Anyone know the official protocol for two or more motorcycle cops riding formation at speed? In Indiana, two or more riders of the general riding public are to ride staggered formation (lane A - lane C) and I am 100% in agreement with it. Last night and early this morning (6:30 am, not quite light yet), two motorcycle cops were riding "parade" style @ 70 + mph, in full uniform and obviously on duty! I saw them both times on the dual lane section of US24 between Peru and Wabash and just could not believe it! Maybe I am just paranoid but, a deer, dog, pot hole, road rage, etc. could take them both out in one hit! Anyone have the answer, are each states different?
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Motor Cops Riding Formation??
- Thread starter shropdog
- Start date
MOTOR31
New member
Your best bet is to look up your own state law regarding it. In AZ. it was illegal to ride side by side and there was a specific exception to Police Motors. That may or may not have changed, I really don't know as it no longer applies to me.
I don't ride side by side except with someone who has gone through the same level of training as I did and the only ones I have found who did were other Motors. In my Department's case it was a minimum of 160 hours of in saddle and classroom, almost all in the saddle. The training covered everything from slow speed precision riding to pursuit riding and some dirt biking including dry river and hill climbs with the Police bikes.
FWIW the procedure is to offset back to staggered when ever there is a hazard observed or an intersection to be passed.
Lots of folks have tons of opinions about the system but virtually none ever went through the training for it.
I don't ride side by side except with someone who has gone through the same level of training as I did and the only ones I have found who did were other Motors. In my Department's case it was a minimum of 160 hours of in saddle and classroom, almost all in the saddle. The training covered everything from slow speed precision riding to pursuit riding and some dirt biking including dry river and hill climbs with the Police bikes.
FWIW the procedure is to offset back to staggered when ever there is a hazard observed or an intersection to be passed.
Lots of folks have tons of opinions about the system but virtually none ever went through the training for it.
pglaves
#13338
In theory traffic laws apply equally to them - unless running lights and siren when all bets are off. But in practice they will ride as they well please and unless they run into something they won't be stopped or ticketed in their own jurisdiction. Besides, they learned that watching Chips on TV as young children and most things learned young stick and are hard to change.
OfficerImpersonator
Seattle-area Rounder
My next-door-neighbor commands the motor unit for the King County Sheriff's Dept. (Seattle is the county seat of King County).
Motor officers can ride however and wherever they want - by law and by tradition/practice. They are better riders than you or I, and they are perfectly qualified to ride side-by-side at 70+ mph. They do track days and other training programs all the time in addition to the 5 or 6 hours a day they spend on their bikes doing their jobs. I doubt there are more qualified operators of motorcycles on the roads today.
If you really want to be impressed, watch them work a presidential motorcade. You'll observe all sorts of traffic violations, all done with reason and purpose in mind.
Besides, most traffic regulations exempt law enforcement officers engaged in their duties.
Motor officers can ride however and wherever they want - by law and by tradition/practice. They are better riders than you or I, and they are perfectly qualified to ride side-by-side at 70+ mph. They do track days and other training programs all the time in addition to the 5 or 6 hours a day they spend on their bikes doing their jobs. I doubt there are more qualified operators of motorcycles on the roads today.
If you really want to be impressed, watch them work a presidential motorcade. You'll observe all sorts of traffic violations, all done with reason and purpose in mind.
Besides, most traffic regulations exempt law enforcement officers engaged in their duties.
R
Random
Guest
There's no reason to stay away from ADVrider. There are a lot of nice people over there with lots of experience and wisdom. Just stay away from Jo momma.
widebmw
New member
I know a retired motor officer and he told me of a time when he was riding side by side with another officer and they were going to turn right at the next corner.
He saw a nice looking lady and he kept going stright while his partner on his left turned right.
They picked up their bikes and took off.
He saw a nice looking lady and he kept going stright while his partner on his left turned right.
They picked up their bikes and took off.
M
MAYLETT
Guest
I suspect that no matter how good the training or how coordinated the movement of the two riders becomes, it's still an accident waiting to happen because it shrinks the size of the lane to half or less of its actual width. This reduces both motorcyclists wiggle room in dodging sudden obstacles in the road and scooting away from the less-than-observant cage drivers who do unexpected things.
roostershooter
motorcycle cowboy
Don't like cops huh?
