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Thread: 1975 r60/6 timing issue

  1. #1
    thechimasta
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    1975 r60/6 timing issue

    I have been doing some basic maintenance and one of the things I tried to do was make sure the timing was correct. The timing is retarded, but I've rotated the timing plate as far as it will go and it is still retarded. could it be a loose timing chain? I'm really not sure what could be wrong. I would think that I would notice something strange if the chain jumped, but my experience with engines is still fairly small, though with my trusty clymer manual I'm learning more as I go. The bike is a 1975 r60/6 and if it matters, it was on the early end of that production year. (seven hundred something out of 5000) Unfortunately I don't know how many miles are on it, since the odometer doesn't work, but I'd guess it could be anywhere from 20 to 50k. any suggestions or possible causes would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    James.A
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    Double check the point gap. The points gapped a bit too narrow would require a few more degrees of revolution before the point cam contacts the guide block/lip/nub portion of the point set. That would make the coils fire a bit later in the rev.

  3. #3
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    On the other hand, with an R60/6, you might actually want the timing to be retarded! Since they tended to ping, retarding the timing would help that. But, as indicated, the points gap has a great affect on the location of the timing point. Two cylinder bikes can tolerate quite a range of points gap and still run, probably from 0.012" to 0.022". The gap only becomes more important on multi cylinder vehicles, like V-6 or V-8s.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  4. #4
    thechimasta
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    thanks for the info. I had set my gaps to .016, but I might try moving them out just a bit to see how it reacts. for the most part it seems to be running fine now. I had just wanted to make sure it was set correctly before I tackled adjusting the carbs. I can't really afford to now, but I'm considering putting the dyna 3 electronic ignition in it at some point.

  5. #5
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    I think I've heard that "most electrical problems are carb related"! Sometimes poor running is thought to be electrical but after troubleshooting, they find that the carbs were out of synch.

    As for the electronic ignition, I like the Dyna III and have it installed on my /7. The only disadvantage of the Dyna as it relates to the R60/6 is the issue with the advance curve. The Dyna uses the stock ATU or automatic timing unit so you get the fixed rate of advance with the springs and bob weights. A better choice would be the latest Boyer unit which has selectable advance curves. Slowing the rate of advance for the R60/6 would help with the tendency for pinging.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  6. #6
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    Are you doing a static time or dynamic with a timing light? If you're using a timing light and you see the timing marks jumping around instead of advancing steadily, I'd pull our your advance unit. Clean it up, replace the springs, and then reset your timing.

  7. #7
    thechimasta
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    thanks again for the suggestions. I had actually already replaced the springs, but I did go through and clean the advance just to be thorough. I set the gap out to .020, and it did have an effect, but not nearly enough to bring it where it should be. I'm kind of flabbergasted by it, as the timing is so far off that you can't even see the marks, yet it runs. I'm not getting any backfire unless it's really cold.
    What I'd really like to do is almost a complete rebuild. I'm having other issues besides this one. In fact if this was the only issue, I wouldn't be worried about it. It also won't idle (though I haven't tried adjusting the carbs yet.) It just idles low and dies, even when it's warm, though after a 30 mile trip on the interstate, it will sometimes idle when I'm stopped. I'm also having some electrical issues with turning signals ( only work intermittently, and flash really quickly when they do work, unless it's running at low rpm after I've been riding, then sometimes they work almost correctly.) and the neutral light doesn't work. and I think my charge light quit working also, though it's definitely charging the battery. I don't suppose these things might stem from a bad rectifier?
    about the re-build though, I don't know that I want to take it apart completely, as it has good compression (120 on both sides) so I'm assuming the rings and valves are still in good shape.

  8. #8
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Poor idle -- when's the last time you checked your valves. When the valves, especially the exhaust are tight, you'll get this kind of symptom.

    Charging but no light -- Generally, this can't happen...unless someone has made a mod to the bike. Snowbum discusses a resistor mod that bypasses the gen light so that charging can still continue even if the light burns out.

    Gap -- typically the gap changes have a large effect on moving the timing point around. Have you verified that the flywheel is positioned properly on the end of the crank? Simple enough to do...pull a plug and rotate the engine, watching when the piston comes to a stop at TDC. Rock it back and forth to find the middle point and the OT mark should be somewhere in the window. If not, then the flywheel is off by one bolt. The bike will still run but timing has to be set by ear rather than the timing marks.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  9. #9
    thechimasta
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    Finally got the timing set. I checked the flywheel and it was correct. I turned out that I was advanced, not retarded, and so I set the gap down to about .012 to .014 and turned the plate as far as it would go, and my timing is on. it helped that I used static timing to make the adjustments. That made it much easier. when I got it right I used my light to double check it and it's good. I also set the throttle stops on my carbs and it's idling. Now if I can get the mixture optimized, I'll be a happy camper. Unfortunately, the way my climer manual told me to do it wasn't working well for me. I removed the right plug wire and grounded it to the block to adjust the right, but it wouldn't hold the idle with just the one cylinder, and I had a hard time hearing where it ran best. I might get a little help with that part. I'm just glad I finally walked away smiling instead of scratching my head like I usually do

  10. #10
    Don't forget your towel
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    I think you have your mixture and idle crossed. The idle mixture screw is the small flat-head screw just in front of the float bowls, this is adjusted in small increments either in or out until the fastest idle is achieved on that side, now do the other side. Once smooth your idle mixture is set.

    Setting the idle speed/balance on your /6 can be done using the plug-shorting method, easiest if you have a set of extensions. I have a picture someplace. I think Snowbum has a description of how to do it too. I will look around my files. This is also when you use the stop screws, making sure there is slack in the cables. Don't forget to balance the free play so you are pulling both butterflies open evenly.
    Steve
    "...your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride" A. Bourdain

  11. #11
    Don't forget your towel
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    I think I've heard that "most electrical problems are carb related"! Sometimes poor running is thought to be electrical but after troubleshooting, they find that the carbs were out of synch.
    Funny, one of my Fiat-driving mentors told me just the opposite! "Most carb problems are electrical in nature."
    Steve
    "...your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride" A. Bourdain

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