A stupid question about getting shocks.

mistercindy · Jan 19, 2009

How do you know when you need them?

It sounds silly, but that's my question. My 12GS turned 50,000 miles last week and I'm still on the stock shocks that came with the bike. If they've gone bad then its been so gradual that I haven't noticed it. They seem okay, but I may just be ignorant as how they ought to feel. And if they're okay, then I've no desire to run out and spend money.

The facts & stats:

I weigh 280 pounds
more than 90% of my riding is urban highway commuting
Offroad is fairly rare, and when I am offroad it tends to be on maintained dirt or gravel.
Like I said, the bike is an '05 12GS with 50,500 miles on it.

So, is there any way to test them? Or inspect them? Sorry if the question seems stupid, but I don't know any other way to ask.

MotorradMike · Jan 19, 2009

Hey buddy:

Just so you don't get in too much hot water for not searching, here is a recent question just like yours.
http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=30524&referrerid=31621

I think your question is not well answered in the above thread so hopefully they will have a second kick at it, I have the same stupid question.

trident74 · Jan 19, 2009

I went thru the same thing that you are. I wouldn't beleive my shocks were gone on my 03 K12rs. I thought that the shocks felt OK. But shocks don't go bad overnight, and you start to compensate for the ride that you fell. Beleive me your shocks are not doing the job that should be doing. Stock shocks will cost just about the same as after market shocks.
Good luck

Val
NEPA

mistercindy · Jan 19, 2009

MotorradMike said:
Hey buddy:

Just so you don't get in too much hot water for not searching, here is a recent question just like yours.
http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=30524&referrerid=31621

I think your question is not well answered in the above thread so hopefully they will have a second kick at it, I have the same stupid question.

I did a couple of searches in the Gear forum (which is where I figured this belongs) using couple of key words, and I looked at the titles that came up. None seemed to fit.

Thanks for the posting that thread, but its in the Oilhead forum (mine's a hexhead) which I didn't try. And you're right: a couple of answers touch on it by saying X miles and they're shot, etc..., but that's about it. Those mileage answers are somewhat helpful, but I'd like to know their riding conditions (highway, offroad, gravel, hard core dirt). I'm assuming it makes a difference. Other than my weight, I assume that my style of riding is relatively mellow as it pertains to shocks.

What I really want to hear is if there's a test or something that I can do (ie., stand flat footed and let myself fall on the seat and notice how the bike reacts, etc...) to tell me if they're shot. My guess is there isn't one.

mistercindy · Jan 19, 2009

trident74 said:
I went thru the same thing that you are. I wouldn't beleive my shocks were gone on my 03 K12rs. I thought that the shocks felt OK. But shocks don't go bad overnight, and you start to compensate for the ride that you fell. Beleive me your shocks are not doing the job that should be doing.

That's my hunch. I plan on riding it another 50,000 miles so if I need them its worth the investment.

trident74 said:
Stock shocks will cost just about the same as after market shocks.

Is that right? I assumed that high end Ohlins, Wilbers, and the like were a lot more expensive than OEM. If they cost the same why would you ever replace OEM shocks with more OEM shocks when there are better alternatives?

bikerfish1100 · Jan 19, 2009

mistercindy said:
That's my hunch. I plan on riding it another 50,000 miles so if I need them its worth the investment.

Is that right? I assumed that high end Ohlins, Wilbers, and the like were a lot more expensive than OEM. If they cost the same why would you ever replace OEM shocks with more OEM shocks when there are better alternatives?

$944 retail for the rear, $755 from Chicago BMW. That's real close to the cost of an Ohlins (last i heard was around $1700 the pair). Once the difference is that slight... absolutely upgrade!

why don't people make the automatic upgrade? good question. some think OEM has to be the best, without realizing that suspension is the place where EVERY company will play around to reach their price point. remember- BMW does not make shocks, never has. They market that out to shock specialists- they tell them what they want, and what they're willing to pay.
Ollies, Penske and Wilbers are all highly rated (i have an Ohlins rear and Wilbers fornt on mine)- see what you can find, make the switch, and you will never assess suspension the same way again.
i pull shocks early- mine came off my 11S at 14,000. they were still in fine shape- i just hated the ride they offered. at 50K, yours are, at the best, close to done.

Manfred · Jan 19, 2009

Upon returning to motorcycles, 5 years ago, after a 15 year break, I noticed how crumby stock suspension was once I started riding the good roads. I upgraded both ends of two vintage Yamahas and was amazed at the difference - particularly the rear.

When I got serious about a BMW, one of the major considerations in my choosing the bike I did was that a P.O. had spent major bucks upgrading the suspension on both ends.

wanderer · Jan 20, 2009

Stayin' real

I just went throughthe same process. I did the searches, I read the threads. I never found 1 objective answer. ...Not 1.

