I have a K1200 that's a Lemon

I Have A K1200 Lemon And Need Help!!!! Please!!!

Hi everyone,
IÔÇÖm a new member to the owners group.
IÔÇÖm also a new BMW owner.
I would like to say I have been riding for 32 years.
I am a member of the Blue Knights LEMC since 1994 NY 2.
I have been on the escort team for 5 years.
I feel and have been told IÔÇÖm an exceptional rider.
I have a problem and I need some advice and some help.
I purchased a BMW K1200 LTE 2003 in April of 2003.
I have less than 3200 miles on the bike.
I have had 3 Clutches replace under warranty due to ÔÇ£faulty partsÔÇØ.
I have had problems with the charging system and radio.
I can go in to details of dates and other problems and I will in the future.
IÔÇÖm posting this in hope that some one might be able to give me some advice or know who can turn to so I can get this problem resolved.
I purchase the bike new from a dealer in New York and I live in New Jersey.
I was told by customer service at BMW North America that there are no Lemon laws and they are not required to provide me with a new bike. In the past year my bike has been in the shop 12 weeks on and off for problems. IÔÇÖm at the end of my rope and was hoping some one out there that has had experience with a new motorcycle that was a lemon could help. I want BMW to come to the front line and replace this bike with a new one why do they seem to be disinterested in helping me.
They compensated me by sending me a check for $345 for being inconvenienced while my bike was being serviced under warranty.
My e-mail is hshash@aol.com and would be grateful for some intelligent input or if someone can point me in the right direction.
My dealer said that BMW should replace it and they were not able to help me that it was out of there hands.
BMW's Customer services representative Mr. B Novola said they were not going to replace the bike that they would however keep fixing any problems under warranty.
Any one that can help it would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Harry Shasho

PS
My 1993 Harley has 143000 miles with the original clutch.
SomethingÔÇÖs a lot wrong why isnÔÇÖt BMW Motorad playing games you would think after 3 major repairs they would help me. Now itÔÇÖs been in the shop since 3/9/03 because the clutch is acting up again after 300 miles geeze it now the 4th major problem.

New Jersey includes Motorcycles in their Lemon Law.

http://autopedia.com/html/HotLinks_Lemon2.html

State: New Jersey 6/20/83 Amended 4/1/93

Covers: Passenger automobiles or motorcycles leased, purchased or registered in the state, except the living facilities of motor homes. (M)

Repair Attempts/Days out of Servcie: 3 repair attempts or more than 20 calendar days out of service.

Coverage Period: 2 years or 18,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

Also, you might check out www.bmwlt.net (the K1200LT resource on the internet)

Regards,

Jeff

K1200 Lemon

a1340vtwin

Sent you an E-mail about some ideas on resolution of your bikes poor quality issues.

Good luck and keep us posted on your results.

Ironhorsecowboy--Ron Tinker

Wow..after reading the lemon list , I am particularly disturbed that California does not recognize motorcycles as part of the lemon law...hard to figure

gary442 said:

Wow..after reading the lemon list , I am particularly disturbed that California does not recognize motorcycles as part of the lemon law...hard to figure

Click to expand...

Probably because it's not true.

The CA lemon law is in the Civil Code, and ?º 1793.22(e)2 defines covered vehicles. The principal definition for a covered vehicle is "a new motor vehicle that is bought or used primarily for personal, family, or household purposes." Later in that same section, there's a "does not include" clause which says "...does not include a motorcycle or a motor vehicle which is not registered under the Vehicle Code because it is to be operated or used exclusively off the highways."

This suggests to me that exclusively off-road vehicles don't qualify, but that licenseable road-legal bikes do. My view is supported by the language of the California Department of Consumer Affairs' brochure "Lemon-aid for Consumers," which uses both definitions above. In the section on what vehicles are and aren't covered, the brochure quotes exactly the "which is not registered" language above.

On the other hand, the state Attorney General, in his website, says: "The term "new motor vehicle," however, does not include motorcycles or exclusively off-road vehicles."

