Considering F800S

I am considering replacing my R1150RT with an F800S or ST. The RT is just not well suited to the relatively short day trips I usually make, and is both heavier and more complex than I would like. Curious to hear the pro's and con's of such a swap, if anyone has been there. Here's where I am at:

F800 Pro's
1. Lighter weight
2. Non linked brakes
3. Has ABS
4. No clutch splines to worry about
5. Still capable of 2 up for short rides
6. Big capital cost savings

Con's
1. Unproven reliability
2. Some weird problems with cutting out
3. Weird looking "gas tank"
4. Maybe too light for 2 up
5. Belt drive

Thoughts? There is an '07 S near me with 7k miles for around $6k. I am not familiar with the evolution of the model, are there years that are preferred or to be avoided? Price of all years is much less than the GS's I am also considering, which is a good thing.

That belt drive is very reliable. Will never have to worry about final drive issues.

800 CCs is a good sized engine. 500 CCs used to be considered large enough to do it all.

Paul

I had a r1100RT which I traded for a R1150R which I traded for an 800S 3 years ago last month. I now have 69,000 miles on it. I have don a 1000, 950, 870, 750 and several 600 mile plus days. I find it just as comfortable as the R bikes were. It doesn't have the weather protection as the RT did but that is a plus in the hot weather. I have Givi luggage on it and a taller windshield. I had the belt replaced at 49000 miles and have had 2 battery replacements, the steering head and cush bearings. Also, I just had to replace the rear shock as it was leaking. I may get a 800St in the future or find a used 800S.

I have not ridden the S, but spent a some time on an ST and a 800GS, and all I can say is my next BMW will be an 800. I love the motor, sounds good, lots of torque, revs freely, great fuel economy, lighter than the boxer. I rode 2 up on both, and there is ample power and room, especially on the 800GS.

I think you will be happy with one.

DuaneM said:

Thoughts?

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Hi DuaneM,

As a f800s owner (coming up on 1 year in aug. 5K miles since then) and a forum member at f800riders, I'll try to address your questions here and point you to some more info to help you along the way.

First off...with respect to the "evolution" it appears (from my reading) that 06 and early 07 had the usual new model bugs to iron out... including software updates to address your CON #2 issue. That said, not every 06/07 had issues. There's an excellent "buyers" thread on F800riders that I found very useful when I picked up my F800S demo. You'll see some of your concerns addressed there.

The bike's weight is (for me) a huge plus, especially coming from the CS. It's very user friendly without feeling too lightweight (as the CS did). It does blow around a little bit but crosswinds tend to do that. What's true with this bike is that there's always a good solid bit of torque at hand at any speed/gear (unlike the CS) to steady your course.

The ABS is indeed a plus, but it has garnered some complaints from those who find some of the applications of it (rough terrain setting it off) unsettling. I'm pleased with it perhaps because my old subaru wrx abs would "trigger" in similar rough road/braking conditions. It's not perfect, but I've been grateful to have very solid quick stops that I can control.

I do see many people 2 up on the ST... I'm not so sure if the more sport riding position of the S is as accommodating to that. So, if you're primarily 2 up-ing, I'd think you'd be wise to make sure that S would do it for you, or rather, the ST. The S isn't as "crotch rockety" (seating position) as the looks of it might suggest. In fact, some K100 owners who've ridden my S say it's similar seating... without as much wind protection.

Regarding capital savings... no question... I got a crazy good deal on my S... but I was in the right place at the right time. I'd probably still be on my CS if this opportunity to "upgrade" had not come along as it did.

Unproven reliability for sure is a question mark. I got lucky on my demo w/a warranty until 2012, if I were buying used, I would hem and haw over this a bit... unless I was totally sold on everything else about the bike and had a fair and earnest service department at my disposal.

Aesthetics are aesthetics... I like the looks (incl. faux-tank) and found that it's free space can also be your friend if you want to add on electronics and such. Plus, putting the gas under the seat gives the bike a very planted/low feel.

