Sidecars

Blue Moon is importing Steib sidecars that are built as well as the originals. I would suggest the Steib S500, which is the classic "dirigible nose".

http://bluemooncycle.com/steib.html

Sidecar design is a matter of personal taste, but I think a Ural sidecar would go very well on the cruiser. Visually, the most important detail is matching paint. If the sidecar paint matches the motorcycle exactly, the rig will look good. The Ural body is a descendent of the German WWII sidecars.

Note that with any BMW with the telelever front end, trail can be reduced simply by replacing the lower fork clamp. Both Dauntless and Liberty Sidecar have experience modifying BMW telelevers. The change keeps everything stock except the position of the front wheel contact patch, so you don't have to buy a leading link, wheel, etc.

Also, Dauntless builds a fiberglass versioin of the Ural design. More bucks, of course, but it is well done, has a nice steel frame, and the fiberglass won't rust out.

pmdave

robnye said:

That's very nice. Custom wheels are on my list should I keep the rig.

FIWI, your numbers on putting together a Dauntless / modern BMW combo are a bit off on the low side.

I'll also add that vs the rigs I've seen of yours mine is a series of compromises in comparison. I'll wager than nothing beats a true leading link and block tires, the Dauntless approach is a change in the telelever mounting point which I figure helps (I never tried it without) but still not as nice as your set-up.

In retrospect I really liked the style of the GS Dauntless rig but for less all in money I could have purchased your K1. If I were to do it all over I'm not sure what I'd do.

Click to expand...

I was suggesting a used airhead R100 pulling a used (and reconditioned) Ural sidecar. I guess I'm a fan of the Ural sidecar design. It's roomy, practical, and has a huge trunk in back. I've seen various combos of the oilhead GS/Urals and oilhead GS/EZS. The EZS looks "swoopier" but for dual sport use the Ural is much more practical. I haven't tried it, but I suspect that if someone smacked into the Ural with a Civic or Corolla, the Ural would hardly show any dents, while the car would be seriously dinged. Same for bouncing off trees and rocks.

A new Dauntless "Ural style" fiberglass sidecar attached to a late model (or new) BMW oilhead would jack up the costs considerably.

Let's note that new EZS (Dutch) sidecars are simply too expensive these days, thanks to the shrinking dollar and the realities of producing high quality parts in Europe. Where the EZS Rally kit (including wheels, leading link, etc.) was under $10k a few years ago, it's now knocking on $20k, and that's unfinished, unassembled, and in the crate. Throw in a new 1200GS and labor to put it together, and we're talking more-or-less $45,000.

Here's a shot of the K1/EZS Rally, "Valdez".

pmdave

pmdave said:

I tested a 2WD Ural a couple of years ago. Urals are now imported by IMZ Ural of America. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the appeal of sidecar rigs for driving around in Russian weather also collapsed, so domestic sales just about disappeared. As with Americans, a family on the cheap would rather drive around in a Corolla or Civic.

The formerly government supervised "Ural" plant was privatized and then repurchased by three entrepreneurs, one of whom is the importer in Redmond WA. Starting with the (previous importer) Ural America, various bits and pieces of the Ural were upgraded. For instance the old drippy Russian carbs were removed in the states and replaced with Mikunis, and later other Japanese carbs. IMZ Ural of America continued this constant upgrading, including such modern marvels as a cush-drive Japanese car alternator in lieu of the old troublesome Russian version. The front brakes were upgraded to a disc, with (as I recall) Brembo caliper.

So, as the years have rolled by, the Urals we see here in the USA are considerably more reliable than what we saw ten or twenty years ago. Today, I wouild have no reservations heading off across sthe countryside driving a Ural rig.

Click to expand...

Here are the yearly changes to URAL's from 2006 on..

http://www.uralnw.com/ural/yearlychanges.html

Regards,

Clay
Kimberton,Pa.

