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Thread: Buell beats Ducati, BMW

  1. #1
    Bob
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    Buell beats Ducati, BMW

    No matter how you look at it, the news still isn't good.

    http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news...009/#more-7439

  2. #2
    I Used to Be Someone sheridesabeemer's Avatar
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  3. #3
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    WOW!

    Is there a story with that Gail?
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  4. #4
    motorcycle cowboy Tennessean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheRidesABeemer View Post
    Regardless of what you ride, that is a sad sight.
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  5. #5
    Registered User texanrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2BikeMike View Post
    Regardless of what you ride, that is a sad sight.
    Agreed. Why would anybody do that?
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  6. #6
    XTrooper
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    The title of that article is some of the most biased BS I've seen in a long time. The fact is, if H-D has one recall for one particular problem, it is going to involve one hell of a lot more units than the other brands simply because they manufacture and sell one hell of a lot more units per model year.

    This is besides the fact a safety recall(s) and "reliability" don't necessarily have a thing to do with each other.

  7. #7
    TANDEMGEEK
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    Quote Originally Posted by henzilla View Post
    Is there a story with that?
    Having parsed through a lot of postings made when this photo began to circulate, the most plausible seems to be that this is an older photo of '07 model test mules and/or pre-production bikes awaiting pick-up by the dismantler / recycler. It's merely a part of the motor vehicle production business that most manufacturers don't highlight or call attention to.

    Here's an interesting piece on the BMW Blog regarding BMW vehicle mules that includes some video of a mule graveyard: http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/12/07/vi...les-graveyard/
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 12-29-2009 at 10:00 PM.

  8. #8
    TANDEMGEEK
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTrooper View Post
    The title of that article is some of the most biased BS I've seen in a long time. The fact is, if H-D has one recall for one particular problem, it is going to involve one hell of a lot more units than the other brands simply because they manufacture and sell one hell of a lot more units per model year.
    HD production in '08 was 300k units so if 110k units were affected by the recall you're looking at 36% of the units sold. The Buell numbers were a bit better at 28% of total units produced.

    Compare that to BMW with 100k units produced in '08 and 2k K-bike recalls + an unspecified number of GS models. Admittedly, the GS is BMW's most popular bike with 22k units produced + another 12k GSA models, so the total number of affected BMWs could be on par or higher than HD if all of the GS & GSA bikes were impacted. I suspect that's not the case just looking back at other recalls where the number of affected bikes was in the hundreds to just over 1k.

    Quote Originally Posted by XTrooper View Post
    This is besides the fact a safety recall(s) and "reliability" don't necessarily have a thing to do with each other.
    Recalls ARE a measure of quality & reliability, like it or not. Moreover, I suspect the warranty claims and other reliability metrics aren't that far afield from the recalls. Again, the article makes the point that of the 21 recalls in 2009 (affected 2008 and earlier bikes), HD, Ducati and BMW have disproportionately higher numbers of recalls and/or affected bikes to the Japanese benchmark of a combined 2 recalls (one for Kawasaki & 1 for Yamaha) affected a grand total of 439 units, remembering that the four Japanese bike manufacturers produced just under 500k units in 2008.
    Last edited by TandemGeek; 12-29-2009 at 11:43 PM.

  9. #9
    criminaldesign
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    they're machines and this stuff happens.

    maybe a bit more quality control is in order. But everything is always a work in progress and nothing can be perfect.

  10. #10
    Registered User 88bmwjeff's Avatar
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    IMO, BMW is an industry leader with regards to innovation. Unfortunately, being the first to introduce something to market can also mean higher recalls as the bugs are worked out. So, one should look at what is being recalled. I haven't, so I really can't really comment on specifics.
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  11. #11
    Bob
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    I wasn't trying to kick Buell when they were down (already pronounced dead, in fact). The more interesting issue is the Beemer recall rate; quite high, in my book. Claiming 'innovation' as a defence is weak, when the Japanese manage to be innovative with minimal recalls at the same time.

  12. #12
    Still plays with trains. tinytrains's Avatar
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    Also keep in mind that recalls only account for problems the manufacture has decided to take responsibility for, or were forced to by the Feds. So by this standard, non-responsive manufacturers can score better.
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  13. #13
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    YMMV

    When the article showed up in my RSS feeds I read it and thought it a wonderful example of internet tabloid yellow journalism at its best. I follow A&R on a daily basis. I agree that the resulting information from a product recall may be useful as one of the components to gage products reliability. For my money I think they should issue a recall on the article.

    FWIW

    Why does H-D/Buell get the top spot and BMW languishes back in third, excuse me, second runner up?

    2019 K GT/S were recalled for a programming problem. All of those bikes have the same flaw.

    H-D i is recalling 111,569 bikes of various models on the H-D side of their recall. Looking at the raw numbers H-D without any help form the Buell side beats BMW hands down. But look at what the recall is for and the conditions of concern.

    The recall concern is the possibility of the failure of a tank weld due to “possible” flexing in the event of a head on collision. You can go to all the trouble of having a head on collision and not duplicate the flexing thus failing to have the problem that is the root of the recall.

    Both companies should and did issue recalls. My point in this glib side bar is not all recalls are created equal.

    Which numbers are you using and why is Yamaha getting off so easily?

    When I go out to the nhtsa.dot.gov defect data base and search 2009 Yamahas they issued a recall for the 2009 model of FJR 1300s that covered 9325 bikes for problems with the ignition switch. In 2009 this was a current model on the show room floors for much of the year. They recalled roughly as many of a single model, the FJR, in this recall as BMW will sell of all models in 2009.

    Both companies should and did recall bikes. Each was flawed. Which was less reliable as a result and deserving of top honors in the A&R Rubbies?


    I think, my personal purposefully wondering view, is recalls can give an indication of reliability if you take the time to really look at them. The BMW K recall is an example of that. The programming was flawed and all bikes with that programming are subject to some level of problem. Unless head on crashes are part of your normal riding routine the H-D recall deals with a potentially very serious problem but as I read it I could ride one of the models recalled without the recall problem until I die. As long as it wasn’t in a head on crash, and maybe even then if I didn’t have the right kind of head on collision. What does the H-D recall have to do with the reliability of the bike for the years I would ride it; absolutely nothing.



    I give 2 thumbs down to this article. One for the author and the second for A&R publishing it.



    I give three thumbs up for the topic , its importance and the discussion we are having.

    YMMV
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  14. #14
    What, me worry? GILLY's Avatar
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    Of course Buell isn't totally dead.
    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/22/s...-buell-racing/
    Just thought I'd throw that out there. I don't care about Buell as a company, but what HD did to Erik Buell was just wrong. Glad he is getting to stay in the game.
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  15. #15
    Rally Rat
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    Totally meaningless article. Recalls are not associated with reliability. They are associated with safety issues. You could argue recalls are an indication of quality control. Not reliability.

    I had my Ducati ST3 recalled in 2005 to reroute the radiator overflow hose. To date, there's never been a bike break down due to this hose. The problem was during service, mechanics weren't properly securing the hose in its bracket. Potential safety....if the hose makes contact with the exhaust pipe.

    When recalls start to includes BMW rear main bearing seal failures or rear drives, then it will reflect reliability.

    In the auto industry, Toyota was hit hard this year with a recall on floor mats getting caught under the gas pedal. Nobody would argue this as a reliability issue. The cars worked all the way to the crash.

    What is more interesting is the comment below the article. The readers clearly understand the difference between a safety recall and reliability.
    Last edited by kenk; 01-06-2010 at 01:26 PM.

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