models the OP listed as changes.

    Lastly if you want to correct my post in teacher mode, do you not think you should proofread your own for proper word usage first? The words "know" and "now" are not interchangeable nor do they have the same meaning. It is also proper to capitalize "I'm" as well.

    You ain't the only one to have been in the front of a classroom on pay status "bucko".
    ah, let's go to OP'soriginal question: "Did BMW change all of a sudden or has my favorite motorcycle manufacturer always been this "different"?."

    Which then leads us to the query of "is it possible to be "different" from one's self?"

    (i will take more points off in grading for content concerns than for grammatical/typo errors. wouldn't you?)
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  6. #36
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    "Big Bend" TX
    Posts
    8,930
    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post

    Which then leads us to the query of "is it possible to be "different" from one's self?"
    Yes. Folks think of "old guy touring bikes" but the S1000RR was their best seller in the U.S. in 2011. That is BMW being different than themselves in my book.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  7. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Northern Front Range, CO
    Posts
    6,448
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Yes. Folks think of "old guy touring bikes" but the S1000RR was their best seller in the U.S. in 2011. That is BMW being different than themselves in my book.
    no argument with that line of factual reasoning.

    (in fact, i had a discussion with my 24yo son just the other day around this idea)
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  8. #38
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    3,559
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Yes. Folks think of "old guy touring bikes" but the S1000RR was their best seller in the U.S. in 2011. That is BMW being different than themselves in my book.
    As they were in 1973 when the R90S was introduced. It, too, wasn't an "old guy touring bike" (although I'm sure plenty of folks have used it that way).

  9. #39
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    4,950
    Quote Originally Posted by marchyman View Post
    As they were in 1973 when the R90S was introduced. It, too, wasn't an "old guy touring bike" (although I'm sure plenty of folks have used it that way).
    A good analogy that can be expanded by noting the R90S Daytona Superbike win.

    In the 2010s it may soon be MotoGP.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  10. #40
    rsbeemer 22600's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    New Braunfels,Texas/Taichung, Taiwan
    Posts
    338

    Yes

    The answer to your question is, "YES" and always will be.
    1978 R100rs MOA#22600 125cc Kymco
    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.

  11. #41
    Registered User Anyname's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Portsmouth, NH
    Posts
    745
    To add more fuel to the fire, the following is BMW sales figures from the Ashpalt and Rubber blog:

    "As far as model go, the BMW R1200GS series still reigns supreme, accounting for 28,866 units in total worldwide (18,413 units for the R1200GS, 10,453 for the R1200GS Adventure). The GS dominance continues with the F800GS selling 9,829 units worldwide, and was followed closely by the BMW R1200RT (9,540 units) & BMW S1000RR (9,044 units). Meanwhile, the recently launched K1600GT/GTL accounted for 8,019 units, while the rest of the line-up broke down as follows; F800R (7,986 units), R1200R (7,310 units), and the F650GS (6,145 units). "
    BMW R bike rider, horizontally opposed to everything...

  12. #42
    Out There Somewhere bmwrider88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA
    Posts
    1,044
    Quote Originally Posted by Anyname View Post
    To add more fuel to the fire, the following is BMW sales figures from the Ashpalt and Rubber blog:

    "As far as model go, the BMW R1200GS series still reigns supreme, accounting for 28,866 units in total worldwide (18,413 units for the R1200GS, 10,453 for the R1200GS Adventure). The GS dominance continues with the F800GS selling 9,829 units worldwide, and was followed closely by the BMW R1200RT (9,540 units) & BMW S1000RR (9,044 units). Meanwhile, the recently launched K1600GT/GTL accounted for 8,019 units, while the rest of the line-up broke down as follows; F800R (7,986 units), R1200R (7,310 units), and the F650GS (6,145 units). "
    how do these numbers compare to other brands' models sales? great numbers, but compared to what?


    so yeah this whole thing has been kicked around the block once or twice. if there's any issue with redundancy, perhaps the redundancy is with the OP's entire concept. tho i get his point. IS BMW different now than they were "then"?
    of course. they opt for a smaller slice of the market pie, while [trying to keep] leading in technological advances and innovations... well, that's the concept, anyway.

    here are a couple points i'd like to make about BMW and what they are doing, satisfying my own pet peeves, and expressing my own opinions... i'll pick at the OP's article/post, addressing specific points where i feel i am qualified for an opinion.

    RE: BMW-
    first of all, HAVE they moved away from the "Old Man's Bike" status?

    let's look at this from the viewpoint of say- a 20 year old. very few YOUNG humans (in his age bracket) are going to be able to afford ANY [new] BMW. does a 34 year old guy appear "old" to a 20 year old? you recall being 20 AT ALL? so in this context, YES BMWs are STILL an "old man's bike" (IMO)

    are they STILL innovating?

    well considering that "recent" BMW models sport chain drives, maybe not so much, eh? if innovation consists of suddenly intro'ing assorted entries into formerly ignored markets, then yes BMW is "innovating". rehashing the Boxer motor to include liquid-cooling is NOT "innovating", per se- liquid cooled motorcycles have been around for a while. can you work on your brand new BMW? not as easily as ever before, so if innovating means more proprietary BS and computer generated and maintained systems that you can't touch- then sure, they are right out there with everyone else, innovating their bikes away from self service. (QUALIFIER- i admit to not having paid attention at all to the new models, so am likely ignorant of actual nuances in innovations and advances in new/recent models & model lines)

    IMO BMW is farther than they ever have been from appearing to give two flying fiddler's flips what their oh-so-loyal (and ever shrinking- with more choices than ever before, the markets are split across a wider spectrum of available products) customer base wants or needs. furthermore, i see them as kind of flailing about, struggling to keep up in a quickly changing world. moving forward and backward at the same time, going in 12 different (figuratively speaking) directions instead of staying with just one or two or three model lines. seeking broader market-share status. so yeah, in that regard, they certainly are different than ever before.

    i dunno. few, if any "new" BMWs appeal to me. and not just because i couldn't afford one. my two BMWs are an 88 K100 and a 93 R100RS. both bikes have about 50K on the clock. they do what i need them to do, and they do it adequately (and comparatively - my other bikes are vintage Brits) well. and they do it with STYLE. beyond 1993 (in model years), i don't see anything that REALLY makes my blood pump. if they intro'd a "retro" model, as i said earlier, & elsewhere, i'd probably go out and get one, as i've had a hankerin for a new bike lately..

    at the end of the day, however (IMO), all this becomes so much blah blah blah, in light of several things, all listed above.

    MY bottom line:

    i love my BMWs, and will, to the extent that i DO love my BMWs, remain loyal to the "brand". my local BMW dealership has a good service department that tends to my needs in a good and reasonably expedient fashion, and there's a guy around the corner who is an airhead freak, to whom i take my RS from time to time, so my overall needs balance out in that i get what i need, who i need it from, when i need it. my "vintage" (or classic) bikes seem to have just really gotten well broken in.

    i'll continue to ride my BMWs across this fantastic country.
    i'll wave and smile when we pass.
    Last edited by bmwrider88; 01-17-2012 at 02:36 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •