Like the new bikes? Thoughts on BMW's vision.

JAMESDUNN · Aug 29, 2009

PHMarvin said:
It doesn't matter whether I like the new offerings or not, I won't own one. The closest dealer to me is 275 miles away. I'm in a metropolitan area of 3/4 million on this side and 2+million on the Mexican side - with no BMW motorcycle dealer closer than Albuquerque! So I'll just go along, wrenching on my K75's, ordering my parts off the internet, and reading about the new products from BMW.

Marv, the nearest dealer for me is about 120 miles distant (Gina's of Iowa City, Iowa). I ride over at times, mostly just to hang around a BMW dealer. I always spend at least a bit of money. There is an ex-dealer (Ned's of Riverside,Iowa) , about the same distance away. He still sells BMW parts and works on airheads ( Jim, the original owner's son is a fountain of knowledge). Love to drop in there as well. Now, that shop has some history. Wish they were closer! There are many dealers of every stripe where I reside in Des Moines, Iowa. There is even one ex-BMW dealer here. That "ex" sure pops up a lot! Dealer network is important but lacking for a lot of us. A consideration in a new bike purchase.

I do like to look at the new bikes..when I have the time for a fairly long ride.

Astrin · Sep 4, 2009

I think the extra size and power of the K1300 bikes is questionable. The K1200 models were just fine. But I'm also glad the K1300 models have come out, if it devalues the K1200's on the used market and makes them more affordable, especially post-warranty.

On the other hand, the S1000RR is the most significant, and welcome, development by BMW since the introduction of the K bikes in 1983, in my opinion. The fact that BMW has left Formula 1 and is embracing world class motorcycle racing is FANTASTIC. And the bike itself is an absolutely incredible liter bike, I got to see Nate Kern ride it around at Blackhawk Farms Raceway two days ago. The big concern I'd have with the S1000RR on track is the high cost of replacement parts. I can find tons of low-priced parts for my Suzuki on e-Bay and Craigslist. And track bikes do tend to need parts, they go down from time to time.

So, I definitely lust after the K1200GT as a touring bike and the S1000RR as a track bike, but I'll stick to my Suzuki track bike for a long time. The GT will definitely be my next road bike, way down the line when my K75RT gets old and I convert it to a cafe racer.

stkmkt1 · Sep 4, 2009

PAULBACH said:
One "new" feature is questionable - the signal switches for turning.

For years BMW used the separate switches on the left and right because the system caused less confusion and was touted as being safer.

I notice the new GT has a single switch on the left like the rest of the crowd from Japan. Is this change safer or cheaper? I would prefer the separate switches.

The only constant is change.

I vote for separate switches also. Since 1968, I have ridden bikes with the single turn signal switch and never had issues. Then this last May, I bought my first BMW, a new GSA. Took me all of about one day to get used to the turn signals and now I really do prefer this layout versus the single switch layout. It just seems more intuitive to me.

Semper_Fi · Sep 4, 2009

astrin said:
I think the extra size and power of the K1300 bikes is questionable. ....

Interesting comment.

I like the effortless and bottemless torque and acceleration of my GT.

On the highway I do not even downshift to pass - it's not needed, it was though on my RT and I think the RT is an awesome bike, wish I could have had both.

Anyway, like all things, its a personal thing - the turbine linear power build up in the GT is seductive, tempting and luring - part of the reason we all ride, IMO.

:lurk

Astrin · Sep 4, 2009

Semper_Fi said:
I like the effortless and bottomless torque and acceleration of my GT.

For sure, but is it significantly different from the 1200 cc model? That's my comment, that the increase to 1300 cc is a bit silly. The K1200GT was already a majorly kick-ass bike!

As for turn signals, it would really be nice if BMW gave you the option to have standard or BMW style switches on all their bikes. I'd certainly opt for the BMW style switches. But I also think a lot of folks that come over from other models would prefer the standard switch, and that's perfectly fine. It's a fairly important little piece of ergonomics that should be the rider's decision.

Semper_Fi · Sep 4, 2009

astrin said:
For sure, but is it significantly different from the 1200 cc model? That's my comment, that the increase to 1300 cc is a bit silly. The K1200GT was already a majorly kick-ass bike!

Don't know :dunno

in the showroom i had both choices - went with the shiny new one

astrin said:
As for turn signals, it would really be nice if BMW gave you the option to have standard or BMW style switches on all their bikes. I'd certainly opt for the BMW style switches. But I also think a lot of folks that come over from other models would prefer the standard switch, and that's perfectly fine. It's a fairly important little piece of ergonomics that should be the rider's decision.

