Radar Detector

A radar detector is just one tool.

Your brain is the other.

I use a Valentine 1 on longer trips and use my brain around here.

Also, if you ride in VA and some other states, carry an old no good detector with you. I was pulled over and instead of a ticket, the cop said he'd confiscate the detector, my choice. I had an old Passport that I gave him. One of my favorite stories....(quote)

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Escort Refurb

Escort is selling 8500 Refurbs for a good price from their trade in deal. Great detector for a good price. Check their website.

Honestly and with all due respect to the manufacturers and law enforcement officials, if you are breaking the law you get what you get.
And I'm OK with that.
And my forum "title" indicates same.
It's from "Cool Hand Luke" if you haven't already figured it out.

radars

Thanks for all the replies. I got along without one all these years - (46 years of riding) Guess I don't need one . If you speed, carry your billfold. But sometimes it's just plain fun to feel excessive wind on one's body. ''Ride Safely........

I'll add on to what Dave S said.. the best radar (laser) detector IMHO is your brain.

I won't run a radar detector. I found they slow me down (true story - driving from NJ to Bob'sBMW in MD with a friend in my M-Coupe. Used his VI on the way down, told him to ditch it on the way back, it was annoying me.. took about 25 minutes LESS on the way back, and I really never went more than 10+.)

So - using the mind/brain:

1. Never be the fastest vehicle out there. Let some dolt with out-of-state plates driving a red Corvette 100mph in the fast lane take the hit. Cop is busy with him, you get a pass. Of course this won't work if you're the dolt - so don't do 100 out of state when driving a red Corvette.

2. Watch brake lights ahead. You're doing this anyway right? Pops in the Crown Vic with all the hats on the rear shelf is gonna hit his brakes when he sees the LEO in the woods, he can't NOT hit them. It's habit. Even if he's doing -10. If you see brake lights - SLOW DOWN (duh!).. there is a reason (if not a cop, it may be Bambi in the woods - in any case SLOW DOWN.)

3. Use common sense. If it looks like a good spot for a speed trap, slow down. If you've heard of a speed trap, slow down. That downhill long section with the woods at the bottom - what'cha wanna bet an LEO is hiding in the woods?

4. Don't be obvious and oblivious. If you're running on a Huyabuzayammi sports bike, wearing neon-green gear - you sorta stand out. Doing wheelies down the highway at 100 will be noticed. Sorta goes along with #1 - you don't want to attract attention. If you are wearing neon-green gear, you're a safe rider, and probably aren't doing 100mph except on a closed course.

5. Slow down in town. If you're running on some of the wonderful back roads in WV and VA - when you come to a town with 25MPH marked - slow down (I usually slow to about 30mph.) Small towns like to catch speeders. They don't like people running over their kids. So show some respect. You can have fun between the towns, and sometimes there are things to see as you go through at a reasonable speed.

6. Show respect. If - despite all the above, you come roaring down a road and suddenly spot an LEO that you didn't know was there - HIT THE BRAKES HARD, so the bike noticeably dives a bit and slows down. He's already got'ya on the speeding, playing nonchalant ain't gonna work. This one surprised me - it was told to our local club by a prosecutor for about most of the local towns in our area, and the LEO's told him. That shows the LEO (a) you're awake (b) you respect him (c) you know you did something wrong. Funny one - but according to LEO's I've asked - they agree. Show respect.

7. +10 is pretty safe. +7.5 is real safe. This is called being reasonable in breaking the law (which I don't get all upset about since it isn't MORALLY wrong to speed, despite what prosecutors and LEOs sometimes express. There is no commandment "Thou shalt not speed..") Anyway - how fast do you gotta go? Almost any police department has an unwritten policy of not writing tickets for less than 10 over - just because it's a hassle.. too many people decide to fight them. The ideal ticket is one for +11 over, and it's paid by check, and the cop/prosecutor never have to come into the courtroom.

OK - the rest of the story: Using the above techniques I managed to go from 1971 to 2009 without a ticket. That's 38 years. Got one about a week ago - radar on a pole in Washington DC, 3 lane interstate (I695) - the pretty picture claimed I was doing 56 in a 40. Mailed to me. Nothing above would have helped (except local knowledge - WDC has collected $30,000,000 so far this year off their speed traps.. it's right on their website.) No points since it's automated. Thing is - a radar detector likely wouldn't have helped a lot since they made a point of the radar using a VERY narrow beam (less than 15 degrees), and WDC is a no-detector zone, and despite what Valentine sez - people have been caught using their Valentine in VA..