For me, the belt drive is not a con at all. Near zero maint, good longevity, what's there not to like?

I really enjoy my S as it was the perfect upgrade from the CS, extra CC's, extra gear, way more reliable... it's not perfect, but it's perfect for my use. It's a civil sporty 800. I've done a few things to refine it to my tastes and will probably do a few more over the next couple of years... including trying some different shoes and maybe getting some progressive fork springs.

I hope this is helpful, thanks for asking and keep us informed with your R&D!

-tp

I appreciate the feedback. At this point, I have had the whole range of BMW's (an F, K and now an R), so probably may as well consider the F.

I went to the dealer to check out an R1200R as a possible replacement for my RT, and saw the F800ST. From a rider and passenger geometry, the ST is a great compromise. It is sporty enough with enough forward lean that she can see over my head (in contrast to the RT), but still comfortable for me. I very much liked the light weight and other factors I mentioned.

I have my brother's R1150GS on loan, and enjoy that bike a lot. I wonder what the F800GS is like. A relatively close by dealer has a demo they are selling for around 10k, which I may check out (also, they may be a good place to consign my RT). There are a few S's and ST's for sale used, and the prices seem attractive. The reliability of these concern me a little bit, but I did have good experience with my F650, and it is sort of a relief to not have to deal with things like splines and throttle body sync's.

Comments are appreciated!

I just bought a used S, fitted with aftermarket superbike bars (similar to the ST bars.) I love it so far.

I agree with most of the comments, especially the pros about the belt drive. I've only had my little brother on the back of it (I weigh 165 at 6'1'' and he weighs about 90 lbs) but I found it was easier 2-up than my R1200ST when cruising around town, mostly because of the friendlier powerband.

Hi Duane,

I basically did the opposite of what you are asking and went from an F800ST to an R1200RT. I would agree with all of your pros about the ST. I have read about various ABS issues on earlier models, but I never had any ABS problems to speak of. In fact, I'm confident that it saved my bacon a few times without any drama. As far as the cons, I don't think most of them are really of concern. My bike had just shy of 7,000 miles on it when I traded it in and I never had any reliability issues. Always started, never cut out. Only issue I had was a ruptured coolant hose, which pumped most of the coolant out onto my right leg in 95 degree heat. That was replaced under warranty and the bike never overheated. The side mounted gas filler is actually, IMO, easier to use than a traditional top mounted filler, and as others have said, the belt drive is reliable and low maintenance.

I never ride two-up, so I can't comment on that aspect, but here are two other issues to consider. First, wind protection is almost nonexistent with the OEM windshield. I added an MRA Vario windshield to mine, which significantly cut down on buffeting, but is still no match to the protection offered on an RT. The other issue that I had was the heat. The heat from the engine on very warm days is almost unbearable if you get stuck in slow moving traffic since the heat from engine is channeled up through the fairing and exits right by where your legs contact the frame.

Other than these two issues, I really liked my ST and would probably have kept it along with the RT if finances allowed. Hope this helps with your decision!

DuaneM said:

I have my brother's R1150GS on loan, and enjoy that bike a lot. I wonder what the F800GS is like.

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I echo that! Keep us posted wrt your findings!

-tp

cscatola said:

The other issue that I had was the heat. The heat from the engine on very warm days is almost unbearable if you get stuck in slow moving traffic since the heat from engine is channeled up through the fairing and exits right by where your legs contact the frame.

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Interesting. I've put a little under 31K on my F800ST in a bit under two years, and have never noticed that.

DuaneM said:

I have my brother's R1150GS on loan, and enjoy that bike a lot. I wonder what the F800GS is like. A relatively close by dealer has a demo they are selling for around 10k, which I may check out (also, they may be a good place to consign my RT).

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F800GS is lotsa fun. all the power you need (we always want more, but that's another discussion), easy handling, & smooth performance to well past the legal. heat exists, but much less than any 1st gen K-bike, well controlled with riding pants.

rockbottom said:

Interesting. I've put a little under 31K on my F800ST in a bit under two years, and have never noticed that.