(ridden 10k+ miles on my URAL and still go'n)

Got me drooling

I love sidecars and have yet to own one, but it must be in my future. I have my R100/7, I bought new, so I know its every quirk, top to bottom and can work on every inch of it. I know the bike, just not sidecars on it! The Ural has always been attractive and so rough looking unit. I like its looks. Thx all for some really great sidecar reading here and pics too. Randy....

Oh..I forgot..URAL has added an additional back-up feature

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heIQSnokZ8s

Regards,

Clay
Kimberton,Pa.

Thanks everyone you' ve gotten me interested too!
Just how many manufactures are there?
I guess that will start a new debate.
Also is there a sidecar area on the forum?

PaMSP new MSF's 3-Wheeler Curriculum

After someone within this thread mentioned that he had taken a MSF sidecar course..it made me do some research. Currently there are only a few independent organizations and individuals provide sidecar training;ie; USCA, Evergreen..but currently not the Motorcycle Safety Foundation(MSF)...

After several back and forth communications with the Pennsylvania Motorcycle Safety Program(PaMSP)administrator..they have agreed to provide the newest, about-to-be-released MSF's '3BBC' curriculum. I've been advised to look for this new course for 3-wheelers at selected Pa, sites starting next February.

http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/3w_tips.pdf

Regards,

Clay
Kimberton,Pa.

Because the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) aggressively resisted any three wheeler training for many years, the Sidecar Safety Program (SSP) picked up the ball and developed a sidecar course. Eventually the Evergreen Safety Council (ESC) took over the SSP program, figured out how to include trikes, and renamed it the Sidecar/Trike Education Program (S/TEP) The MSF controls the curricula, instructor certification, etc. for two wheeler training, which it markets to state programs. And the MSF directly administers several state programs, including Pennsylvania, New Mexico, New York, California, and (I believe) West Virginia.

The MSF is a "sister" organization to the Motorcycle Industry Council. (MIC) The MIC promotes motorcycling, collects motorcycle statistics, and generates a statistical annual that anyone can purchase for a measly $250/year. Let's note that for as long as the MIC has been around, three-wheeled motorcycles have never appeared in it's statistics.

The ESC administers the S/TEP nationwide, and a number of state rider training programs have started to include the S/TEP in their offerings. Some states, including Washington, subsidize the S/TEP as an alternative to the MSF's BRC curricula. IOW, a novice can take the sidecar/trike course and get a motorcycle license restricted to 3 wheelers.

If someone took an organized sidecar course in the last few years, it is most likely it was the S/TEP. Lots of riders fail to comprehend that most state rider training programs are not part of the MSF, even though they may be offering MSF curricula such as the BRC.

Over the years there have been a few "maverick" sidecarists feeling they have the knowledge to teach sidecars, without getting S/TEP trained, certified or insured. I would advise avoiding those entirely.

The MSF finally got some new marching orders to go to work on three-wheeler training. Although they haven't said, it appears that with BRP now contributing to the MIC and MSF, and with Harley-Davidson now selling trikes, the MIC could no longer argue that three wheelers didn't exist.The first thing the MSF did is send someone up to Seattle to audit an S/TEP.

Although H-D sells sidecars that can be attached to H-D motorcycles, H-D does not market a motorcycle/sidecar combination. The only other sidecar builder of note, IMZ-Ural, is too broke to afford membership in the MIC. So, with no MIC members pushing for sidecar training, it's very likely the MSF "3BRC" will be a trike-only course.

My advice for anyone thinking about learning to drive a hack is to take the S/TEP in the closest state where it is offered. Since the training sites typically furnish sidecar and trike training rigs, you could ride in or fly in, and take the course without having to get a rig first.

pmdave

Just to muddy the water a little, don't forget the Flexit (car leans with the bike) and the Sidewinder (bike leans, car stays vertical. I've driven both and they are not your typical hack rides!

pmdave said:

My advice for anyone thinking about learning to drive a hack is to take the S/TEP in the closest state where it is offered.
Since the training sites typically furnish sidecar and trike training rigs, you could ride in or fly in, and take the course without having to get a rig first.
pmdave

Click to expand...