Have seen local city and county Motor Officers ride side by side in all types of traffic situations. As long as they are not behind me or alongside me waving me over...I don't think twice about it.
Most I have tallked with have years of experience as opposed to the weekend warriors who think that's how one group rides.
In the end, it's their choice isn't it? I wouldn't poke the bear myself
Most I have tallked with have years of experience as opposed to the weekend warriors who think that's how one group rides.
In the end, it's their choice isn't it? I wouldn't poke the bear myself
Two years ago I was passed by seven Golden Helmets while driving my van on the 403. Seven G Helmets in formation. One decided to stretch his legs and had a boot touchdown on the pavement. He momentarily lost control of his bike and the others had to scatter. At the time, I wondered about this riding technique and their leather jackets as it looked like rain. Leather loses its strength when wet. A bit further up the road, after it started to rain, all seven had stopped under an underpass to put on their rain suits. That was a large target under the underpass. In the summer, they ride in shirt sleeves; again not a safe practice.
I'm not anti-cop, and although they are better trained than most of us (and do a most impressive motorcycle formation riding display), I believe that they live by their own rules, whether it be on their bikes or their cruisers. (I am still waiting for an answer to an inquiry I made last May when one high speed OPP cruiser had to pass me on the paved cement barrier side shoulder as I was slowing down, expecting to be pulled over for an infraction. Apparently he was on a mission to somewhere and at his speed he had two options; either run me over or pass illegally.) My sons' told me to not pursue the issue as they figured I'd be high on their radar (pun intended).
R
RSPENNACHIO
Guest
and another two cents....
In some states (probably most) lane spliting (or sharing as I really see it) is not permited. That is the case in Michigan. I am not sure how the law is truly defined (how the judge rules on you) or how it is enforced (by LEO). The law seems intentionally ambigious. But for two reasons I don't do this.
One, I feel that riding side by side is in fact lane spliting and breaks the rule so I don't do it. The second reason is saftey. If I or the person next to me needs to swerve for any reason I would perfer to have room to give. And the second second reason is that I once was told that lane spliting in California is legal while we were stuck in gridlock on the freeway. Cycles were riding the dashed line that seperates the lanes. I'm not talking about 10-15 mph either. At least 40-50 mph just a foot away from a sideview mirror. In case you can't picture it we were stopped and they were moving at 50 mph between cars!
In some states (probably most) lane spliting (or sharing as I really see it) is not permited. That is the case in Michigan. I am not sure how the law is truly defined (how the judge rules on you) or how it is enforced (by LEO). The law seems intentionally ambigious. But for two reasons I don't do this.
One, I feel that riding side by side is in fact lane spliting and breaks the rule so I don't do it. The second reason is saftey. If I or the person next to me needs to swerve for any reason I would perfer to have room to give. And the second second reason is that I once was told that lane spliting in California is legal while we were stuck in gridlock on the freeway. Cycles were riding the dashed line that seperates the lanes. I'm not talking about 10-15 mph either. At least 40-50 mph just a foot away from a sideview mirror. In case you can't picture it we were stopped and they were moving at 50 mph between cars!
ANDYVH
New member
Here in Wisconsin, riding side by side on city streets, two-lane highways, multi-lane exressways, freeways is common place all over the state, for motor cops and civilians alike. It is not illegal, and it is commonly tolerated by the police. Quite often, two cycles side by side on a two lane highway, take up more width in their lane than a semi-truck. Each rider oblivious to the dangers he places himself and his fellow rider in. I don't care one bit that many claim "I know how he rides and he knows how I ride." What a line of crap and ego blowing.
Personally, I feel it is a crash waiting to happen, and I will not ride side by side even with my fellow MSF instructors. Yet, here in cheesehead land I see it so often, usually in pairs, fours and even in large packs of 20 some bikes. Mostly not helmetted or in proper gear. And it s a good bet that over 1/2 those riders have marginal riding skills at best based on what I have had for ERC students over 17 years.
I have even had students in my class ask my opinion about their group rides, when the newer riders are chided for not riding in formation side by side! I tell them to find another group to ride with, or ride at the end of the pack. No one, in any riding group, should pressure another rider to ride in a specific manner, unless that manner itself is unsafe.