And - as Greenwald said - if you're pulled over with a detector in sight - it's your unhappy day. No talking is gonna get you out of the ticket.

Rubber side down eh?

GPS enabled detectors like the newest Escorts have radar/redlight databases that are updated monthly. You can also geotag your own locations into them. Practically every cop car in the country has/or soon will have moving radar. It's too easy to get tagged, far easier than it was even five years ago. I need counter measures.

Keeping my eyes on the road is gonna save my butt. Keeping my eyes on the speedo is only gonna (potentially) save me some money.

1. Never be the fastest vehicle out there.
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Well, that pretty much ends your case for me!

deilenberger said:

Using the above techniques I managed to go from 1971 to 2009 without a ticket. That's 38 years. ......

Click to expand...

+1 Great post.

Since I started riding again about 5 years ago) I've only gotten one speeding ticket - although I've had more than one LEO shake his finger at me as I passed and one flashed his lights.

I usually wait for a scout to go by at a rate of speed I like, and then follow an appropriate distance behind. If the scout gets radared, I hit the brakes. This technique has worked well for me over the years, and I've saved dozens of tickets. I use the Escort 8500, but may get a Valentine as well.

But with so much laser out there now, if you're into ECM, you have to consider whether to install a jammer, and the problem is that you can't easily move them from vehicle to vehicle. Here's a link to a recent discussion of them on the Rennlist:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/993-forum/509738-any-993-owners-have-a-laser-jammer.html

rinty said:

I usually wait for a scout to go by at a rate of speed I like, and then follow an appropriate distance behind. If the scout gets radared, I hit the brakes. This technique has worked well for me over the years, and I've saved dozens of tickets. I use the Escort 8500, but may get a Valentine as well.

But with so much laser out there now, if you're into ECM, you have to consider whether to install a jammer, and the problem is that you can't easily move them from vehicle to vehicle. Here's a link to a recent discussion of them on the Rennlist:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/993-forum/509738-any-993-owners-have-a-laser-jammer.html

Click to expand...

We call them "rabbits". When we rode separate bikes, we'd hold up two fingers like a peace sign and wiggle the fingers and point to the rabbit. That meant "let's follow the rabbit and let him/her take the ticket".

I'd give them a quarter mile of space and see what happened.

That's we call them up here, as well, Dave.

In August, I had a good one on an early morning run through the Roger's Pass in B.C.; a guy in a Lexus running at 150 (km/hr). I was a few hundred yards back, and there was a Civic in between, who kept trying to pass for some reason. But he just didn't have the ponies for the long uphills; hilarious.

I usually avoid the Trans Canada in B.C. in the summer, but that was a fun run.

RoboRider said:

So explain this:

On the Dragon, the TN HP will sit in a particular turnout blasting radar, and another THP will pull guys over and write them up. I get about a TWO FULL HAIRPIN notice when these guys are sitting there.

I agree detectors aren't what they used to be, but don't even tell me they don't give you enough alert in specific situations.

Also, if you ride in VA and some other states, carry an old no good detector with you. I was pulled over and instead of a ticket, the cop said he'd confiscate the detector, my choice. I had an old Passport that I gave him. One of my favorite stories....

Click to expand...

Like I said in my last post, the well-trained and certified officer knows exactly where his/her radar signal is going and when it's going to be detected.

Running radar is as much about getting traffic to slow down as issuing tickets.

And you and I both know how hard it is to operate that R1200RT slowly!

7. +10 is pretty safe. +7.5 is real safe. This is called being reasonable in breaking the law (which I don't get all upset about since it isn't MORALLY wrong to speed, despite what prosecutors and LEOs sometimes express. There is no commandment "Thou shalt not speed..") Anyway - how fast do you gotta go? Almost any police department has an unwritten policy of not writing tickets for less than 10 over - just because it's a hassle.. too many people decide to fight them. The ideal ticket is one for +11 over, and it's paid by check, and the cop/prosecutor never have to come into the courtroom.

OK Deilenberger - you got me - I can barely type, I'm chuckling so hard. You made my morning!

Seriously, about 90% of what you wrote is an excellent perspective on this topic (and it's only a topic - no arguing needs to occur here - just friendly banter).

But the 'logic' of "it's OK to break the laws that aren't morally wrong" takes rationalization to a stratospheric level.