That is a great idea - I would have stuck with the BMW ones, more natural response, did relearn the "new" style, in then end though it becomes muscle memory, but if the option was there.............

kbasa · Sep 4, 2009

Semper_Fi said:
Don't know in the showroom i had both choices - went with the shiny new one

That is a great idea - I would have stuck with the BMW ones, more natural response, did relearn the "new" style, in then end though it becomes muscle memory, but if the option was there.............

I switch back and forth between the VFR (conventional switches) the R100 (conventional switches), the R60/2 (no switches - use your arm) and the R12RT and GS without a problem.

I can't say one is better than the other at all. They're just different.

bmwdean · Sep 4, 2009

KBasa said:
I switch back and forth between the VFR (conventional switches) the R100 (conventional switches), the R60/2 (no switches - use your arm) and the R12RT and GS without a problem.

The slash-2s all can be readily equipped with Hella bar-end signals. The signal switch is in the lower left corner of the photo below: lift up for left signal; press down for right signal. No problem. And I also like the R1200RT switch arrangement.

However, I still recommend using hand signals for visibility to motorists.

henzilla · Sep 4, 2009

astrin said:
For sure, but is it significantly different from the 1200 cc model? That's my comment, that the increase to 1300 cc is a bit silly. The K1200GT was already a majorly kick-ass bike!

As for turn signals, it would really be nice if BMW gave you the option to have standard or BMW style switches on all their bikes. I'd certainly opt for the BMW style switches. But I also think a lot of folks that come over from other models would prefer the standard switch, and that's perfectly fine. It's a fairly important little piece of ergonomics that should be the rider's decision.

The Wedge K bikes were in their first generation and who knows why they went up a few cc's...my guess is with the Asian bikes tweaking theirs,think Hyabusa's 1300 and Kawa's ZX-14 , it was an effort to catch the eye of those markets.The GT just benefitted from that engine package when it made the scene after the R's and S's. I am not sure about the GT, but the S was redesigned from a chassis standpoint and some handling issues were adressed in this latest generation...I get the adrenalin rush with the K12S in our stable...not sure I could get any more freaked out going say... another 20MPH

Not that I have ever gone over the posted limit... There are some who think 50HP was plenty and why did BMW ever go over that :stick

The turn signals are no big deal to me...I swap bikes enough to re-learn each one after a few turns. As far as an option for one or the other...more parts to stock and deal with two different designs seems too much for such a small to me issue. I still flap my arms as well in traffic! And honk at people on occasion

kbasa · Sep 4, 2009

bmwdean said:
The slash-2s all can be readily equipped with Hella bar-end signals. The signal switch is in the lower left corner of the photo below. No problem. And I also like the R1200RT switch arrangement.

However, I still recommend using hand signals for visibility to motorists.

I've got the switch, but need to drill the bars before I can run the wires to the turn signals. I've got the original Hellas that came with the bike. The flasher unit and harness are all installed, but the leads to the turn signal units are clipped.

While I've got the bars off, I might as well paint the switchgear so it's shiny right?
Which means I should probably paint the headlight shell since I'll have the bars out of the way already.
Which means I might as well send the toolbox cover and the rear fender out to get painted.

One more thing to do, right? :ha

36654 · Sep 5, 2009

Change is good, but weight and height are bad

Hello,

The new bikes look good and have all the "cutting edge" bells and whistles. However, they're the size of freaking Hummers. Whatever happened to the BMW design philosophy of nimble, reliable and a low center of gravity.

The pictures of a GS12xx going off-road reminds me of an M1A1 tank. It can be done, but why?

kbasa · Sep 5, 2009

36654 said:
Hello,

The new bikes look good and have all the "cutting edge" bells and whistles. However, they're the size of freaking Hummers. Whatever happened to the BMW design philosophy of nimble, reliable and a low center of gravity.

The pictures of a GS12xx going off-road reminds me of an M1A1 tank. It can be done, but why?

My RT weighs in more than a hundred pounds less than a comparable FJR, Concours or ST1300.

We ride on our old bikes together and while they're wonderful, it's nice to have all that cutting edge stuff. I can haul the RT down from pretty high speeds while loaded up with wife and gear with a single finger. That's a big plus, in my opinion.

:buds

shire2000 · Sep 5, 2009

There is nothing wrong with modern technology on the new bikes (if you like that sort of thing). I just feel that BMW has decided, in it's infinite wisdom, to go after a very small part of the market. They have priced themselves so high that the average Joe cannot afford them. I am talking about "Total Cost of Ownership". Not just the initial purchase price. The new bikes are more expensive than comparative bikes from other manufacturers. Then, if you don't have a dealer close by you have to factor in the added expense of getting to and from that dealer for service of any kind. On top of that, at least near where I live, the dealerships charge a premium shop rate compared to other brands. Then, on top of those obvious expenses, they do not seem to stand behind the bikes as well as they used to. Let's not bring up the recently failed differentials.

