moving the rally to the spring or fall

Statdawg said:

Yeah go to cooler areas. You mean Canada ? The country that our vendors hate to go to ? If we get any further north we may have to change our music selection.

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The vendor issue is a shame and really diminished the rally in Trententon (SP?). However, I did go and enjoyed the rally. As I recall, the weather was nice. The lake helps moderate the heat and provides some convective winds during the day. Unfortunately, if you're on the leward side of the lake, you'll probably have an afternoon thunderstorm.

Music selection? It's probably more diverse and higher quality in Canada. From Vancouver's west coast progressive bands to Natalie MacMaster and family of Cape Breton, Canada is the next best thing to Ireland/Scotland for live music.

Statdawg said:

Yeah go to cooler areas. You mean Canada ? The country that our vendors hate to go to ? If we get any further north we may have to change our music selection.

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I think Homeland Security has pretty much eliminated Canadian rally possibilities. Most people who don't normally travel to other countries would not bother with the hassle.

There are some very good points raised in this thread.
Personally, Riding great distances in 95 degree heat can be deadly to many of us avid rally attendees.
What percentage are teachers, professors or parents of school age kids that would attend a rally? I am sure it is quite low.
I am a 65 yr old sales rep with a grown daughter who has her own family. I chose to pass on this rally at the last minute to avoid being a statistic. I rode about 50 miles on Monday in full gear and thought I was going to pass out.
I was packed and ready to load the bike when I checked the weather channel.
Home I stayed, even though I had a vacation scheduled.
I personally would prefer a late September rally when it is a bit cooler and the leaves are turning.
My hat is off to all who did attend this year's rally and I really hope all home safely at the end of the trip.
Out of 30 to 35 members of the club I belong to, only 6 went this year for heat related reasons (2 came in an rv).
I hope the board realizes the attendance drop when considering future dates after Sedalia.

osbornk said:

I think Homeland Security has pretty much eliminated Canadian rally possibilities. Most people who don't normally travel to other countries would not bother with the hassle.

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Getting into Canada isn't a problem. Their customs agents are fast, friendly and efficient. It's coming back into the states where you get the third degree! For vendors, that might be too much of a pain, but it sure is a beautiful country!

I have wondered how many, if any, attending summer rallies fall victim to road incidents caused by the heat stress of long rides,especially given the average age of BMWMOA members.

I decided to pass on the rally once the location was published. The hot weather (yes it is a bit hotter than average though) at the site is very predictable this time of year- its a low altitude and unless you've been sleeping, its not hard to notice that weather conditions are on average hotter now than 20 - 40 years ago. I did RA when it was in VT and my ride through PA was in 102 air temps- but at least VT was a week of very nice riding conditions. Bloomsburg isn't going to be that way in Jul any time in the foreseeable future unless a freak cold front hangs around and you still have the problem of getting there safely.

I am attending UNRally in a few weeks and our local BMW group will have at least as many folks there as in Bloomsburg. The NC mt location for it pretty much guarantees great riding conditions tempered only by whatever rain might happen. Couldn't do MOA at the same spot though, way too small.

32232 said:

snip......By placing the rally in the middle of the hottest part of the year, statistically we are bound to get uncomfortably warm weather.......snip....

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The normal high for Sedalia at the end of July is around 88. Is that uncomfortably warm? At this point in time, there is an equal chance of the 2012 high being higher or lower than 88.

The folks who sponsor other rallies aren't going to appreciate the big gorilla BMWMOA moving its rally dates around without some close collaboration.

To the point about target customers, why not choose a permanent date outside of the summer vacation season? How far school age riders travel could be studied, but I wager that they are close enough that they would miss only a day or two of school to attend the rally.

36654 said:

Moondog,

I get your point on location and time of year, but catering to the majority can be dangerous. I can remember when there were arguments about the club being too mid-western and union friendly (by picking a union printer vs a cheaper non-union shop). It seemed that a lot of those old timers were skilled tradesmen that worked in the auto and machinery companies of the mid-west. They had good jobs and were mechanically inclined, so motorcycles were a good hobby for them. In addition, back in the day, many factories shut-down for two weeks in July, so you had to take some of your vacation then.

