Snotgnott

Translation fees...love that one.

rant on...

In Qu?®bec, the most taxed province/state in the western hemisphere (yes, worse than Mass), we pay alot for everything.

The bike license is only about $50. Mandatory insurance is added on.
The insurance covers personal injury. If anyone is injured in a traffic accident in Qu?®bec, ALL costs are covered, regardless of lenght of recovery time (even drunk drivers are covered).

Motorcyclists have to add mandatory public responsibility insurance ($105 for my 25yr old beemer...cheap) and/or discretionnary collision (big $ for most bikes...BMWs ae cheap to insure).

Prices stated going up three years ago...from 250 to 620 in three years for me...250 to 1400 for sport bikes.

I don't mind paying my fair share...based on risk. I hate paying the same insurance as a 16yr old with no experience and 2-3 times the horsepower.

rant over...

I'll add...if anyone is looking for great deals on sportbikes, you can buy them very cheap in Qu?®bec now. Bike dealers will no longer take them as trade-ins since they cannot re-sell them.

DarrylRi said:

From Visian's picture show:

(Actually, I had just finished washing the bike and rode it back to the Beef Barn where the Vintage Display was held.)

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Well, your excuse sounds just like someone saying "Honest officer, I was just helping that sheep over the fence."

Great picture.

SIBUD said:

Well, your excuse sounds just like someone saying "Honest officer, I was just helping that sheep over the fence."

Great picture.

Click to expand...

Long ago, when my wife used to ride on the bike, we were touring the UK. She stopped me because she saw, up on the bluff next to the road we were on, a sheep stuck in the barbed wire fence. She got off the bike and, still wearing ATG, started climbing up the bluff. As she finally got close, I saw the sheep turn its head to look at her, then, frightened by the approaching spacewoman, stopped scratching its butt on the barbed wire and ran off.

No good deed goes unpunished.
<hr>
Now, as to the excuse part: no excuse intended. If the bike had stalled in that turn or I had a collision with a car or bike during the couple hundred yards back to the barn, there's no question that I would have at a minimum been scraped up. People have been killed falling off of a stopped bike, too.

But because we want to continue riding for a long time, we try to manage our risk. It's impossible to eliminate it and, because different people have different risk thresholds, they will take on more or less risk. When most of the population thinks you're taking on too much risk, they make whatever you're doing illegal. It seems to me that the trick is to keep most of the population from thinking about how much risk I'm taking on. Part of that is by managing the risk well, and part of it is not calling attention to it. Being lucky helps, too, but that's hard to predict.

I too was at the Redmund rally and the only time I rode with less than ATGATT (by the way what does that third letter T refer to, Dave?) was when I just donned helmet and boots to get from by camping spot to the tire vendor and back. And it scared me a bit.

The truth is that, after about 14 years of riding and two accidents - one of which kept me from getting to Gillette in 2008 - getting on the bike scares me. Fortunately, that feeling quickly goes away, replaced with all the thoughts of how I can ride safely and often fairly quickly. The training and the often-reread books by Mr. Hough renew my feeling of competence.

I am definitely a ATGATT person. If I can't find enough time to also cruise some backroads after doing some errands in the little town only 4 miles away, I take the car. I just won't ride without earplugs, helmet, long trousers held in place by long socks, leather trousers with suspenders, a jacket that lets the air flow with protection in case of a crash, riding boots and gloves, and my prescription glasses with magnetic sunglass attachment. And that is when the temperature is warm to hot. (I also have an electric jacket and gloves, bought at the rally, to extend my riding season.)

For me, donning all this gear not only makes for a more comfortable ride, it also reminds me that what I am about to do is dangerous. But I agree with Dave that what is INSIDE your head is what prevents accidents. The gear does minimize the damage to your body when things go wrong. And that does happen on occasion to very aware riders.

I have been a 98% of the time ATGATT. My recent accident which caused me to break my ankle as the bike landed on it has made me believe in being a 100% ATGATT. The first month of my wife doing everything for me, the second month of her doing everything but a few very private things, and the third month where I have been learning how to walk again has made me realize, my accident was not just affecting me.

I figure one more month of PT and I will be riding again. Can't wait.

just another take

I live on a backroad in BC popular with motorcylists of all stripes. The majority are Harleys, a large minority sport bikes, with some BMW's, Goldwings and other bikes in the mix.

EVERYBODY wears some sort of helmet. (Which tells you the cops take that law seriously here.) But these hot summer days it is highly unusual to not see bare skin on both upper and lower body. Can't comment on gloves and boots as they go by too fast from my limited view.

So I'm wondering if maybe BMW's are MORE DANGEROUS than Harleys, sportbikes, and Goldwings? WE have to wear ATGATT BECAUSE we know we could crash, while the Harley riders, (not generally speedsters) and the sportbikers (who are generally younger, thus immune from anything bad) and the Wingnuts (also not speedsters) ride in beach attire?

I envy their confidence. And I hope they all get home safe. I'm sure they must think that their skill and awareness will carry the day. As a person with two motorcycle accidents, both in conditions where I thought I thought I did everything right, I have become another ATGATT person.

