Single Malt Imbiber
Armec side cars, Anyone know values?
What's an Armec sidecar worth? Specifically whats it worth to my Credit Union? How can I show them it is worth anything? No prices offered on NADA, or KB. They don't know what to do without "established" info in hand. The BMW tug is in fine shape but it's 15 years old and book on it is just under 2k.
Apparently the leading link, tire conversion, and subframe, which amounts to thousands is not worth anything to them
Last edited by Sanders; 12-07-2010 at 05:58 PM.
Few motorcyclists or motorcycle dealers know anything about sidecars, so it's a stretch to assume a bank, credit union, or insurance underwriter would have any information about the value of sidecars.
You might find some sales information about Armec, say an advertisement for a used one, or an old ad from Armec, or a magazine review that shows the price.
Or, you might contact a motorcycle dealer or sidecar installer known to handle Armec. I'm thinking of Bob's BMW in Maryland. Bob had a Tremola combo for several years for sale.
Bear in mind that the Armec importer for a number of years was known for jacking up the prices considerably. I know a guy who had his R1100 converted to a Tremola. With the various bells and whistles, and installation by Classic C Sidecars in New Jersey, I think his cost was over $30,000--not including the bike.
I think that with today's dollar/Euro conversion, just about any used high quality European sidecar would be worth a minimum of $12,000. You can't import a new (unfinished, unmounted) EML of EZS sidecar kit for that price.
Single Malt Imbiber
Armec is very secretive about new pricing. I've read old threads where individuals paid a fee to learn pricing, and then were warned about posting prices in public forums. Sounds like they were actually warned of litigation.
I'm intrigued with a pending deal I have working, but don't really know what the actual worth is. The tug is high mileage, but done right, and the fellow selling it is a stand-up fellow from all appearances (E-mail mssgs., and his website). So more curiousity than "need to know"
I've got to get a copy of the Yellow Book!
Over the years, various sidecar manufacturers and importers have developed reputations for secret deals, multi-level pricing, etc.
For instance, the former Armec importer also had a deal with EZS (Netherlands) that he assumed gave him the sole import "license" for all USA. But as the years went by, he kept that a relative secret, and no one knew he would import EZS. Down the road a few years another sidecar company attempted to make a deal to import EZS, and had to prove to EZS that the "sole" importer hadn't actually marketed any. So, the second company got it's "license" to import.
So, the question is, did the Armec importer have a deal with EZS only to make sure no EZS cars were imported in competition with Armec? Or was it just an oversight that he never ran any EZS ads?
There is a basic value in a used sidecar (or combination) that represents the different pieces. With a sidecar, there is very little degradation. The difference between new and used is primarily a matter of paint, and that can be renewed. Typically a new kit will have unfinished pieces that need painting, so there is little real value difference between old and new--except for the perception that something "used" should be half the price of something "new."
A few riders build exotic sidecar rigs, spending much more for parts and modifications than they can hope to recover from selling the outfit. Not all outfits are worth what the owner is asking. But if the outfit includes special wheels, subframe, leading link, hydraulic brake, etc. it can be worth much more than the asking price--just because of supply and demand.
The Tremola had numerous options in addition to the special front end, car-style wheels, subframes, etc. A new Tremola kit (unpainted, not installed) might have been $20,000-up. (as sold in the USA by the importer)
Single Malt Imbiber
New Hack owner here.
Well, I bought it. I took your information Dave, along with whatever else I could find on line, and went for it.
Now I just have to wait for Spring before I can get to my Dad's place in Corralitos Ca. to pick it up.
Yeh, aren't you guys having a bit of a snowstorm about now?
Of course, option B could be installing studs in the tires and wiring yourself for heat.
Sidecar Pricing from out of country Manufacturers
Any of the companies will tell you what the suggested retail price is in thier market country and in thier currency. The problem is when an importer trys to bring these items to North America to sell them. The money markets fluctuate so rapidly even the banks can only give you an exchange rate based on the next 6-10 minutes. If you buy the foreign currency in that time period you know what the price of the item is at that time. Miss that window and it could cost you your shirt, pants, leather jacket and possibly a helmet or two.
After you add something on for the companies profit you could price yourself right out of the market you are selling in. Shipping is the other big cost fluctuation factor. If you bring in one sidecar for a customer it could run for example $2500.00. If you bring in a container full it could cost you $2500.00. If you are bringing in high end euro sidecars that would typically run 8 grand in thier market it can easily jump to 12 or 15 grand before you install it on your bike and add some profit for the retailer. A high end NA sidecar should be around 10 grand but then yours would be the same as all the others on the street.
If the NA importer cannot muster up enough sales to suit the manufacturer he can easily find himself being cutout by someone who makes it sound like he will be better at sales. The Europeans will not zip over for the weekend to see how to help their sales team because the cost and time away from thier shops do not justify the end. Some importers don't seem to want anyone else to sell there products and have little to no enthusiasm to set up dealers to market their chosen product.
Just some of the problems retailers have to consider
Last edited by SIDECARGUY; 01-04-2011 at 11:55 PM.
Reason: left a word out
I notice that Dauntless is now importing EZS sidecars from The Netherlands. EZS is similar in quality to the other dutch outfit, EML.
For several years, EZS (Engbers Sidecar Service) was imported by Pete Larson at Liberty Sidecars in Seattle. The various EZS models seemed to go well with BMWs, and EZS had worked out subframes, connectors, wheels, etc. for certain BMW models. When the bottom fell out of investments, sales of sidecars for BMWs dropped significantly, helped along by the loss of the dollar compared to the Euro. With few sales, Pete stopped importing EZS, and refocused on his Ace Cycle Car.
Meanwhile, back in the Netherlands, the old man Engbers apparently decided to retire, and I believe his son took over the business. The son has different ideas about business, naturally.
DMC (Dauntless Motor Corporation) in Enumclaw, 50 miles or so southeast toward the mountains from Seattle, gained a reputation for big honking dual sport outfits, so Jay and Tara Giese cooked up a deal with Engbers to be an EZS importer. DMC has lots of attachment fittings, and a crew of installers, so it's no problem to put just about any sidecar on any suitable motorcycle., with or without the special foreign kits.
Dauntless also builds their own Ural-look-alike with a sturdy frame and a fiberglass body, very suitable for installation on a big dual sport such as the BMW 1200GS, or for any heavyweight street machine.