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Thread: Roundel NOT a Propeller

  1. #31
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by DarrylRi View Post
    Prefect.
    +1
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  2. #32
    althotos
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    Quote Originally Posted by robsmoto View Post
    So, the BMW roundel is representative of a spinning propeller in the colors of the Bavarian flag?
    And, because BMW was an airplane engine manufacturer before and during WWI it was how the "propeller" story was born. As a condition of the Treaty of Versailles they were banned from making aircraft engines. It wasn't until the mid-20s that they turned to motorcycle and auto manufacturing.

  3. #33
    Registered User ojhengen's Avatar
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    Roundel is a propeller

    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    The official BMW booklet I received by mail after buying a new BMW 328 clearly states that the Roundel is a propeller against the blue Bavarian sky; dating from the days BMW built aircraft engines. Ergo, this question should be put to rest, once and for all.

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  4. #34
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ojhengen View Post
    The official BMW booklet I received by mail after buying a new BMW 328 clearly states that the Roundel is a propeller against the blue Bavarian sky
    What do Bimmer makers know!!
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  5. #35
    Cannonball Rider #52 darrylri's Avatar
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    The roundel IS NOT a propeller

    Quote Originally Posted by ojhengen View Post
    The official BMW booklet I received by mail after buying a new BMW 328 clearly states that the Roundel is a propeller against the blue Bavarian sky; dating from the days BMW built aircraft engines. Ergo, this question should be put to rest, once and for all.

    Orv Hengen
    2007 R1200RT - 41K and rising
    2010 328 Coupe
    Marketing claptrap, just as the origination of the propeller idea was. The BMW Group Archives says differently. Read the whole thread above, and then read this article from the Group Archives:

    http://www.bmw.com/generic/com_04/en..._2005_01_E.pdf

    The first mention of the propeller is from a 1929 marketing brochure; the company, and the logo, were founded in 1918.
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  6. #36
    Registered User f14rio's Avatar
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    roundel

    From BMW:
    The BMW roundel, one of the worldÔÇÖs most recognized and revered commercial symbols, celebrates its 90th anniversary this month.
    In July 1917 Franz Josef Popp registered the name Bayerische Motoren Werke, thus distancing the new company from the Rapp Motorenwerke. This was a necessary move if the new company was to find new clients and prosper. The name was registered but as yet there was no new logo...
    It was on 5 October 1917 that the BMW trademark was registered with the Imperial Trade Mark Roll under No. 221388. It featured the circular design of the Rapp logo but with the letters BMW at the top of the outer ring. The inner featured quadrants in the Bavarian Free State colors of blue and white ÔÇô but in the opposed order ÔÇô as it was illegal to use national symbols in a commercial trademark.
    The design was not in any way connected with aircraft engines or propellers. The idea that the blue and white had anything to do with spinning propellers comes from a 1929 advertisement, which featured aircraft with the image of the Roundel in the rotating propellers. This advertisement came at the beginning of the Great Depression, which coincided with BMW acquiring the license to build Pratt & Whitney radial aircraft engines. The advertising department used the roundel and BMW heritage in an attempt to increase sales of the new radial motors.
    The idea of the spinning propellers was given greater credence in an article by Wilhelm Farrenkopf in a BMW journal of 1942. This also featured an image of an aircraft with a spinning roundel. These were powerful images and the legend of the spinning propeller was born.