Today, based on my precise, but potentially in-accurate, anecdotal observation, we are heavily populated by military and LEO retirees. These folks have time and income to afford the bikes and attend rallys. They have secure benefits, so a more flexible lifestyle is possible which allows taking vacation whenever. But, I can tell you as a person that hopes to have his gov't pension benefits honored someday, tilting the the club policies to this current majority could be reckless. As many of you know, the concept of a gov't pension, which would include the military and LEO's, is anathema to a large segment of the population and these programs many end in the near future. As such, tilting our club rules and structures, to this current majority might lead to fashioning a club who's membership could evaporate, just like those old guys from the mid-west that worked in those factories...........

If you want to re-fashion club policies, I think you should look to the folks in their 30 &40's that will, hopefully, be the next generation of old members. These members, I assume, have the least amount of vacation time and schedule flexibility. The rally, or rallies, should be structured to attract these folks, in my opinion.

For reference, I'm beyond the 30 & 40 yo age group and 10+ yrs from retireme
nt. I've been in the club for 26-yrs as just a member, since the age of 25.

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You lost me on this one....? I can't imagine military and LEO's make up the majority. I don't have proof but where's yours?

I am past 50 myself. And I agree the target should be 30 and greater. But to cater to high schoolers? Or even those in college? That is catering to a very small group. They can attend after they have finished their schooling. And then IMHO you won't see them until later anyway. After they're done trying to kill themselves on a rice rocket.

Cater to teachers? Why? The rest of us have to take time off to go. Why should they be special? Join the real world and take time off like everyone else. Or wait until the rally shows up in the summer time in Vermont.

Most of the people I know who have attended in the past are still working stiffs and have to take time off anyway whether it is July or September. And retirees can do as they damn well please. Riders have always found a way to get to a rally, short of it being 3000 miles away. That is why it's moved around. But there is a better chance of it being hotter than Hades in July than in September. I like the suggestion of moving it to a season that matches the location. Try it once.
I heard there's nice riding in New Mexico but in July? Pass. October or November? Sure. Hurricanes on the East coast? Well we can protect ourselves from rain but the heat we can't. If we want perfect weather every year then have it in San Diego or Key West.

But why are we arguing about moving the rally time? It’s not going to increase the ranks of young BMW riders. If we want to get more people on BMW's we have to convince BMW to stop driving dealers under. Screw their elitists attitude where they want the show room just so or you have to buy a certain amount of product. Chicago BMW just went under. They keep on making it difficult to own a dealership, they’re going to put themselves out of business.
My next bike, if I am still in Georgia won't be a BMW because there isn't a dealer within 2 hours. There is a Honda dealer right in town. Why buy a bike that you have to drive 100+ miles to get your bike serviced? And some have to drive more. No, quit haggling over the rally date, we have more important issues to be concerned over

Mika said:

<snip>
The list can go on. My membership number is 36909. I do agree there are very visible members that would help move the issue along; however, they are 'visible' and 'influential' because they saw issues and followed through with actions. It can take a very long time and a great deal of effort but I doubt it will happen until membership peons, BOD peons and committee peons work through the idea independent of the running of the rally as is.

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I'm just back from Bloomsburg (due to another commitment to be in NC tomorrow!), and as a first-time rally-goer I want to amplify on this. We got the chance to meet Ray Zimmerman and some of the other folks that I'd consider "influential members." All of them were down-to-earth, intelligent, interesting people. I plan to go back, and to be more involved, simply because I met some really cool people I'd like to hang out with more. All the vendors, and the bands, and other stuff at the rally was fun, but it's the people I met that make me want to come back. My membership number is 130275, but nobody cared what my number was. They wanted to get to know me, at least a little, and every single one of them thanked me for coming and for helping out a little.

