Lane Splitting Debate

mototraveler said:

CA riders straighten me out if I am wrong, but aren't there some (possibly unwritten) rules about lane splitting like: only when traffic is 35 mph or under, don't exceed the prevailing traffic's speed by more than 15 or 20 mph (or maybe less), split between the left or fast lane and the lane to it's immediate right (on multilane roads). I'm sure there are more, can anyone expand on this?

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There are guidelines, but ask three cops what they are and you'll get three different answers. If they don't like what you are doing they can always cite you for reckless riding or, if you weren't reckless they can usually cite you for one (or both) of these:



assuming you weren't 100% in one lane 100% of the time.

I used to (mostly) filter or sometimes split lanes in DC when working as a MC messenger since getting to the head of the line saved me time (and therefore made me more money) and did split lanes during rush hour and never really got all that "comfortable" with it. Riding in traffic for 8-10 hours a day was wearing enough, it just added to the stress. Course now that was a bit different than just doing it for an hour or so commute. Luckily back then MC cops pretty much left us MC messengers be, guess they figured the job was hard enough why add to the "misery" and knew it was a "time was money" thing as well. Now I just avoid situations that would require it and if caught head for the shoulder when possible, even though its not legal.

I do think its one of those areas where people can get pretty heated/adamant about one side or other and when folks start throwing out insulting/derogatory terms or names for others views, other drivers/legislators etc, that pretty much does it for me, anything they may have to say on the subject becomes moot, whether or not their arguments are reasonable.

RM

rocketman said:

Now I just avoid situations that would require it and if caught head for the shoulder when possible, even though its not legal.

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In California I've found that the CHP especially are very protective of the shoulder. Their attitude is that it belongs to them and you should stay out. I'm sure that not all are that way, but there are enough that riding there for non-emergency reasons is asking for a citation.

marchyman said:

In California I've found that the CHP especially are very protective of the shoulder. Their attitude is that it belongs to them and you should stay out. I'm sure that not all are that way, but there are enough that riding there for non-emergency reasons is asking for a citation.

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Well that could well be true, as I said I mostly aviod having be in traffic that may trap me in stop and go, I know everyone is not so lucky as to be able to make such a choice as communting routes and such. I simply don't apply for jobs that require rush hour jams anymore or travel the thruways during those times. So its a rare day (like maybe 5 years ago being the last time!) I get jambed up and if I can't make up to nearest exit on the shoulder, I just pull off for a while.


RM

marchyman said:

In California I've found that the CHP especially are very protective of the shoulder. Their attitude is that it belongs to them and you should stay out. I'm sure that not all are that way, but there are enough that riding there for non-emergency reasons is asking for a citation.

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yeah, and i remember riding out your way and seeing the man parked on his bike about every quarter mile during rush hour. just to make sure you see them and don't try to pull a fast one.

do they still do that?

Visian said:

yeah, and i remember riding out your way and seeing the man parked on his bike about every quarter mile during rush hour. just to make sure you see them and don't try to pull a fast one.

do they still do that?

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I'm a retired old fart. What's rush hour?

From one old fart to another : your not only retired, you have forgotten way too much stuff to be showing up here without causing yourself embarrasment! It might be wise to just watch these threads from a distance-not that I plan to do the same. Uh, what was it you were saying?
BTW, I managed to live in several places/states over my working years & I'm happy to say that NOWHERE! did I have to deal with such a thing as"rush hour".

GrafikFeat said:

I used to hear that about the Adirondacks in NY.
Or... "I'm from NY." The reply: "The City?"

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Or western NY, see my sub-signature. I usually point out that there are 6 entire states, parts of Canada and even Washington DC that are closer then my humble abode.

kantuckid said:

From one old fart to another : your not only retired, you have forgotten way too much stuff to be showing up here without causing yourself embarrasment! It might be wise to just watch these threads from a distance-not that I plan to do the same. Uh, what was it you were saying?
BTW, I managed to live in several places/states over my working years & I'm happy to say that NOWHERE! did I have to deal with such a thing as"rush hour".

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What?! No RUSH HOUR?! How lucky can you get. The Seattle area is one of the worst. It never ends. The only lull is between 10:00am-11:00am, 2:00-2:30pm and 7:00pm-4:30am. They really need to wake up here and promote the use of motorcycle, provide motorcycle only parking (I think the normal day parking runs between $20&$30/day) and let us split lanes so we can "filter" through traffic.

mototraveler said:

What?! No RUSH HOUR?! How lucky can you get. The Seattle area is one of the worst. It never ends. The only lull is between 10:00am-11:00am, 2:00-2:30pm and 7:00pm-4:30am. They really need to wake up here and promote the use of motorcycle, provide motorcycle only parking (I think the normal day parking runs between $20&$30/day) and let us split lanes so we can "filter" through traffic.