Even if you never ride/drive a hack again it is sooo much fun.
I couldn't recommend it enough!

The course here in Seattle is three days.
Friday night: Classroom.
Saturday: Classroom/Field
Sunday: Field/Test

Passing the course gets your endorsement w/o a road test at DMV.

Which now leads me to...
I'm going to post a poll in Campground on whether or not we should have a Sidecar forum.
Please vote HERE.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_popper/4571985687/" title="New Front Running Lamp off. by GrafikFeat, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3387/4571985687_383e414aae.jpg" width="500" height="335" alt="New Front Running Lamp off." /></a>

pmdave said:

Note that with any BMW with the telelever front end, trail can be reduced simply by replacing the lower fork clamp. Both Dauntless and Liberty Sidecar have experience modifying BMW telelevers. The change keeps everything stock except the position of the front wheel contact patch, so you don't have to buy a leading link, wheel, etc.

Click to expand...

I have this mod and I have no need for a damper.
I can do highway speeds (70+) easily w/ two fingers.

This pulling a steel Ural on an 'underpowered' R1200C.

I refer to the "leaning" outfits such as the Sidewinder and Flexit as "Free Leaners." That is, the bike is free to lean, and is steered by countersteering, like a bike with a very heavy load in one saddlebag.

Good news, bad news: the good news about free leaners is that they corner much easier than a rigid hack.

The bad news is that if you lose traction, the bike loses balance, and either falls into the sidecar or tips out. The resulting mess is worse than trying to pick up a fallen bike.

I corresponded for a while with a guy in South Africa who drove a Flexit. But to get out of his game camp he had to drive about 20 km of sand, and the Flexit was just about uncontrollable. He had to temporarily attach a strut to make the rig "rigid" just to get out to the paved road.

I've also seen a three-wheeled "free leaner" trike, made by replacing the single front wheel of a bike with a dual wheel setup that tilts. That trike is also steered by countersteering. The bike leans into corners. I have yet to give one a try.

And of course there is the Piaggio MP3, that is a free-leaning trike that can be made rigid for dribbling through traffic or parking.

State licensing departments are going nuts trying to make up rules to cover all the various three-wheelers and the different training and licensing requirements. If you owned a free leaner, I suggest you just take the S/TEP, get your license, and forget to mention anything about **psst. free leaner**.

And, let's note that in California, a sidecar may have up to two wheels, but the operator doesn't need a motorcycle endorsement, just a regular car driver's license. I'm thinking it's time to build a sidecar with three wheels, so the outfit would have a total of 5. Jay Leno, where are you when we need you?


pmdave

Rumor has it that there will be a seminar on "Introduction to Trikes and Sidecars" at the MOA rally in Redmond. This might be Saturday morning following "Coffee with Dave."

pmdave

pmdave said:

Rumor has it that there will be a seminar on "Introduction to Trikes and Sidecars" at the MOA rally in Redmond. This might be Saturday morning following "Coffee with Dave."

pmdave

Click to expand...

I 'heard' that rumor too at Ridewest one morning.

You hacking down Dave?

I'll probably be driving "Sparky" the Spyder to the MOA rally. But I'm seriously considering driving "Blackberry Blue" the R100/Ural rig to the Chief Joseph in a couple of weeks.

pmdave

Cool! Dave's Pony Rides!

With regard to training... I found this link.

We've got a parallel universe goin' here...

http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=45846

It would help if everyone started using one, or the other to post SC related posts ... an ad hoc forum if you will...

Lew,

Did you click on the first link of the Poll thread in #1?

...Or see this one?

SC posts all over... Hence my discussion(s).

Shee-it Grafik... I'm lost.... between sidecarist.com, /2 conversions.yahoo, advrider/hacks, and here, it's too hard to keep all these loose chair-threads organized in my head.... just count me in on a BMWMOA specific HACK Forum "need for".

Don't fret none...

We'll keep the light on for ya...