Over my career, I interacted with about 5,000 new people every year, and have kept a sort of mental glossary of rationalizations for illegal behavior. But yours is absolutely precious, and instantly breaks into the TOP FIVE.

"Have a nice day, and drive safely now."

Greenwald said:

Running radar is as much about getting traffic to slow down as issuing tickets.

Click to expand...

Must be. Back when I used a detector I once had it light up like a christmas tree saying there were many signal sources in front of me. Turned out there *lots* of CHP helping to guide a very large oversize load (maybe 1 1/2 lanes wide) on a very straight section of CA 46 only two lanes wide. All of them had their radar on and active. It was obvious that the goal was to get attention, not to enforce traffic laws. Radar, modulating headlamps, flashing lights, etc., were all in use. Everything but sirens.

Greenwald said:

OK Deilenberger - you got me - I can barely type, I'm chuckling so hard. You made my morning!

Seriously, about 90% of what you wrote is an excellent perspective on this topic (and it's only a topic - no arguing needs to occur here - just friendly banter).

But the 'logic' of "it's OK to break the laws that aren't morally wrong" takes rationalization to a stratospheric level.

Over my career, I interacted with about 5,000 new people every year, and have kept a sort of mental glossary of rationalizations for illegal behavior. But yours is absolutely precious, and instantly breaks into the TOP FIVE.

"Have a nice day, and drive safely now."

Click to expand...

Glad you enjoyed it.

The reason I mentioned that is some people do seem to think that it's morally wrong to speed.. that some greater being (who we can't discuss here) will frown on speeding. I suspect the greater being really couldn't care less. It's sorta get down off the high horse on speeding.

If you wanna speed - and do it safely - it's no skin off my nose. It's been shown time and time again - speed by itself isn't unsafe. Things like speeds not safe for the situation (too fast OR as shown by Eddie James tragic accident - too slow - or too great a difference in speed) are when speed becomes unsafe. Too fast a speed by itself isn't "unsafe" despite what the insurance companies and government revenuers* might say.

One thing I'd be interested in is your comments on the "respect" issue. This really opened some eyes at a club meeting a few years ago. The chap talking to us was a motorcyclist, and also the local prosecutor for about 10 different towns, handling LOTS of speeding ticket cases. He was at the meeting to discuss how to avoid getting them, and then how to minimize the impact of getting one. Very interesting topic and discussion.

* = I normally wouldn't use that phrase - but the pole-radar ticket a few weeks ago in WDC where it's VERY obvious if you visit their website they look at it as a means to help generate revenue made it rather obvious to me. Sorta like the red light cameras that were installed many places in the US with a much shortened yellow light cycle. Done for revenue, not safety (accident rates went UP - with being tailended the biggest increase as people slammed on their brakes to avoid being caught in the short yellow cycle. Being tailended on a bike is no fun, BTDT and don't wanna do it again.)

FWIW - the WDC website had absolutely nothing on how the stationary/unmanned/robot radar reduced accidents.. just how it increased revenue. Sorta telling eh?

Rabbit, Run

KBasa said:

We call them "rabbits". When we rode separate bikes, we'd hold up two fingers like a peace sign and wiggle the fingers and point to the rabbit. That meant "let's follow the rabbit and let him/her take the ticket".

I'd give them a quarter mile of space and see what happened.

Click to expand...

OMG, I get it now!

Dear John Updike . . . . . .

RoboRider said:

So explain this:

On the Dragon, the TN HP will sit in a particular turnout blasting radar, and another THP will pull guys over and write them up. I get about a TWO FULL HAIRPIN notice when these guys are sitting there.

I agree detectors aren't what they used to be, but don't even tell me they don't give you enough alert in specific situations.

Also, if you ride in VA and some other states, carry an old no good detector with you. I was pulled over and instead of a ticket, the cop said he'd confiscate the detector, my choice. I had an old Passport that I gave him. One of my favorite stories....

Click to expand...

+1 one on what Robo says. I have used a Bell Professional 65 here in Missouri and I can't tell you the amount of times this thing has saved my bacon. Like what he was saying, they would be running the radar a long way off and I would pick them up from considerable distance, most times before I ever caught site of the car, slowed down and they were were. I used to average a couple of tickets a year, since I had the Bell I have never have one. Not to say that I can't get hit with laser or plane and now that I have posted this probably will, but I can safely say it has saved my bacon....many more times that once.

Ron

deilenberger said:

Glad you enjoyed it.