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I suppose everyone has different sensitivity levels to heat, but I've heard several people comment on the ST's heat issues in hot weather. Or maybe I'm just spoiled by the RT's engine layout now

So, barring any last night buyers coming forward, I am putting the RT up at consignment at a dealer this weekend. That will leave a void in the garage and so I will be looking at the F's. It is too bad that the F800GS does not come with cast wheels (or at least tubeless wire wheels), since flatting with a tube tire is not a good thing. The bike seems very nice otherwise. The ST is a huge contender, especially with Voni's review. I will give an update after riding a few of them!

Thanks for all the advice.

DuaneM said:

So, barring any last night buyers coming forward, I am putting the RT up at consignment at a dealer this weekend. That will leave a void in the garage and so I will be looking at the F's. It is too bad that the F800GS does not come with cast wheels (or at least tubeless wire wheels), since flatting with a tube tire is not a good thing. The bike seems very nice otherwise. The ST is a huge contender, especially with Voni's review. I will give an update after riding a few of them!

Thanks for all the advice.

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The 650GS comes with tubeless rims. With a pipe & chip, it can hae almost same power as the 800, in a slightly more road biased package.

I owned a 08 F800S for about a year and really enjoyed the bike.
Traded from a 00 LT. Huge change for all the obvious reasons. Zippy, lightweight,
torquey, reliable machine.

2 up well, it was ok for short jaunts around town, but were comparing apples to oranges here when going from the LT to S.

What I did not enjoy was the ergos, the forward lean was just too much, and I found my wrists were aching after an hour on the bike.

As far as everything else, it is a super bike, but now I have gone to a 08 GT and am loving it more than any beemer or any other brand I have ridden.
Good luck.

A couple of trips to the dealer proved informative...

First off, the F650GS seems like an unsung hero. Nice ergos, nice look to it. Unfortunately these are in short supply, so they did not have a demo. Were I looking for an around town bike, or something for <100 mile trips by myself, this would be a strong contender. It felt a bit smallish, but maybe only because I am coming off an RT.

I really liked its F800GS big brother, but the wire wheels make it a bit of a non-starter. I realize there are worse things than getting a flat on a tube tire, but I have changed enough motorcycle tires manually to know that this is pretty high on the list of bad things. Especially on a Sunday afternoon.

The S/ST's are also nice, and I really liked the riding position of the ST. My wife was a little concerned that it would be a little small for two up work, although I am not convinced. I have done two up on a CBR600, so anything is possible (although I was a lot younger and more limber back then).

All things considered, because all of these are 2010 models, and due to some aggressive pricing on the 09's, I went with an R1200GS. At the end of the day, it was tough to knock the GS off its pedestal. Nice look, nice ergos, handling and performance, one or two up. Were I to compare the MSRP of the bikes, it would be tougher to justify the higher $$ over the ST. But because folks are feeling like the normal GS does not offer enough off road capability, and need to upgrade to the Adventure, there are some nice deals to be had.

DuaneM said:

But because folks are feeling like the normal GS does not offer enough off road capability, and need to upgrade to the Adventure, there are some nice deals to be had.

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i think that people are buying the Adv more because it has the greater fuel range and more bells & whistles than the Std model 12GS, not due to any superior operations off-road. The Adv is clearly LESS capable off-road, due to its greater heft and weight than either the F8GS or the Std version 12GS. Either 1200 model is less of an off-road mount than the F8. When traveling in the dirt neighborhood of the the Dual Sport world, more is most definitely NOT better.

congrats on the new bike. For an "any road, 2-up bike", it is tough to beat.

What's the onboard computer for?

I am seriously getting ready to purchase an 08 F800 ST with all the options on it bags, trunk, tank bag even. But I don't know or can't find any info on what that "on board computer" is or does? Is it just a glorified calculator? They make it sound like the holy grail.

I am a smaller female of a mature age so I was hopping Voni has some insight. I know you love this bike and it seems like the right size for us smaller ladies.

Also nice article about you in the last issue of ON!