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And how about all those passive-aggressive drivers up there? It's said that if ever 4 cars in the Puget Sound arrive at a 4-way stop, at exactly the same moment, all of Seattle will grind to a halt.

When we decided to move back to California a dozen years ago, I told my wife I was looking forward to the drivers in California.

H: "You think they're better than in Washington?"

D: "No, not a bit; in fact, they're probably worse."

H: "So why do you like them better?"

D: "Because they are actually trying to get somewhere!"

DarrylRi said:

And how about all those passive-aggressive drivers up there? It's said that if ever 4 cars in the Puget Sound arrive at a 4-way stop, at exactly the same moment, all of Seattle will grind to a halt.

When we decided to move back to California a dozen years ago, I told my wife I was looking forward to the drivers in California.

H: "You think they're better than in Washington?"

D: "No, not a bit; in fact, they're probably worse."

H: "So why do you like them better?"

D: "Because they are actually trying to get somewhere!"

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Hey, hi Darryl! Long time, no see. Things have not improved here since you left.

I DO think the drivers in CA are better than Washington, in general... You're much more likely to have a cage driver pull over for you (as a motorcyclist) in CA and they're more aware of what's going on around them.

I think WA drivers roll around in they're little cocoons only thinking about themselves or their telephone. They are selfish and believe only they own the road they are on. Most have a serious case of "entitlement" issues and think they should be the only ones on the road instead of thinking what they can do to help the traffic. I have seen people cut off others by driving down the lane separator between 2 lanes, just because they don't want to get passed, when they're in a jam.

There are just too few good drivers here that are not either totally selfish with an attitude or way too courteous (see above quote). We need more in between!

mototraveler said:

Hey, hi Darryl! Long time, no see. Things have not improved here since you left.

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Howdy, Karen! Good luck on your new venture!

I DO think the drivers in CA are better than Washington, in general... You're much more likely to have a cage driver pull over for you (as a motorcyclist) in CA and they're more aware of what's going on around them.

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Haven't spent a lot of time down here, have you?

A week ago or so I literally watched a rear end collision in my freeway lane, about 3 cars back. The traffic in front of me slowed abruptly; I was on my 4-ways immediately and had an eye in the mirror, because even though the guy behind me was slowing down, I could see trouble further back. I was ready to dive between the cars, but it only involved the hitter and the hittee. You really have to drive for everyone around you, down here.

The psychology of driving and its impact on our perceptions of driver awareness/skill

mototraveler said:

Hey, hi Darryl! Long time, no see. Things have not improved here since you left.

I DO think the drivers in CA are better than Washington, in general... You're much more likely to have a cage driver pull over for you (as a motorcyclist) in CA and they're more aware of what's going on around them.
(understand this is a general observation not meant as anything to be taken as Black&White and that there many factors involved beyond this still, speaking in General terms....)

I think WA drivers roll around in they're little cocoons only thinking about themselves or their telephone. They are selfish and believe only they own the road they are on. Most have a serious case of "entitlement" issues and think they should be the only ones on the road instead of thinking what they can do to help the traffic. I have seen people cut off others by driving down the lane separator between 2 lanes, just because they don't want to get passed, when they're in a jam.

There are just too few good drivers here that are not either totally selfish with an attitude or way too courteous (see above quote). We need more in between!

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Actually I think what we [often] perceive as differing skill levels is more about stress level.. here is something I wrote up after my little trip from DC to Western Mass last week....
(Understand this is just a general observation and I know there are many factors involved, but reducing it for arguments sake to just a comparison of skill or environment factors, I think environment may well play a larger role overall)

On a recent trip (by car) to see my Son in western Ma. I was struck by what I (at first) perceived to be a greater level of skill and more courteous driving habits of the motoring public as I headed north. Zipping along the New Jersey turnpike at 70-75, cars by and large stayed to the right except to pass, used their blinkers when changing lanes, maintained appropriate distances as the weather changed from rain to snow and seemed to understand the process of merging into traffic from the access points. After passing thru the mess around upper NJ west of NYC things once again seemed to indicate a similar skill curtsey level exhibited by the vast majority of drivers even given the deteriorating weather conditions as I once more found myself on less crowed condition along the NY thruway and then along the Mass turnpike heading toward Pittsfield Ma.