    The logo was registered on 5 October but it was in limited use prior to this date. On 1 October 1917 Franz Josef Popp was given a certificate confirming his appointment as General Manager and it was adorned with the now familiar BMW roundel.
    The basic structure of the roundel has remained the same over 90 years but there have been subtle changes. In the original design the lettering and outline was in gold, but by the time the first BMW motorcycle ÔÇô the R 32 ÔÇô was released in 1923 it had changed slightly. The letters were still in gold but the font was bolder and letters closer together. This was the style that was submitted to the German Register of Trade Marks in 1933, and the international register of trademarks in 1934. This did not however stop various versions being used.
    One of the early BMW advertisements using the logo was in 1918 with the ÔÇÿFalling RoundelsÔÇÖ, this was a positioning advertisement that was designed to establish the brand and give an indication to its current and future products.
    Subsequent advertisements, posters and even cars and motorcycles also featured many styles of roundel. The proportions changed, the shade of blue used, and the lettering could be in gold, white or silver with serif or sans-serif fonts in different sizes. There appears to be no reason for this variance except for product designers and marketing and communication staff using personal choice depending on application.
    Through the 1950s there was a more concerted effort to standardize the roundel. The use of white lettering was now standard and when used on cars and motorcycles it was silver. By the 1960s the serif font was replaced by sans-serif, and this was used on all motorcycles by 1966.
    There was a subsequent change to a slightly bolder font and this has remained as the standard roundel. There was flirtation with a ÔÇÿMotorsport RoundelÔÇÖ in the early 1970s and ÔÇÿ80s which had the standard logo surrounded by the BMW Motorsport colors. In 1997 BMW moved to having the roundel depicted in 3-D when used in the printed form. This gives the Roundel a new bolder and dynamic look.
    The BMW roundel is now ranked in the top ten of the worldÔÇÖs most recognized commercial logos and is an iconic symbol in its own right. The original design, in its simplicity and symbolism has stood the test of time.
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  7. #37
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ojhengen View Post
    The official BMW booklet I received by mail after buying a new BMW 328 clearly states that the Roundel is a propeller against the blue Bavarian sky; dating from the days BMW built aircraft engines. Ergo, this question should be put to rest, once and for all.

    Orv Hengen
    2007 R1200RT - 41K and rising
    2010 328 Coupe
    You (I, and about 20,000 others) wish.

    Much like an oil thread, I'm afraid. And don't get that started now either!
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  8. #38
    Registered User widebmw's Avatar
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    I understand that is is not a propeller, but it could be a screw.

  9. #39
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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  10. #40
    535IS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarbear View Post
    He flew with pre BMW Tech and wore the Roundell on his lapel! The 3 Winged wonder and its engine were our Genesis. Poor Snoopy had to play fetch with this guy. Randy
    I found the quote from which you came up with this hilarious conclusion:

    Anyone who knows anything about "the legendary Fokker Triplane of 1917" knows that it was powered by an air-cooled Oberursel rotary, not a liquid-cooled BMW inline six.

    It's unlikely von Richthofen ever flew behind a BMW engine, since he flew various Albatros models and the Fokker DR-I, none of which had BMW engines. The only type he flew that was ever powered by a BMW engine was a Fokker D-VII, but that was a prototype powered by a Mercedes. He was killed before the D-VII with BMW power reached any combat units. Lending the thinnest shred of credibility to the above, ace Ernst Udet, who led Jasta 11 after von Richthofen's death did praise the BMW-powered D-VII ...

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALIENHITCHHIKER View Post
    I've heard some suggest that the blau und weiss color scheme were taken from the Bavarian flag,
    That's Blau mit Weiss. You're welcome.

  12. #42
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  13. #43
    workin' them angels indycar's Avatar
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    Back in the days of 3.5 inch floppy disks, I had a driver interactive program/game from BMW I got through BMWCCA somehow. At any rate, in the intro, the program featured an airplane propeller spinning, eventually becoming the BMW Roundel on the title page.

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  14. #44
    Mars needs women! 35634's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 535is View Post

    Anyone who knows anything about "the legendary Fokker Triplane of 1917" knows that it was powered by [I]an air-cooled Oberursel rotary
    I
    Interestingly, the Oberusel was a copy of the French Le Rh??ne Rotary Engine, sometimes captured engines were used due to superior materials and the HP ratings of the German Oberusels tended to be somewhat fictional. BMW was later licensed by Pratt & Whitney to produce their radial engine, used in the JU-52 & other WW2 aircraft.
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  15. #45
    Cannonball Rider #52 darrylri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jfcaramagno View Post
    That's Blau mit Weiss. You're welcome.
    Actually, the Bavarians always call it weiss mit blau or just weiss-blau. For whatever reason, the white always comes first. The colors and the lozenge flag are supposed to represent the fluffy white clouds in the blue Bavarian sky...

    Quote Originally Posted by wezul View Post
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