I also took on a very minor role in the rally organization, and I was astounded at the amount of hard work and detailed planning that's needed to pull off a rally like this. It's a movable city of 8 to 10 THOUSAND people! I understand now why putting on a rally like this takes a couple of years of hard work. If the folks involved in the rally were to decide today to make this change, I'd be surprised if it could be pulled off for 2015. The work it takes to make this rally happen is invisible to most rallygoers, but it's very, very real.

I think moving the rally to a different time of year could have some benefits, whether it's the weather or making rally attendance possible for folks who haven't been able to go in the past. To do that, we need people to step up and say, "I'll be happy to serve on the panel studying the potential benefits and impacts." And if Seminars, or Security, or Vendors, or Entertainment, or Registration, or a host of other functions have to be done differently, we'll need people to step up and say, "I'll do the work needed to make that happen." In the end, this club rises or falls on the work of all of us who volunteer.

I have been riding motorcycles since 1977 BMW's since 1982. For most of the time my vacation travel is after labor to before Memorial weekends. I have not wanted to travel in the heat and when the high vacation travel time is going on. I would be more apt to make a National if it was in Sept. Most of the my travel has been in Sept thru Oct. with a couple times mid May. Had some rain and snow at these times. But over all weather has always been good. I am also a member of a national British Car club that has there National normal in July and the heat has been an issue with them. The move there National to later in the year and the number of people seems to be the same. I think we need to put this to a vote to all the members and see what the members would like.

I am a just returned MOA member who carry's a 10 year pin, so my comments on the annual rally may be considered out of line by some.

I really wanted to attend this year but family obligations got a priority. While we were traveling I noted several BMW's all heading in a general direction of the rally , my thoughts were " I wish it were me, but not in this heat"

I have been riding a newer Triumph Bonneville for the last 5 years ( just bought an old AirHead) and our group the NTBF holds two rally's every year.

In the spring we go to Maggie Valley, our attendance is about 45-50 riders. The rally is specifically unstructured as much as possible, we get a few vendors , but they are on vacation and rarely bring along items to sell, unless you ordered something and they are delivering it to you. We do have a small rally fee to cover the cost of a shirt and a Saturday night group dinner that volunteers, shop for , cook and clean up.
The rest of the time is spent riding !

In the fall we have a smaller get together at a location that can be changed each year as we choose. The last few years we have gone to Linneville Falls, NC.
This year we are going to Natural Bridge State Park in Slade , KY.
The location change was made by popular decision and the fact that a regular member was willing to step up and do the leg work to find a new spot and to accomodate some of the folks who did not wish to travel so far south again this year.

We choose to keep our rally's as old school as possible, we are not brand specific, and prefer to ride and share time together bench racing and talking about how fast we, are/were/ or where we would like to go and ride someday.

While I enjoy the larger type rally's , I prefer to take them in small doses.

glenfiddich said:

Getting into Canada isn't a problem. Their customs agents are fast, friendly and efficient. It's coming back into the states where you get the third degree! For vendors, that might be too much of a pain, but it sure is a beautiful country!

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+1. I feel welcome going to Canada and most unwelcome coming home. Something is wrong here.

I agree too!! Coming back into the USA is a pain but the Canadians are so very welcoming.

36654 said:

Moondog,

I get your point on location and time of year, but catering to the majority can be dangerous. .

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Yup, why have a club that is run the way the majority want it, the club is really for the chosen few and the lemmings will just go along. This is certainly how it appears, especially given Deb's response to the question. Same old, same old. Kind of sorry I just renewed my membership, don't think I'll renew next year unless I see a more responsive board.

roy said:

How many could not make the rally if it was ran when school was in session? Rather they are teachers or just parents this could be an issue.

I suspect you would find some that would complain if you had the rally in the spring or fall and the night time temperatures dropped into the 50's or 60's. Last time I checked you can't please every one.

Roy

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roy,

So you are saying that the 10,000 + folks at the rally were "free" in July because they are all unemployed or retired? If you want to come you plan to take vacation that weekend. As far as kids during school you may have a point, but then how many leave their kids behind at home with caretakers in July? Arrangements can be made.