Personally, I feel it is a crash waiting to happen, and I will not ride side by side even with my fellow MSF instructors. Yet, here in cheesehead land I see it so often, usually in pairs, fours and even in large packs of 20 some bikes. Mostly not helmetted or in proper gear. And it s a good bet that over 1/2 those riders have marginal riding skills at best based on what I have had for ERC students over 17 years.
I have even had students in my class ask my opinion about their group rides, when the newer riders are chided for not riding in formation side by side! I tell them to find another group to ride with, or ride at the end of the pack. No one, in any riding group, should pressure another rider to ride in a specific manner, unless that manner itself is unsafe.
B
BobFV1
Guest
I had a riding buddy several years back who had been a motor sergeant for several years on the local PD. We both had 1150RT's, and after many long rides together, he started riding side-by-side with me sometimes. I asked him why and he said that he thought I was a much better rider than average and that it was safe to do so. We would not do it much or at high speed or anything, but sometimes he would just pull up and ride along next to me and we would chat.
For most cases, using standard spacing is best for the average rider, and in many cases the only legal way to ride.
On a business trip to London last year I was walking near the Savoy hotel and I saw a four-man formation of British morotcops on 1200RT's speed past in the most incredible, tight formation. They were riding fast with almost no spacing, two by two. It was really cool - these guys were good, well-trained. and they were using their skills. It was just a regular day, they were not on escort duty or anything, they were just sort of "showing off" as far as I could tell - it was cool!
For most cases, using standard spacing is best for the average rider, and in many cases the only legal way to ride.
On a business trip to London last year I was walking near the Savoy hotel and I saw a four-man formation of British morotcops on 1200RT's speed past in the most incredible, tight formation. They were riding fast with almost no spacing, two by two. It was really cool - these guys were good, well-trained. and they were using their skills. It was just a regular day, they were not on escort duty or anything, they were just sort of "showing off" as far as I could tell - it was cool!
calr80
New member
I started riding police motors in 1995 here in California. The training was definitely the hardest thing I'd ever done in my life. The slow speed training was excellent, building confidence on most days, crashing and burning on others. The speeds began to increase. As the training continued the road rides began with my instructor, fellow student and eventually the entire motor team. The side-by-side riding was taught from the beginning. I've ridden countless miles with my partners that way. We'll ride in groups of two most days around town. On occasion, there will be hundreds of officers riding that way, sadly, usually in the funeral processions of fellow motors that have fallen. Is it safe, not really. It does build confidence as we try to master the machine that we end up spending so much time with. Does it look cool?.....Uh.... yes! The training road rides were always discussed in advance with the term "ride your own ride" mentioned almost every time. Riding within your abilities was, and is to this day, taught to every new rider.
I finally got off the motors a couple of years ago. With my own bike I find I still ride like I did when I was getting paid to ride. In California lane splitting isn't illegal... until you crash....then it considered "unsafe passing." Funny how many things that we do are outcome based, huh? Anyway, I won't split lanes unless traffic is at a stop. I'll then move up to an open lane, if available, but more likely to avoid getting rear-ended. When the lights turn green, I gun it. If traffic is next to you, it can kill you. I expect every oncoming car to want to turn left in front of me (got me once, prefer it not happen again). When riding off-duty with fellow motor officers we'll often ride side-by-side. We like talking while we ride. Safe, no, but everything we do is risk management to some degree.
A few folks on this thread have expressed their displeasure about the helmets that motor cops traditionally wear (the 3/4 open face) and the short sleeves or other non-ATGAT attire. I believe the term was "ill-clothed and ill-helmeted." Well, it gets hot, what can I say. Sitting astride a motor all day in the sun, while working traffic enforcement, takes it toll. The tall boots, britches and ballistic vests provide a certain level of protection. Perfect, obviously not. This gear did allow me to think about the job at hand (ie, catching that speeder while riding at some ungodly speed to catch up, practicing good officer safety all along the way). Frankly the last thing we need is to be distracted by a $%#@load of riding gear that would have me thinking about how freaking uncomfortable I am.
