Final Drive Issue 2008 R1200RT

2008 R1200RT with 32K miles.

This evening after coming home on the bike, I noticed a growling noise from the rear. The rear tire is about 90% worn, but I also noticed the final drive was quite hot. I could still put my hand on it, but it seemed like maybe it was too hot. I don't have anything to judge that by. There appears to be no side to side play in the drive.
Any thoughts?

sometimes a well worn tire can make an unusual noise especially if inflation press. is low. If you can hold your hand on the drive it's likely under 130 deg. f. I would change the oil and check the old oil for metal. good luck hope it turns out ok. the outboard seal went in my gs last summer on the way home from the MOA rally and it had me worried for a while but a new seal installed by the good dealer in Calgary and 20000 kilometers later still working great.

Tire likely;

A really worn tire will growl loudly in curves, not so much if at all in the upright straights. My GSA1200 FD is hot too, just being able to keep my hand on it a few seconds. 180ccof oil in there isn't much oil, so its hotter than my Airhead FD with much more oil in it. I personally wish they had designed the FD to carry more oil, like the older ones! The synthetic oil can take the heat, however the bearings won't after about 300 degrees they are getting into trouble. The syn oils will go to 600-700, bearings NO. I think the FD is getting to 200+, not near 300. I speculate some and wish I had a temp gauge on my FD too. Randy

FD Heat question???

Anybody know about these? I've heard about heat marker pens, crayons or the like, that you can mark the case and if/when the mark disappears, you know you've passed that heat level? The marker crayons come in various levels of heat ranges, SO if one were to mark his FD with a marker like this, one would know just how hot or nearly so it gets. I'm asking, do these still exist? Maybe a seasoned wrench out there knows this answer. Randy

Just had my final drive rebuilt on my 07 with 25K. It didn't make any noise, it never got hot and there was no metal in the oil. My dealer found a certain amount of roughness in it when they were putting tires on my bike. I too felt the roughness once they took the rear tire off. When you spin the rotor you could feel it, couldn't feel it with the wheel on.
The large bearing is a sealed one and is not lubricated by the gear oil. Take your wheel off and see if you can feel any roughness at all, you shouldn't feel any. It should feel just like the front wheel.

Thanks everyone.
I'm going to put new tires on today and see what it feels like. I do feel a little roughness in the gears without the wheel on, so I may stop my the dealer anyways.
Oh.......2 weeks out of warranty so I will test the 5 year thing mentioned above.

Polarbear said:

Anybody know about these? I've heard about heat marker pens, crayons or the like, that you can mark the case and if/when the mark disappears, you know you've passed that heat level? The marker crayons come in various levels of heat ranges, SO if one were to mark his FD with a marker like this, one would know just how hot or nearly so it gets. I'm asking, do these still exist? Maybe a seasoned wrench out there knows this answer. Randy

Click to expand...

Yessir, they are referred to as "temperature crayons" and are used quite extensively in large equipment manufacturing where pre-heating to a specific level is critical for the welding of differing types of steel. I am not sure just how much range is available in them, a welding supply house (good one) should be able to shed some light on that.

Polarbear said:

Anybody know about these? I've heard about heat marker pens, crayons or the like, that you can mark the case and if/when the mark disappears, you know you've passed that heat level? The marker crayons come in various levels of heat ranges, SO if one were to mark his FD with a marker like this, one would know just how hot or nearly so it gets. I'm asking, do these still exist? Maybe a seasoned wrench out there knows this answer. Randy

Click to expand...

Hi Randy and all, a good way to check things like this is with a non-contact infrared thermometer. I'm a big fan of the Fluke brand but there are others.

Some don't want to make the investment for what is considered an occasional use tool but it actually can be used quite a bit. An example would be checking the basement temps this past winter as it was a tough one. On the bike you can check side to side temps and even the temps of the heated hand grips. HTH Gary

Great

I thought about these crayons and if they might work as a early warning mark on a FD? Seems if the FD was getting too hot, this would make a good warning, using a right temp crayon marker on the case, Thinking too much here. The bearing sealed was unknown to me too, not running in oil! I am about to embark on a 8000m+ journey this Saturday to the rally in PA, so I'm going out in the garage and doing some more checks on my GSA1200 FD right now. Thanks all. Randy

Thx

That infra red temp pistol is neat too and probably expensive. I see'em used at all my large Costco accounts I service weekly. Wonder how hot they read? My stores use them for temping meats and dairy goods. Thanks, Randy

PaulWitt said:

Thanks everyone.
I'm going to put new tires on today and see what it feels like. I do feel a little roughness in the gears without the wheel on, so I may stop my the dealer anyways.
Oh.......2 weeks out of warranty so I will test the 5 year thing mentioned above.

