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K1600 head to head with Goldwing

I don't agree. While the bikes are different, according to BMW, the GTL IS their ultimate touring machine and the ÔÇ£The future of touringÔÇØ.

Someone willing to drop 25-35K on a touring machine is entitled to learn the pros and cons of each manufacturersÔÇÖ offerings in a particular market segment. In my opinion, comparison to the Gold Wing, or HD, or any other tourer, is legitimate.

Well said! These bikes are competing for the same market. I don't understand or agree with the "Apple to Oranges" argument. one thing I find interesting is that the GW is a decade old design. I would have thought that the new "State of the Art" BMW would have blow the GW out of the water. The GW is due for some updating, Now, that will be an interesting comparison. mnn
 
I Agree With the Article

I have ridden both 1600's and like all beemers they seem to have a similar failiure in design. The pegs are too high, the bars are too far forward, and the seats are tourture devices. In this I agree with the Motorcyclist magazine. I also agree that down the road it may be expensive to fix some of the electronics, but so will the wing.

I drive 2010 RT and agree that the cases are not that sturdy. On mine the cable kept comming out and it finally hit the pavement wehnI opened it on the side stand and I scratched the side quite badly.

So I think their experience is raelistic and BMW needs to address some of these issues in their entire bike line.

Don't get me wrong, I like BMW bikes and this is my fourth. They are reliable and do as advertised. They need to work on ergonomics if they want to compete with the big touring bikes.
 
IF and I don't, but IF I wanted a 2 up touring only rig I wold get a HD Roadglide ABS.

If I wanted to tour and corner, one up mostly, some 2 up then I would get a RT.

If I wanted to sleep in jail, and put my lawyers son thru college, I would get the K1600GT.

I just do not have that much self control.

Rod
 
IF and I don't, but IF I wanted a 2 up touring only rig I wold get a HD Roadglide ABS.

If I wanted to tour and corner, one up mostly, some 2 up then I would get a RT.

If I wanted to sleep in jail, and put my lawyers son thru college, I would get the K1600GT.

I just do not have that much self control.

Rod

That's me to a tee! ...and why I ride an RT.
 
Test ride on a GW this year at summerfest, two up. OK, but hot, poor cornering clearance, and my wife thought our LT won hands down for passenger comfort.
 
1600 v/s goldwing

I have ridden both and like the GTL better due to the fact that the BMW is bike for bike the more athletic and would eat the Goldwing's lunch in the twisties.

What I didn't like was the heat from the engine which did a good job cooking my feet. I have ridden Goldwings of 75' vintage up to and including the present and owned 2 of same at different times in my life. What I have NEVER had a problem with was a wing cooking my feet and legs. My question is WHEN THE HELL IS BMW GOING TO FINALLY GET IT AS RELATES TO ENGINE HEAT COOKING THE RIDER AND FIX THE PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!????????? BMW claims to have the best engineers in the business so when are the brass going to finally take them to the woodshead and tell them that they have NO choice but to fix the problem?

I most recently got rid of a K1200RS for the same problem.
 
My question is WHEN THE HELL IS BMW GOING TO FINALLY GET IT AS RELATES TO ENGINE HEAT COOKING THE RIDER AND FIX THE PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!?????????
They already have -- try a K1200LT. Total heat control on that bike.

I expect that as the K16 line matures, we'll see alternative fairing arrangements to improve the hot air flow control. Welcome to the world of beta testing :D
 
I'm asking with a grin on my face so please respond in kind. :rofl


The GTL is a two up, fully faired touring machine with loads of comfort and user features. The Goldwing is a two up, fully faired touring machine with loads of comfort and user features. The K1200LT was a two up, fully faired touring machine with loads of comfort and user features. Two questions:


1. Why is the comparison of the GL1800 and the 1600GTL not apples to apples?
2. Why is the 1600GTL not a replacement for the K1200LT?
 
Ahhhh... You note and place the great R1200RT in the mix. :nod Cycle World awarded it "Tourer of the Year" a few years ago (pre-DOHC), and gave the Gold Wing "Honorable Mention". Yet, it also wins sport touring comparisons! What a balancing act. Weighs 200lbs less than the GTL. For those going far, content with keeping things <120 mph, yet wanting something more nimble for back roads and twisties, the refined RT is another option.

+1

I had use of a 1600 GTL for a few hundred miles. No surprise--it was real nice, but when I got back on my '07 R12RT I realized once again how much I liked it. In many ways the RT is just about perfect for me. My next bike is going to be a DOHC RT.
 
First off let me say I don't know anyone employed directly by BMWM. I do know a few dealers but that's it in my chain of communication with the company. From a personal standpoint I think calling the GT/GTL a direct replacement for the LT is incorrect. I think the people at BMW weren't looking for an LT replacement they were looking for something new and different, not just a gussied up LT. Honda and Harley-Davidson are the best at squeaking out every last possible once of design change from the same old motorcycle. How old is the current Gold Wing design? How old is the current Harley-Davidson platform? Sure they may put some new fangled farkle on their bikes but when you cut down to the quick it is the same old tired platforms that have been around for decades.