Now that may be all well and good for an elite group of people. Unfortunately, that is going to limit the amount of bikes they will sell. Their market share cannot grow substantially, which will impede the growth of their profits, which will require them to increase prices even further. It seems to me that BMW does not really want to compete in the market place. They remind me of the old tales of walking into a Bentley or Rolls Royce emporium where they say, "if you have to ask the price then you can't afford to buy". Sorry, but in this day and age, that is no longer an acceptible method of marketing. You have to be competitive or you will fail.

If BMW really wanted to compete in the market place they would look at what is happening in other parts of the market. There is nothing wrong with offering a premium high quality bike for a good but fair price. They should be looking at the total market and using it to their advantage.

Offer something to the beginning riders that they can develope brand loyalty on. Don't tell me about the 450GS, not everyone wants to start on a $10,000Cdn dual purpose bike. Get the price down to something the average 16-21 year old can afford. You get them hooked young and they will stay loyal to the brand.

Offer something in the way of a modern retro style for those that grew up with the old /5, /6 & /7 style bikes. Many other brands are marketing directly to that segment, which is the Baby Boomers who have the largest amount of disposable income. Why do you think there are so many of us that will spend huge money to rebuild and keep our old airheads running?

No, I think that BMW has lost their way in the marketing department. They are overpriced, don't offer any reason for loyalty to brand, don't stand behind the limited dealer network they do have and appear to have no intention of increasing it.

seniorasi · Sep 5, 2009

shire2000 said:
There is nothing wrong with modern technology on the new bikes (if you like that sort of thing). I just feel that BMW has decided, in it's infinite wisdom, to go after a very small part of the market. They have priced themselves so high that the average Joe cannot afford them. I am talking about "Total Cost of Ownership". Not just the initial purchase price. The new bikes are more expensive than comparative bikes from other manufacturers. Then, if you don't have a dealer close by you have to factor in the added expense of getting to and from that dealer for service of any kind. On top of that, at least near where I live, the dealerships charge a premium shop rate compared to other brands. Then, on top of those obvious expenses, they do not seem to stand behind the bikes as well as they used to. Let's not bring up the recently failed differentials.

Now that may be all well and good for an elite group of people. Unfortunately, that is going to limit the amount of bikes they will sell. Their market share cannot grow substantially, which will impede the growth of their profits, which will require them to increase prices even further. It seems to me that BMW does not really want to compete in the market place. They remind me of the old tales of walking into a Bentley or Rolls Royce emporium where they say, "if you have to ask the price then you can't afford to buy". Sorry, but in this day and age, that is no longer an acceptible method of marketing. You have to be competitive or you will fail.

If BMW really wanted to compete in the market place they would look at what is happening in other parts of the market. There is nothing wrong with offering a premium high quality bike for a good but fair price. They should be looking at the total market and using it to their advantage.

Offer something to the beginning riders that they can develope brand loyalty on. Don't tell me about the 450GS, not everyone wants to start on a $10,000Cdn dual purpose bike. Get the price down to something the average 16-21 year old can afford. You get them hooked young and they will stay loyal to the brand.

Offer something in the way of a modern retro style for those that grew up with the old /5, /6 & /7 style bikes. Many other brands are marketing directly to that segment, which is the Baby Boomers who have the largest amount of disposable income. Why do you think there are so many of us that will spend huge money to rebuild and keep our old airheads running?

No, I think that BMW has lost their way in the marketing department. They are overpriced, don't offer any reason for loyalty to brand, don't stand behind the limited dealer network they do have and appear to have no intention of increasing it.

Dave, I agree with your evaluation of the BMW price structure and the assessment of the mechanical problems with the final drive. ( I think that is what you are referencing. Differential, in mechanical terms, allows two wheels to turn at different speeds, hence the term "differential". )

The final drive problem is the only reason I'm not riding a new GSA. I've been to the dealer 3 times in the last two (2) months to look at them. What a beautiful machine. But when I get there and look at the final drive and know I'm in for a $4,000.00 bill somewhere down the line, my gut feeling is no way! The flip side is I love my piece of crap airhead. It has been really abused by the PO'S and still starts and runs every time I get on it to ride. There is not a single exterior part that has not suffered trauma in one form or another and it is really not worth restoring, but for a rider you don't have to fret about not ever washing it does the trick for me. I've owned it since March and haven't washed it yet.

shire2000 · Sep 5, 2009

Airheads are just like that. They keep on going. Sure, there are some mechanical issues that one has to contend with as they age, but that is with anything that is mechanical (or otherwise). Plus, on most airheads you don't have to take an hour or more to remove a bunch of tupperware to find the engine.