The reason I mentioned that is some people do seem to think that it's morally wrong to speed.. that some greater being (who we can't discuss here) will frown on speeding. I suspect the greater being really couldn't care less. It's sorta get down off the high horse on speeding.

If you wanna speed - and do it safely - it's no skin off my nose. It's been shown time and time again - speed by itself isn't unsafe. Things like speeds not safe for the situation (too fast OR as shown by Eddie James tragic accident - too slow - or too great a difference in speed) are when speed becomes unsafe. Too fast a speed by itself isn't "unsafe" despite what the insurance companies and government revenuers* might say.

One thing I'd be interested in is your comments on the "respect" issue. This really opened some eyes at a club meeting a few years ago. The chap talking to us was a motorcyclist, and also the local prosecutor for about 10 different towns, handling LOTS of speeding ticket cases. He was at the meeting to discuss how to avoid getting them, and then how to minimize the impact of getting one. Very interesting topic and discussion.

* = I normally wouldn't use that phrase - but the pole-radar ticket a few weeks ago in WDC where it's VERY obvious if you visit their website they look at it as a means to help generate revenue made it rather obvious to me. Sorta like the red light cameras that were installed many places in the US with a much shortened yellow light cycle. Done for revenue, not safety (accident rates went UP - with being tailended the biggest increase as people slammed on their brakes to avoid being caught in the short yellow cycle. Being tailended on a bike is no fun, BTDT and don't wanna do it again.)

FWIW - the WDC website had absolutely nothing on how the stationary/unmanned/robot radar reduced accidents.. just how it increased revenue. Sorta telling eh?

Click to expand...

Glad you didn't mind that I enjoyed your comments, and moved you into my TOP FIVE....certainly what you should consider an honor!

As for that often taboo subject ( starts with Re.... and ends with...ligion), I do recall passages in the Bible that tell the story of a certain individual (we'll call him J.C.) being tested by legal scholars of the day, questioning him about whose rules hold more sway - earthly or heavenly. The response was "Obey the laws of God and Man." Not sure what that does to the 'morally wrong' arguement about speeding, but sounds like a debate best reserved for the Beer Tent.

As for "speed by itself isn't unsafe," that's sort of like the logic of "It isn't the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop." Speed amplifies the danger-effect of everything from a blown tire to a separated centerstand (don't ask - it happens!) to the pothole or deer encounter to a broken clutch cable to.............well, the laundry list could go on infinitum (sort of like my posts!).

We accept a higher level of risk by merely deciding to operate a motorcycle, and I don't intend to ride around in a 'fog of paranoia' about all the things that might go wrong, but excessive speed introduces a multiplier for things that do, so it's a factor in the equation of safety. Just my spin - probably something we could only resolve after the 2nd beer.

As for my perspective on how far 'respect' goes, and whether or not that is a two-way street: absolutely. When most new LEO's come out of whatever academy they attended, they're "book-smart and street-stupid," as I liked to call it. As a Field Training Officer (FTO) for my department, the first thing I did was get them to drop the official line that "You must decide whether or not to cite a violator before you exit your squad and actually have contact with him/her." That template of thought was supposed to eliminate any possibility of being swayed by bribe, beauty, prominence, predjudice or persuasive arguement.

What a bunch of crap. We're all human, make mistakes, and some of us can actually learn from them. I taught officers to converse with 'violators' and then form an opinion as to how they might be encouraged to become a safer driver: verbal warning, written warning or citation. How a motorcyclist reacts to the presence of a squad car (i.e. sudden deceleration, which we as LEO's translate as "Yes, Officer, I see you - I've been a bad boy - I'm not going to elude"), how they dress (ATGATT, or at least a helmet), their demeanor (turn bike off, hands on the grips until the officer makes contact) goes a long way toward a more favorable outcome to the traffic stop than you might realize.

Lastly (getting winded now), that whole Wash. D.C. (just there in October, by the way - great city!) 'radar on a pole' circus (gives a twisted meaning to "under the radar!"): Radar by its very engineering, is a highly sensitive device. In the absence of a strong signal, it will react to virtually any source of electro-magnetic energy, be that a power line or lightning or high-frequency generator or whatever. That is why the human factor is critical to reliable, honest radar enforcement.

Robo-cop radar that you must suffer with....you have my sympathy, and I agree with you, it exists as a revenue machine.....very little to do with safety.

Stay warm - Kevin

I use a brother....my brother that is. He NEVER speeds and i usually follow him. In all of our riding, we have never been pulled over because we/he never speeds. It's kind of nice to "smell the roses" when traveling.