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2009 RT U-Joint Failure

36,838 miles, 2009RT.
No one should have to worry about a driveshaft this new or this few miles.
 
My point was: Harley has...they don't use them. Must be something about motorcycle shaft final drives that makes them more failure prone, than all our car applications.

It would be interesting to see the loads/stress analysis techniques used to design these systems.

I do not think shaft drive on a motorcycle is more failure prone. If shaft drive was inherently problematic for a motorcycle, why haven't other bikes (like airheads) had such problems? Maybe it is just coincidence, but it looks like these problems surfaced after BMW introduced the paralever system.
 
It would be interesting to see the loads/stress analysis techniques used to design these systems.

I do not think shaft drive on a motorcycle is more failure prone. If shaft drive was inherently problematic for a motorcycle, why haven't other bikes (like airheads) had such problems? Maybe it is just coincidence, but it looks like these problems surfaced after BMW introduced the paralever system.

Have you compared the HP rating of an airhead vs any hexhead? And the suspension travel of an airhead vs hexhead? Both HP and range of angle of the U joint will effect the lifetime. I'll say again - it seems to be a relatively rare failure, and not one that I'm worried about. And running a fully loaded bike 2 up is likely to increase all forces on the U joint, which might account for the seemly more failures on bikes used that way.

FWIW - There are two universal joints on a Paralever rear drive vs one on the airhead. At least on the hexhead paralever BMW managed to keep the axis of the U joints in line with the paralever pivot points which seems to have eliminated the spline problems the oilheads experienced. People seem to have selective memory sometimes - I can certainly recall driveline failures on airheads (like the failed wheel to hub splines, and the hub rivets to crown-gear on the rear-drive..) and occassional U joint failures despite them being in an oil bath.
 
Have you compared the HP rating of an airhead vs any hexhead? And the suspension travel of an airhead vs hexhead? Both HP and range of angle of the U joint will effect the lifetime. I'll say again - it seems to be a relatively rare failure, and not one that I'm worried about. And running a fully loaded bike 2 up is likely to increase all forces on the U joint, which might account for the seemly more failures on bikes used that way.

FWIW - There are two universal joints on a Paralever rear drive vs one on the airhead. At least on the hexhead paralever BMW managed to keep the axis of the U joints in line with the paralever pivot points which seems to have eliminated the spline problems the oilheads experienced. People seem to have selective memory sometimes - I can certainly recall driveline failures on airheads (like the failed wheel to hub splines, and the hub rivets to crown-gear on the rear-drive..) and occassional U joint failures despite them being in an oil bath.

Then how do you explain why we do not hear more about drive line failures on higher powered Japanese bikes, like ST1300, Concours, etc? Not trying to start an argument here, just trying to determine why BMW has more problems than other similar sized motorcycles.
 
Then how do you explain why we do not hear more about drive line failures on higher powered Japanese bikes, like ST1300, Concours, etc? Not trying to start an argument here, just trying to determine why BMW has more problems than other similar sized motorcycles.

Lets not include all "driveline" failures with the specific failure being discussed - a U joint failure.

The most probable reason is twofold - BMW riders tend to put a lot of miles on their bikes. That will increase wear and increase the chances of failures. I also would never have heard about an ST1300 or Concours U-joint failure since I don't frequent forums that cover those bikes..

I'm also guessing that neither have a rear suspension like the Paralever suspension - which to me is a big improvement over the much simpler "monolever" or non-pivoted rear suspension.

A rather quick Google of "Kawasaki Concour U Joint" turned up a number of reports of failures (http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11895) - some on Concours, some on other Japanese bikes. (http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/viewtopic.php?t=34372) - it's not an unknown failure apparently on almost any shaft drive bike.

Found the same thing - Google "st1300 u-joint" - there are reports of failures.. (http://tomdeboeser.wordpress.com/my-st1300-u-joint-rr/) One ST1300 forum is running a poll gathering info on failures: http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?86523-ST1300-U-Joint

Given that info - I rather doubt that BMW has "more problems" with U joints then other similarly sized/powered motorcycles. We just hear about them more because we DO frequent BMW forums..
 
Another reason

why I think the BMW rider focuses more on the bike's shortcomings, is the premium price they pay to buy and operate said BMW machine. If I buy a 23k bike vs. another brand 14k bike, I have different expectations. I apparently think I'm buying "more" , as in engineering, reliability and other values, with the additional money. Perhaps the quality is equal and the additional is a combination of BMW, BMWNA greed and on my part, snob appeal? Does make one wonder.
 
I can only speak for the Kawasaki Vulcan, but they do fail occasionally. The thing is they only have one U-Joint, in the front. More often they get pinion seal leaks. As far as putting a belt drive on the R series, the crankshaft is longitudinal. Not so with the other bikes. A 90˚ turn to make that feasible would eat up power and belts are not good on gravel roads. The better fix are sealed CV joints.
 
I can only speak for the Kawasaki Vulcan, but they do fail occasionally. The thing is they only have one U-Joint, in the front. More often they get pinion seal leaks. As far as putting a belt drive on the R series, the crankshaft is longitudinal. Not so with the other bikes. A 90˚ turn to make that feasible would eat up power and belts are not good on gravel roads. The better fix are sealed CV joints.

Isn't that what jack-shafts are for? Perhaps just for the non gravel road crowd? BMW once swore that shafts were the only way to go. But now belts and chains are okay, because some of their models come with them . Just like synthetic oil was a no-no, until BMW had an oil firm come up with a nice looking BMW syn oil label and then it was okay.