People complain about valve recession, tranny circlips and many other little problems, but in reality, those things tend to be considered standard maintenance issues by those that choose to ride them. Take care of what is there until it needs fixing. On the other hand, buy a new GSA and you had better have an extra $4000 set aside for the final drive rebuild that you know will happen sooner than later.

Differential or Final Drive? Maybe I should not use them meaning the same thing. I know that technically one is for any sort of drive system while the other is considered for driving 2 wheels at different speeds. But then you get into things like limited slip, locked rear ends, etc. Suffice it to say that I meant the final drive.

My current ride, being an old airhead as well, has many "battle scars" that I have no intention of repairing. Maybe one day I will get around to a full "restoration" and sand and paint it all. But right now, I prefer to ride. So I ensure that it is mechanically safe and sound, and that nothing is rattling or about to fall off.

3 more months and it will be time for it's yearly bath and general cleanup.

JAMESDUNN · Sep 5, 2009

shire2000 said:
Airheads are just like that. They keep on going. Sure, there are some mechanical issues that one has to contend with as they age, but that is with anything that is mechanical (or otherwise). Plus, on most airheads you don't have to take an hour or more to remove a bunch of tupperware to find the engine.

People complain about valve recession, tranny circlips and many other little problems, but in reality, those things tend to be considered standard maintenance issues by those that choose to ride them. Take care of what is there until it needs fixing. On the other hand, buy a new GSA and you had better have an extra $4000 set aside for the final drive rebuild that you know will happen sooner than later.

Differential or Final Drive? Maybe I should not use them meaning the same thing. I know that technically one is for any sort of drive system while the other is considered for driving 2 wheels at different speeds. But then you get into things like limited slip, locked rear ends, etc. Suffice it to say that I meant the final drive.

My current ride, being an old airhead as well, has many "battle scars" that I have no intention of repairing. Maybe one day I will get around to a full "restoration" and sand and paint it all. But right now, I prefer to ride. So I ensure that it is mechanically safe and sound, and that nothing is rattling or about to fall off.

3 more months and it will be time for it's yearly bath and general cleanup.

Dave, a lot of folk use differential to describe the final drive. I knew what you meant when I read your post. Hey! Are you sure there is a BMW under all that dirt? I wash mine more often than you, but not a lot more often! Airheads are very reliable, and yes, I know some argue otherwise, but frequently they are bought without proper maintenance. Then the new but disgruntled owner "sounds off". On bikes that have been maintained it is a different story. If I ever sell my present airhead, the new purchaser will get a "coast to coast" motorsickle!

shire2000 · Sep 5, 2009

Well, with the hot dry spring and summer we have had here, the major issue is the bugs all over the front of the bike. I am pretty certain that it is still an airhead I sit on as there are these 2 big obstructions in front of my feet and I don't remember running over anything big enough to stay there and petrify. I think the biggest thing I hit was some June bugs, thank gawd for the fairing, windshield and the full face helmet. Those things hurt and leave a welt!!!

seniorasi · Sep 5, 2009

shire2000 said:
Well, with the hot dry spring and summer we have had here, the major issue is the bugs all over the front of the bike. I am pretty certain that it is still an airhead I sit on as there are these 2 big obstructions in front of my feet and I don't remember running over anything big enough to stay there and petrify. I think the biggest thing I hit was some June bugs, thank gawd for the fairing, windshield and the full face helmet. Those things hurt and leave a welt!!!

I heard you guys got mosquitos as big as June bugs up there in Canada...probably want to watch out for them too eh?

GILLY · Sep 6, 2009

36654 said:
The pictures of a GS12xx going off-road reminds me of an M1A1 tank. It can be done, but why?

Because sometimes the enemy isn't ON the road??? :dunno

Gilly

seniorasi · Sep 6, 2009

gilly said:
because sometimes the enemy isn't on the road???

gilly

+1!

Like the new bikes? Thoughts on BMW's vision.

JAMESDUNN

Guest

gentleman rider

New member

Honey Badger

gentleman rider

Honey Badger

Well-known member

BMW MOA co-founder

not so retired

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

shire2000

Guest

seniorasi

Guest

shire2000

Guest

JAMESDUNN

Guest

shire2000

Guest

seniorasi

Guest

What, me worry?

seniorasi

Guest

Similar threads