So fast forward to the BMWM design group. They probably had some interesting conversations prior to actually designing the GT/GTL. I am sure some said let's save a ton of money and just pull a Harley or a Honda and change the fairing a little and throw on a new radio or fancier gps. Change the LT paint scheme a bit and viola....the NEW BMW LT II. But would it REALLY be new? Has there been a REALLY new Gold Wing in recent memory? Has there been a REALLY new Harley-Davidson in 60 years? No, all they have done is tweaked this and that and bumped up horsepower and when things really needed upgrading they threw in an extra gear or two in the transmission. It is STILL the same old tired ass design. So for my two cents worth I applaud BMW for again being on the cutting edge of change by bringing out the GT/GTL. For all the current faults on this bike it is a totally new design and when the bugs are worked out it should be a really great bike just like the LT turned out to be. Remember all the conversating about that bike when it first came out?????? Rick
 
First off let me say I don't know anyone employed directly by BMWM. I do know a few dealers but that's it in my chain of communication with the company. From a personal standpoint I think calling the GT/GTL a direct replacement for the LT is incorrect. I think the people at BMW weren't looking for an LT replacement they were looking for something new and different, not just a gussied up LT. Honda and Harley-Davidson are the best at squeaking out every last possible once of design change from the same old motorcycle. How old is the current Gold Wing design? How old is the current Harley-Davidson platform? Sure they may put some new fangled farkle on their bikes but when you cut down to the quick it is the same old tired platforms that have been around for decades.

So fast forward to the BMWM design group. They probably had some interesting conversations prior to actually designing the GT/GTL. I am sure some said let's save a ton of money and just pull a Harley or a Honda and change the fairing a little and throw on a new radio or fancier gps. Change the LT paint scheme a bit and viola....the NEW BMW LT II. But would it REALLY be new? Has there been a REALLY new Gold Wing in recent memory? Has there been a REALLY new Harley-Davidson in 60 years? No, all they have done is tweaked this and that and bumped up horsepower and when things really needed upgrading they threw in an extra gear or two in the transmission. It is STILL the same old tired ass design. So for my two cents worth I applaud BMW for again being on the cutting edge of change by bringing out the GT/GTL. For all the current faults on this bike it is a totally new design and when the bugs are worked out it should be a really great bike just like the LT turned out to be. Remember all the conversating about that bike when it first came out?????? Rick

I am not sure if I understand your post, Yes the GW is a decade old, yet it competes favorably with the BMW's "Totally new design" what is wrong with this picture? I am not sure I would use the term "cutting edge" msn
 
I have been watching this thread with interest. Two years ago I sold my 05 RT and purchased my Wing. I remain quite happy with that decision. I changed because:
1. worried about FD issues
2. RT did not pull my trailer well
3. My wife was not as comfortable as she would have liked, even after a Rick Mayer seat

The main reason I have not ridden a GTL is that we remain blissfully happy with the Wing, and my wife feels the Goldwing rear seat is the most comfortable seat on any of our vehicles. Since riding pillion is the worst duty I can imagine, I will continue to do everything I can to make her happy. I would say, however, that anyone who feels the Wing is "fat", "slow", etc, is sorely mistaken. It is larger, heavier, but is very comfortable and capable.

I will say that I miss two things about BMW. One is the electrically adjustable windshield. The other is the gear indicator. I will also say the the Wing Navi just plain sucks. Otherwise, best bike I have ever ridden.

I do believe the comparisons are not apples to apples. I am, however, enjoying the read this thread provides......even though some folks are clearly delusional!:D
 
I don't know what is not to be understood. The Honda GW is a nice bike for a 10 year old design. That seems like a pretty direct comment. Let me ask a question instead, what major design change has taken place on a Honda GW or Harley bagger in the last 10 years? In the venue of heavyweight touring motorcycles neither Honda or Harley have made any significant changes to their platforms other than "tweeking" this and that. One of the greatest features of the 1600 and 1200LT was the electrically adjustable windshield that was initially offered on the first 1200LT over a decade ago. To this point no other touring bike that I know of has this feature. True, Honda has a mechanically adjustable windshield but you can't adjust it on the go. On a Harley you can only adjust the windshield by installing a new one of different height. I can't speak for Honda but I do know that there is more than enough room to install the mechanics for an adjustable windshield on a Road Glide yet Harley hasn't addressed this issue.

In another area, which motorcycle manufacturer has been the leader in development of anti-lock brakes? As I recall BMW is going on something like 20 years or more of ABS design. Harley-Davidson brought their ABS system out in 2005 and it was only available on police bikes for several years. I don't know when Honda brought out ABS on the GW but I don't think it was all that long ago. At first most motorcycle manufacturers thought ABS was a waste of time and effort and that it would never be accepted or desired by their customers. BMW obviously felt that ABS brakes was a worthwhile venture that would save lives and continued development of better ABS systems while the other big name companies sat on their hands. It was only when Honda and Harley both realized they were at risk of losing customers to BMW that they started delvelopment of their own ABS systems. So when I say BMW is again on the "cutting edge" of technology it is my belief that they are. They have developed a sport touring motorcycle in the 1600 with almost every conceivable option a rider could want or need. Short of having two extra side mounted wheels to keep the bike from falling over the 1600 is about as safe a motorcycle as one could possibly buy given the horsepower that it has. Is it a bike for "everyone"? No it isn't. Some people like riding a great big old bagger and some prefer updated tech. Whichever way you prefer, go for it!

Rick
 
For all the current faults on this bike it is a totally new design and when the bugs are worked out it should be a really great Rick

Yes........this certainly sounds very "cutting edge". :nyah

And, for those who think a flat six is an outdated design........drive down to your local Porsche dealer and ask for a test drive. :jester

I'm just kiddin' with you, now........don't go nuclear on me!
 
every else is wrong!!

I traded off an 09 GW just because I wasn't really comfortable on the seat and neither was my wife. I just didn't like the weight although it was amazing how well it handled.

my 09 GS is the best touring bike in the world since I bought a Russel seat, Jesse bags and Garmin 660.

I can prove it.

My wife says it is.

Anyother conclusion is just opinion. IMO.
 
No need for a flame job, I am just stating facts as I see them. Lord knows Honda Gold Wings never had any teething problems either when they came out with something new.......wait, what's that cracking noise from under that Gold Wing???? :dance Rick
 
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