Same thing on the way back home several days later on a non weekday rush (Saturday). However for the 2 hours spent traveling the freeways around NYC in upper NJ I saw the same sorts of poor driving exhibited by many in and around the DC beltway and suburbia in general. The more so on the way up as I was passing thru on a Thursday rush hour and coming back on a non-rush hour Saturday mid-day…
Interesting

After thinking about this my conclusion is that our perception of the skill levels as well as actual courteousness of the driving public in any area has more to do with the given driving environment than any actual difference in skill level per se. I. E. when in a more rural or less crowed and therefore less stressful driving environment with fewer cars, more constant forward motion (i.e. the ability to maintain a more constant speed) fewer intersections or traffic congestion in general and where going anywhere involves greater distances where travel times are measured in hours rather than minutes or half-hours (such as urban settings) tend to result in less stressful situations and as one relaxes one is more inclined to drive with greater respect for others sharing the road. this then leads to both our own perception of others skills as well as having a direct impact on actual driving habits by both us and everyone else. I noticed this same thing when out west driving from Phoenix to Sedona and then up to the Grand Canyon. Jeanne pointed out at some point along the trip how there were very few folks on their cell phone once out of the city. I thought about for a bit then started checking for service at various intervals, as I suspected there was No cell service so not much point in using a phone. As we headed back into the city on our return the level of phone use quickly rose to levels I see around DC. And again once out of the city drivers seemed to be “better” but I suspect it had more to do with a reaction to the reduced stress of the less crowed open road.

Anyway, just a general observation but I think it really is more a matter of environment than skill set for any given location.

RM

Visian - yeah, they still do that. Maybe not every quarter-mile, but they are there. More likely, they will be behind the bush in the small island between the exit ramp and on-ramp; that way they can chase you in either direction. We do have idjits who think that it's ok to "just use it for a couple of feet" to get off the freeway.

Lane splitting? Depends where!

At highway speeds, I say no, because there is no need for it. What there is a need for are drivers with some gray matter between the ears, which means, if you are not passing at a positive rate, get the eff back over into the cruising lane and out of the passing lane. This seems to be one hell of a tough concept for your average driver to figure out on this continent.

In gridlock due to a high volume of traffic or due to an accident ahead, at speeds less than 15 MPH, why not. I've done so countless times while driving in Europe. In fact, the cars over there "part" for you; something you'd never see here simply because drivers over here get miffed if anyone can get ahead of them.

Rant on the dismal state of drivers on this continent now over.

GlobalRider said:

Lane splitting? Depends where!

At highway speeds, I say no, because there is no need for it. What there is a need for are drivers with some gray matter between the ears, which means, if you are not passing at a positive rate, get the eff back over into the cruising lane and out of the passing lane. This seems to be one hell of a tough concept for your average driver to figure out on this continent.

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That's because it isn't the law here, and it is over there. For example, the signs in California usually read "Slower Traffic Keep Right". Who you callin' slow??!

When my German friend came to understand that there was no requirement for "lane discipline", he said he wished he could pass on the right back home. I told him he'd come to hate it if it were so.

But your point about Americans having a chip on their shoulder about being passed is right on.

DarrylRi said:

That's because it isn't the law here, and it is over there. For example, the signs in California usually read "Slower Traffic Keep Right". Who you callin' slow??!

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Well if I'm on their butt, then they're slow...so they should move the eff over instead of driving side by side.

Not surprising, I have coworkers who told me if they're doing the speed limit, they'll be damned if they are going to move over. The point he is missing is it isn't his right to enforce the law.

DarrylRi said:

When my German friend came to understand that there was no requirement for "lane discipline", he said he wished he could pass on the right back home. I told him he'd come to hate it if it were so.

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But there is hardly ever a need to have to pass on the right.

Some of them just get impatient; my German friend does. If the highways are at capacity, of course you're going to find drivers in the passing lane; all lanes will be packed.

What gets me are the LKW drivers passing each other at a 1/2 KPH speed differential as they are blocking both lanes of the autobahn....like after ten hours they would be more than a couple of kms apart...wow! I've given them the finger at times...and so would have a lot of other drivers, if it were legal.

DarrylRi said:

But your point about Americans having a chip on their shoulder about being passed is right on.

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When I said "on this continent", that included Canadians. F...are drivers ever dense here.

I believe here in Washington it IS a law to stay out of the "fast" lane unless you are passing traffic. The cops must find it too much harder to enforce than the speed laws because they choose not to enforce it.

If the traffic laws that are already on the books were all enforced equally, not just the ones that make easy money, we might have a better traffic system.

I much prefer the signs saying "Keep right except to pass".

On many occasions while splitting lanes in traffic on the SoCal freeway system, the cars have "split" for me and other riders. The idiot who is still in the center of his lane and not looking in his mirrors is very likely to be from out of state.

If drivers would think in terms of enabling ALL the traffic instead of having a selfish entitlement attitude, we'd all be better off.

mototraveler said:

I much prefer the signs saying "Keep right except to pass".

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I've seen those. Amazingly, some driver's fail to understand simple English.

From the article I got that "Foon Rhee" is "confused AND scared" while in traffic where lane splitting in legal. So take BART {BayAreaRapidTransit}.
Lane splitting got me to work a lot of years in SoCal
It is a skill all riders should have in thier "bag of tricks", better than getting rear ended by the "confused & scared".