Click to expand...

You shouldn't feel any roughness what so ever. It should feel fluid just like the front wheel. I would strongly suggest bringing it to the dealer and getting their opinion.

Polarbear said:

Anybody know about these? I've heard about heat marker pens, crayons or the like, that you can mark the case and if/when the mark disappears, you know you've passed that heat level? The marker crayons come in various levels of heat ranges...

Click to expand...

I use something called a TempilStik when disassembling airhead transmissions. The crayons are available in various colors that melt at specified temperatures.
http://www.tempil.com/thumbnail.asp?cid=22

McMaster-Carr has a similar generic temperature crayon.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#temperature-crayons/=cxygvh

PaulWitt said:

2008 R1200RT with 32K miles.

This evening after coming home on the bike, I noticed a growling noise from the rear. The rear tire is about 90% worn, but I also noticed the final drive was quite hot. I could still put my hand on it, but it seemed like maybe it was too hot. I don't have anything to judge that by. There appears to be no side to side play in the drive.
Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

My '05 RT exhibited 'growling' and a super-heated FD housing at 49,000 miles.

FD had puked. $2,000 to replace. BMW simply offered up $500 in 'sympathy cash' and went on about their business.

I wish you better luck.

And no - warranty is till 3 yrs/36k.

Greenwald said:

And no - warranty is till 3 yrs/36k.

Click to expand...

You have harshed my mellow......

Don't forget the 3/9 & 6/12 checks - hold the wheel on opposite sides & see if you can wiggle it. Pretty solid sign of FD failure if you can move it more than a teensy bit.

--chiba

Paul,

Please read: http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=46055 - I'm adding that info to your thread title.

It's also worth checking if your rear brake caliper is dragging. That's almost endemic on the hexheads.. it appears BMW or whoever assembled it failed to lubricate the pins the sliding caliper slides on. Piece of cake to do: remove the brake pads (pull out pin and jiggle them out, you don't have to remove the caliper); Move the caliper all the way in toward the wheel; Pull back the little accordian boots on the pins; Put a small dab of high-temp grease on the pin; Slide the caliper in and out until the grease is spread evenly; Recenter the caliper on the rotor and jiggle the pads back in. Make sure the wheel turns easily.

I have seen dragging pads cause a very hot rear drive just due to heat being transferred.. and greasing the pins will make the rear pads last longer, give you better fuel mileage (probably..) and lessen the brake dust on the rear wheel.

FWIW - as far as the infrared thermometer gun - Harbor Freight. It's not a Fluke, but it also only costs about 1/5th the price. Cheap enough to buy for giggles.

Since you're so close to being under warranty - appealing to your friendly local dealer for assistance (assuming it is the rear drive) should yield results if the dealer has serviced the bike. Chances are less if you DIY, and probably even less if you DIY and didn't buy the materials and supplies from the dealer. Having a record of the required 12k change interval service for the rear drive will help. As Paul Glaves has mentioned many times - it's really up to the dealer if you will get assistance. If they tell BMW you're a good customer, and likely to be a repeat customer, BMW generally coughs up good-will money.

Good luck, and PLEASE include year/model in the thread titles.

Checked mine, all good

My '07 GSA is at 65000m now and the FD checked out aok this AM. I took the wheel and brake calipre off the bike, to check the feel with no load on it, as suggested above. The bearing had no roughness at all, very smooth. Now, just get me to PA and back! Thanks for the Harbor Frieght tip and I have one of the stores near me. I did a 30 mile ride and found I could touch my FD for more than a few seconds, so its NOT too hot, thanks goodness. Randy, "veteran" FD failure on my last bike, '01KLT1200.

New tires installed. Still makes a growling noise. Doesn't seem like a brake rotor issue.
I think it's dealer bound tomorrow morning and I hope we have this resolved by the rally in PA.
No side to side play, just a deep growling noise.

Paul,
My dealer ( Hermy's, Port Clinton, Pa) rebuilt my final drive in a day. The cost was around $600. I had a choice as to which sealed bearing could be installed. BMW with a two year unlimited mileage warranty or aftermarket with no warranty. Price was about the same and Hermy's had both in stock. I went aftermarket. If your problem is the final drive you might ask your dealer if they stock aftermarket along with the OE and ask their opinion especially if BMW isn't going to pick up the tab.
Good Luck and I hope you make Bloomsburg!