In my club there were over a dozen that would have attended this year except for the weather. I made the trip but only two nights then went home.

roy said:

How many could not make the rally if it was ran when school was in session? Rather they are teachers or just parents this could be an issue.

I suspect you would find some that would complain if you had the rally in the spring or fall and the night time temperatures dropped into the 50's or 60's. Last time I checked you can't please every one.

Roy

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Doubleplay said:

You can never compare West Coat weather to East Coast, unless you have never been there. Actually it's the dew point what makes the difference not the humidity.

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Dew Point: The dew point is the temperature to which a given parcel of humid air must be cooled, at constant barometric pressure, for water vapor to condense into water. The condensed water is called dew. The dew point is a saturation temperature.

Not sure what you are driving at. Low to mid percent humidity is much more comfortable at any temperature. Step out of the pool in the desert at 110 degrees and you will feel like you are in a freezer for a while. Can't have that happening 90% humidity.

I would have rather gone to Arizona in July. All you have to do is get wet to be comfortable.

August?

How about late August, before schools start? I could be mistaken, but I think it would be cooler in general then than in mid-July.

Heat at the really has been an issue as long as I can remember. I was discouraged about going to this year's rally because I knew it would be hot, hot -- as have many preceding rallies. Some may feel that makes me a wimp or one who is not truly an MOA devotee.

But wait. I started the national rally MSF riding courses and ran them for 14 straight years (no one else has done that). I started the vintage BMW motorcycles display at the national rallies. I co-founded BMW MOA in 1972 (http://www.bmwdean.com/founders.htm). I am an MOA ambassador and recipient of the International Council of BMW Clubs' and BMW AG's Freund der Marke award. I am a past board member, past vice president, and past president of MOA. I think that makes me pretty dedicated to the good fortune of BMW MOA.

I know that the board has been very reluctant to change the national rally date. However I think it should re-investigate the matter.

GSCookeMnster said:

Yup, why have a club that is run the way the majority want it, the club is really for the chosen few and the lemmings will just go along. This is certainly how it appears, especially given Deb's response to the question. Same old, same old. Kind of sorry I just renewed my membership, don't think I'll renew next year unless I see a more responsive board.

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Amen. The reason that the MOA is that way is simple. Only a few dedicate their time to get these events done. So they get to make the calls. Until that changes, nothing else will.

One last thought,

Our sister association the RA has their rally not only in different places like we do, but at different times as well. How do they do that? Why they must be wizards.

Words of Wisdom Well Spoken by Founding Father Jeff Dean and by sparkchaser. VOTE!!!

sparkchaser1200 said:

One last thought,

Our sister association the RA has their rally not only in different places like we do, but at different times as well. How do they do that? Why they must be wizards.

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+1, Gunny. Well spoken sparkchaser and point well taken, my Riders Association Number is 21856 and I'm a long time RA Member. It is interesting that RA has no problems whatsoever holding the RA Rally in different places and with different times from year to year. And never with a catastrophe! Way too tough for MOA?

"I know that the board has been very reluctant to change the national rally date. However I think it should re-investigate the matter." Jeff Dean Quotation

Words of Wisdom from BMW MOA Founding Father Jeff Dean. Decision time has definitely come to re-investigate the matter of Spring or Fall Rallies; way overdue!


SCHOOLS: Much has been made about having to have the MOA Rally next to last weekend of July every year because otherwise it interferes with school.

Is everyone familiar with just how many School Districts have gone to year round school in the USA? My Son Seth (14) is in one of many Arizona school districts that have year round school. He is already back in school and couldn't have attended Bloomsburg with his Daddy Don anyway. I'm not familiar with California and Utah, but I do know Nevada and New Mexico also have year round school!

A fall rally would get my vote, especially for places east of the Rockies.

Kids in school has never been a problem for us. We have four kids and try to take them to Colorado skiing every February. The schools have never had a problem with this. (Anybody know how many kids attend the Rally? Is this a serious issue or exaggerated?)

I am in my 40s (not for much longer) and my vacation time is limited. I prefer not to take motorcycle trips in the middle of hot summer.