My two cents,
Calr80
r1150r
I finally got off the motors a couple of years ago. With my own bike I find I still ride like I did when I was getting paid to ride. In California lane splitting isn't illegal... until you crash....then it considered "unsafe passing." Funny how many things that we do are outcome based, huh? Anyway, I won't split lanes unless traffic is at a stop. I'll then move up to an open lane, if available, but more likely to avoid getting rear-ended. When the lights turn green, I gun it. If traffic is next to you, it can kill you. I expect every oncoming car to want to turn left in front of me (got me once, prefer it not happen again). When riding off-duty with fellow motor officers we'll often ride side-by-side. We like talking while we ride. Safe, no, but everything we do is risk management to some degree.
A few folks on this thread have expressed their displeasure about the helmets that motor cops traditionally wear (the 3/4 open face) and the short sleeves or other non-ATGAT attire. I believe the term was "ill-clothed and ill-helmeted." Well, it gets hot, what can I say. Sitting astride a motor all day in the sun, while working traffic enforcement, takes it toll. The tall boots, britches and ballistic vests provide a certain level of protection. Perfect, obviously not. This gear did allow me to think about the job at hand (ie, catching that speeder while riding at some ungodly speed to catch up, practicing good officer safety all along the way). Frankly the last thing we need is to be distracted by a $%#@load of riding gear that would have me thinking about how freaking uncomfortable I am.
My two cents,
Calr80
r1150r
At last! Someone else who can relate to my SoCal-bred reservations about ATGATT. I grew up there and rode 365 days a year - owned no car. Did everything on two wheels. My last job there was a commute from Castaic to Compton. While there is no question of the value of ATGATT after a crash, I always felt alertness diminishes with discomfort, and therefore ATGATT can detract from safety, especially in the heat. Your mind is your number one safety device.
I took an advanced riding class put on by, I think they were called Municipal Motor Officers of Southern Calfornia. I hope they still have that. Nice, hard core, no BS, real world based stuff from people who ride for a living - and show you how to remain among the living.
jstrube
John.
Don't forget though, that covering the skin in the sun & heat keeps you cooler than exposing it... Construction & farm workers all know this...
We had a motor officer go down recently when a little old lady pulled over into his lane going 15 MPH, when he was going faster... He had just started using the flip up helmets, had it maybe a week... Guess where all the damage was on the helmet? Yep, the chin bar... Definitely saved his face.
We had a motor officer go down recently when a little old lady pulled over into his lane going 15 MPH, when he was going faster... He had just started using the flip up helmets, had it maybe a week... Guess where all the damage was on the helmet? Yep, the chin bar... Definitely saved his face.
lmo1131
New member
Earlier this spring I was heading north on US101 between Santa Maria, California and my home in Pismo Beach. I noticed a bunch of headlights growing larger in my bar-end mirror. It vibrates a bit so I couldn't tell exactly what I was seeing.
I usually cruise my old /5 at around 70-75, but these lights were gaining on me pretty quickly. In this part of California it isn't unusual for the 1%ers to run in large groups, so I was expecting to be passed by an "outlaw" club.
Imagine my surprise when the outlaw club turned into a "THE Law Club". 16 CHP motors, two-abreast, maybe twenty feet between ranks, and they weren't wasting any time getting to where they were headed. They probably passed me with a good twenty mph greater speed. It was really impressive to see them move back over into the #2 lane, as a block when they got by me; might as well have been a squadron of F16s.
Notice the clearance between the back tire of the front center bike, and the front tire of the trailing officer... it isn't front-to-back, it's side-to-side!
[closed-course]
I usually cruise my old /5 at around 70-75, but these lights were gaining on me pretty quickly. In this part of California it isn't unusual for the 1%ers to run in large groups, so I was expecting to be passed by an "outlaw" club.
Imagine my surprise when the outlaw club turned into a "THE Law Club". 16 CHP motors, two-abreast, maybe twenty feet between ranks, and they weren't wasting any time getting to where they were headed. They probably passed me with a good twenty mph greater speed. It was really impressive to see them move back over into the #2 lane, as a block when they got by me; might as well have been a squadron of F16s.
Notice the clearance between the back tire of the front center bike, and the front tire of the trailing officer... it isn't front-to-back, it's side-to-side!
[closed-course]
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