I think BMW's primary mission is to manufacture and sell motorcycles...I thing BMWNA's primary mission is to make money by moving motorcycles...there is a difference. The latter has more smoke and mirrors via its marketing and pricing....and not so much its customer support, as evidenced by the lack of communication on its products care and reliability.
 
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If your transmission seal had leaked a little, your u joint would have been lubed and this would have never happened. :dunno

David
 
Isn't that what jack-shafts are for? Perhaps just for the non gravel road crowd? BMW once swore that shafts were the only way to go. But now belts and chains are okay, because some of their models come with them . Just like synthetic oil was a no-no, until BMW had an oil firm come up with a nice looking BMW syn oil label and then it was okay.

I think BMW's primary mission is to manufacture and sell motorcycles...I thing BMWNA's primary mission is to make money by moving motorcycles...there is a difference. The latter has more smoke and mirrors via its marketing and pricing....and not so much its customer support, as evidenced by the lack of communication on its products care and reliability.


Jack shaft? Reread what I wrote.
 
Had a simular failure on my 07 GSA at 84K in Oct. Covered by an extended warranty. U Joint broke, and drive shaft jamed in the housing. Was at speed when this all happened. Strong vibration and loosing speed. Stopped the bike and it would die in gear. OK in neutral. 100 miles from home, very limited cell phone coverage. Walked about 1/2 mile to find a few square inches that the cell phone would operate and called the wife who came with trailer to retrieve bike and me.

When the dealer disassembled, reported some play in the FD and ended up with an entire new FD, the updated housing with drain, along with driveshaft.

There have been simular failures on previous models. Paul G had written an article a few years ago on this very subject, checking drive shaft u joints. Had them checked on my 01 GS at 102K and they were beginning to tighen up.

They are not a seviceable part and will require some inspection as the miles accrue

For a dealer to say they "never seen this before" or something like that, I think is a poor excuse.


Glad that BMW is covering your failure

bob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sloride
Has Kawasaki,Yamaha and Honda figured out how to make them bulletproof?



My point was: Harley has...they don't use them. Must be something about motorcycle shaft final drives that makes them more failure prone, than all our car applications.

My post was simply a question. If I had to answer the question myself I would say thay have. I'm not saying there has never been a failure but bullet proof like a BMW boxer engine
 
Re: U-joint failure

I have a friend whose U-joint went on him on the way to Bloomsberg on his 05 R1200RT. First a bit of vibration, then more, then clunking and more vibration. It got him to Bloomsberg (about 300 miles) and he sought advice. He ended up gingerly riding it to Hermy's on Thursday morning and, as suspected, it was the U-joint in the drive shaft. While no one likes to have an expensive failure of this sort, he was extremely lucky. When we went to pick up his bike on Friday, the tech showed us the worn parts. The race for the needle bearings (I think) had just failed - and everyone who saw it thought that he had miles or even just yards to go before the whole thing flew apart and would potentially jam everything inside the swingarm, taking the swingarm with it, and potentially locking up the entire back end with disastrous consequences. While the bike was apart he had them replace the clutch plate and related parts as the clutch had got fried on the Going to the Sun highway last year in stop and go, uphill traffic. It was badly warped, still working but he knew it wasn't right.

Big time Kudos to Hermy's as they had anticipated needing all the required parts with so many bikes going to be in the area. He got it there Thursday morning, they gave him a loaner bike to get him back to the rally, and it was ready Friday morning. 8.5 hours of labour and lots of parts. It was very expensive but could have been much, much worse. And they did give him a free Tshirt and a beer huggie for each of us! :)
 
KevinRT

Do you know how many miles are on your friends bike?

That job had to be very expensive 8.5 hrs labor alone at the BMW shop I go to would be $646
 
KevinRT

Do you know how many miles are on your friends bike?

That job had to be very expensive 8.5 hrs labor alone at the BMW shop I go to would be $646

Kevin,

Not sure if that's a comment on the time charged for, or the expense of the job.. hence my original comment:

Including a clutch (where the bike is basically broken in 2)? "While the bike was apart he had them replace the clutch plate and related parts as the clutch had got fried"
 
Fix Cost

KevinRT

Do you know how many miles are on your friends bike?

That job had to be very expensive 8.5 hrs labor alone at the BMW shop I go to would be $646

I wasn't going to mention the cost but as this is relatively anonymous, the total bill for the U-joint and clutch repair came to $2770. His bike had about 58,000 miles on it - an '05.
 
Not exactly great mileage for a driveline but I guess not so surprising with the abuse described. Sure hope mine does double that, though.
 
Someone mentioned the joint could have been greased. I did not see any grease fittings on the u-joint shown in the pics.
Anybody know for sure if the Hexheads have serviceable u-joints?
I think I will put my 08 RT on the stand tonight, put in neutral and give her a spin and feel for consistent smooth operation.
Most of us expect our Beemers to be very dependable considering the price of these wonderful machines.
I do know of a friend who came to work one morning and found his FD shaft input housing cracked and leaking fluid on his Yamaha Virago.
I love my RT
 
Went through something similar with my friend's 07' RT at around 36k miles. Thankfully, he noticed the drive shaft sounding "clunky" and we opened it up to find the u-joints in the process of failing. We removed the drive shaft and sent it up to Bruno's in Canada and had the u-joints replaced with serviceable ones. The standard ones are supposed to be greased for life and they are sealed.

Since my bike is up around 80k, I'm considering pulling my drive shaft out and preemptively changing out the u-joints to beefier serviceable ones.

Not sure why they fail. One of our concerns was that moisture may have gotten in through the boot seal.
 
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