I'd really be interested in doing a blind test. NEW factory shocks, NEW high dollar after market shocks. 50K on a factory set and 50K on an after market set. Seat of the pants blind test by about 10 BMW seasoned riders. I think the results would be very very interesting. :scratch

I'm not saying there is no difference, I am saying after popping $1,500 to $1,800 I'll bet my mind tells by butt there had better be a big difference.

pglaves · Jan 20, 2009

On a classic K bike without telelever or paralever you can detect insufficient damping by feeling the undulation in the back of the bike - a vague wallowing felt right at the bike seat when leaned over in a medium speed curve.

The telelever/paralever makes this a lot harder to detect.

But if you hit a single bump and feel the bike go boing twice or more times instend of once the damping is insufficient.

108625 · Jan 20, 2009

bikerfish1100 said:
some think OEM has to be the best, without realizing that suspension is the place where EVERY company will play around to reach their price point. remember- BMW does not make shocks, never has. They market that out to shock specialists- they tell them what they want, and what they're willing to pay.

Most BMW shocks (even if they say BMW and have a BMW part #) are supplied by Showa, a Japanese company with ties to Honda. You're paying a premium for a BMW sticker on the part.
Most of the aftermarket shocks offer other advantages: they can be custom ordered in a wider range of spring rates, and they are rebuildable. The OEM stuff is usually "one size fits all", and is replacement only.

wanderer · Jan 20, 2009

Thanks Paul

I always believed in the bounce once test (I still do.) I have a drainage dip near my house. Most cars slow to about 10mph to go through it. I routinely hit it at 30 mph. I do it seated and I do it on the pegs. I am focusing on the bike pogoing every time I do it. I swear the suspension compresses once and rebounds once. I conclude I do not need shocks. BUT that seems impossible as I have 118K on the ORIGINAL shocks. I have replacements in the garage and they will go on before spring. But I'll be darned if I can find a way to prove mine are shot, yet I can't imagine they haven't been dead for a long time. They have never leaked and if I tighten the rear preload I believe I can feel a difference. Too wierd for me to explain.
:bikes

mistercindy · Jan 20, 2009

wanderer said:
I always believed in the bounce once test (I still do.) I have a drainage dip near my house. Most cars slow to about 10mph to go through it. I routinely hit it at 30 mph. I do it seated and I do it on the pegs. I am focusing on the bike pogoing every time I do it. I swear the suspension compresses once and rebounds once. I conclude I do not need shocks. BUT that seems impossible as I have 118K on the ORIGINAL shocks. I have replacements in the garage and they wll go on before spring. But I'll be darned if I can find a way to prove mine are shot, yet I can't imagine they haven't been dead for a long time. They have never leaked and if I tighten the rear preload I believe I can feel a difference. Too wierd for me to explain.

Okay, this sounds close to what I was seeking.

Are you saying: 30 MPH over a decent sized dip with one compression followed by one rebound (no multiple boinging or pogoing) means that, to you, the shocks are not shot (ie., they're okay even if not the best)? If so, that's easily testable.

wanderer · Jan 20, 2009

Yea, that's what I always thought. BUT, I also can't/ won't believe shocks can go 118K and still be good. I, like others, am looking for a sure fire test, which doesn't seem to exist.

bikerfish1100 · Jan 20, 2009

wanderer said:
I just went throughthe same process. I did the searches, I read the threads. I never found 1 objective answer. ...Not 1.

I'd really be interested in doing a blind test. NEW factory shocks, NEW high dollar after market shocks. 50K on a factory set and 50K on an after market set. Seat of the pants blind test by about 10 BMW seasoned riders. I think the results would be very very interesting.

I'm not saying there is no difference, I am saying after popping $1,500 to $1,800 I'll bet my mind tells by butt there had better be a big difference.

recognize that at 50k miles, the aftermarkets were probably recently rebuilt, and are functioning as a nearly new shock. very difficult to find someone who can/will rebuild an OEM unit.

i would also suggest that your "single bounce test" is insufficient to test the real performance of the shocks.
try running a curvy road, with repeated rises, falls, undulations and bumps of varying sorts. if the chassis gets all out of sorts on you, there's your answer. you should not have to compensate for your bike doing really funky things on the road, it should be pretty smooth and controlled.

wanderer · Jan 20, 2009

Well I don't know

I've been on a curvey road or 2. The factory shocks in this photo had 100K on them and I was fully loaded for camping on a 17 day tour. [Deals Gap 5/08]

bikerfish1100 · Jan 20, 2009

....and a road like the Dragon would be ideal for telling you what's going on underneath you. last time i was there, i recall more than a single up/down opportunity.

wanderer · Jan 20, 2009

Can't wait for Spring

Well, as I posted earlier, I have replacement shocks in the garage. I hope I can feel a difference after they go on. :bikes

A stupid question about getting shocks.

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