Of course, what the seeming majority don't know is that there is good protective gear out there for wear in the heat that is more comfortable than bare skin. How did so many miss that?

Hey all: yesterday I was on M22 north of manistee (a very nice, twisty two lane) when I was passed by a 1500 Goldwing. Youngish couple who appeared to be either returning from or heading to the nearest beach. Classic outfit: "Bikerbeany" helmets, he a LOUD print shirt, cut-offs and sandals, her a VERY small swim suit, (I have a leather belt that covers more skin then that bikini did!) and flip-flops. They were going around 70 MPH and having a ball!! Said a little prayer for them and the EMT who would have to respond if they crashed. I don't wear ALL the gear, ALL the time, but I WON'T ride without most of the gear ALL of the time. Vaya con Dios, Dutch

pmdave said:

...the absolute dogma was ATTGATT...

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I'm not fond of dogma, absolute or otherwise. Choices don't usually consist of easy-to-pick-from blacks and whites. Instead, there are varying shades of gray with valid arguments on both sides muddying the picture.

Riding motorcycles is an exercise in risk analysis. ATTGATT or not, it's a hobby fraught with possible dangers. There are certainly some easy-to-do things, like wearing a helmet and jacket, to reduce the chances of serious injury. But being dogmatic about full ATTGATT attire (pants, gloves, boots, helmet, jacket, etc.) just to ride a couple of blocks to the post office might be taking things a bit far.

If someone is that worried about being injured in a crash, a motorcycle just might not be the best personal choice in transportation. I mean, it seems a bit neurotic to worry incessantly about full safety gear, then ride around town on the most unsafe legal vehicle imaginable.

Being careful, taking basic safety precautions, having fun and doing it all in moderation has always worked best for me — and that applies to more things in life than just riding motorcycles.

Some years ago I used to see a kid on a red Vespa who habitually rode in shorts, t-shirt and no helmet. It drove me crazy since I rarely ride without a protective jacket and never without helmet, gloves and long pants. I finally convinced myself not to worry because most people survive foolish youth with no lasting ill effects. I was crushed to hear that that young, good looking kid was killed about a half a mile from my home when a car pulled out in front of him. I understand it was a head injury.

My present community is a small city with low speed roads, perfect scooter territory. I wish I had some way to sticking a helmet on every one of the scooter riders who blows past in beach wear. It worries the hell out of me since most of the scooters are the 50cc jobbies that don't require a motorcycle license. Excellent. No helmet and no training...

Atgmott

Rode to Heath a couple of weeks ago with all the gear except the jacket.It was hot so it was liberating.All of The Gear/Most of The Time?

bruche said:

all of the gear/most of the time?

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This? AGMOTT?

did a "test ride" a while back.. down the block and back.. wearing my work clothes... I felt VERY exposed....

Well I'm guilty of riding SOTGATT when it's hot out, always a helmet, boots and gloves, Almost always my jacket but I ride in Duluth Trading Company Firehose Dungaree's which are similar to Carhartts in thickness and durability instead of my riding pants. I realize it's a risk but I suffer in the heat and prefer to be comfortable.

On the plus side I suppose, it's only nice a few months out of the year here and I ride ATGATT for the other 10 months. ......

I agree with this view, "What I've noticed over the years is that those who don't seem to know are often those who don't wear gear. To put this another way, maybe it's not the lack of gear that kills them, but the lack of mental skills."

I have been a MSF instructor for 18 years, and I wear "almost" all the gear ALL the time. My habit has been everything but riding pants, I just wear jeans with all the rest my gear. I still depend heavily on my riding skills to NOT get in trouble to begin with. But, I am planning to start using those padding/guards you wear under jeans to protect my hips and knees.

But I do feel, and based on what I have seen over the years as a MSF instructor, that those with the least training and worst skills, are usually the ones wearing the least gear. So, combine poor skills, with inadequate gear, and marginally good attitude about riding, and its no wonder so many riders get messed up.

Used to be, 20 years ago, almost any BMW rider was in full riding gear. Nowadays, with BMWs being a bit more mainstream, I see a LOT more BMW riders wearing no more protection than a typical metric cruiser rider.

Atgatt

After low siding my bicycle at ~20mph I immediately added body armor to my scooter gear and have never gone back. When I bought a Beemer I added armored over pants. I've always been a full face guy, I'm ugly enough as it is and I've seen what I look like after a face plant into asphalt.

Someone from my local club said that at a recent MSF riding course they took the instructor said "Dress for the Ride" rather than the usual "Dress for the Crash". He, (the instructor) said it was more important to dress for comfort than for expecting a crash. Don't have more info as the person who told me this didn't go into more detail but it made for a lively discussion around the lunch table at the club meeting.

I have always been a dress for the ride type, though I have taken to wearing a mesh jacket the last few years along with the gloves and boots and full face that have been wearing since the late 90's in all but the warmest days, when the jacket comes off if its above 90 and I'm in slow moving conditions. Winter is easy just to stay warm means full gear. I admit I'm a throw back to the early days (started riding in 65) but I do encourge new riders to don the gear since they are at the highest risk while learning.

RM