Given the broad general definition (primary use for personal, family, or household purposes) and the specificity of the exclusions, I think the AG is wrong, and his misapprehension arises from the could-be-clearer language of the statute.

There are no reported California cases which construe this particular language. I remember seeing a website from a CA attorney who does this sort of work (I don't) stating that the law did in fact apply to road-going bikes.

Doesn't the 'MOA have someone serving as a consumer advocate for our members with BMWNA or whatever the heck they're called this month? Rob Lentini maybe?

My 2 cents

Familiarize yourself with your rights under the Lemon Law.
Decide what it is that you want. (i.e. new bike, compensation or whatever)
Stick to your guns and work your way up the food chain.
Do not be put off by anyone who tries to dismiss your claim.
I liken this to trying to get some insurance claims handled. You have to know the facts, don't let anyone blow smoke up your hinney, and don't quit.
I had almost all of my worldly possessions in a storage place during a move and the roof leaked. I took pictures. They tried to brush me off for 6 weeks. Stuck to my guns and argued my way up the corporate ladder. Also filed complaints with the Insurance Commissioner of the State of Michigan.
It took awhile, but my claim was settled.
Hang tough and don't believe everything you are told - find out for yourself. Get in touch with the Consumer Division of your Attorney Generals office. Make a ruckus!!!
End of sermon. Good luck.

I have a K1200 thats a lemon Part 2 Please Help!!!

Hi everyone,
(If youÔÇÖre going to read this please read the previous letter first this is part 2)
Thanks for the feedback it helps to know that there are ears out there.
I found out that through your direction I am protected by a lemon law even though I bought the BMW 1200 LTE in New York (which has no lemon law for motorcycles by the way) it is registered and titled in New Jersey.
I got off the phone today 3/23/04 with Mr. William Skully one of the heads of customer service of BMW motorad.
I informed him of my problem that I was having with my bike and if he was aware of my situation and he stated that Mr.Novola was and is in charge of this problem and was told he was aware of it.
My new found knowledge of the consumer law it did not impress him I was also told that they were not going to even entertain the idea of replacing this bike due to the fact they were able to "fix it" and make repairs to the bike the last 3 times.
Now that itÔÇÖs in for the same problem for the 4th time they want the opportunity to check and dismiss this any problems that I am telling them that exists with the clutch.
This motorcycle has now been in there possession for 3 weeks as of this Friday 3/26/04.
I was told that they donÔÇÖt see the makings of a 4th failed clutch even though it was slipping and developing a new personality after 300 miles on the ÔÇ£newÔÇØ replaced 3rd clutch.
They told me that they had one of the mechanics "drive my new motorcycle for several hundred miles to assure me that there is no problem with the clutch.
IÔÇÖm looking at what IÔÇÖm writing here and I know it might sound like IÔÇÖm crazy or inexperienced...IÔÇÖm not. As I said in my previous posting I have been riding for over 30 years and I feel BMW is just trying to dodge the fact that there is an on going problem with this bike.
The Dealer who I got it from BMW New York is a square guy (Joel) and has backed up my findings and provided me with good service from the time I walked in till present day.
When the second clutch failed Mr. Bob Novola from BMW asked me to bring the bike for its third replaced clutch to BMW MANHATTAN (BMW NY Competition) to ÔÇ£make sure the work is done properlyÔÇØ after they made the repair and replaced the clutch for the third time they (the service managers at BMW Manhattan) told me off the record that doubt that BMW NY replaced my clutch at all and thatÔÇÖs why I had a third blown clutch.
To me that was insane, IÔÇÖm being told now an authorized BMW dealer and service center might have not done the work they told me they did? That they gave me a Motorcycle that had a band aid?
Something is ay wrong here. I told the guys at BMW New York this and you can imagine what they said in response to that claim.
I am now caught in between a feud between two dealers that are 1 mile apart from each other, with BMW USA not looking out for my better interest.
Again the bottom line. 3 replaced clutches under warranty. The 3rd one they are now claiming it was patched up work from a bad repair job as opposed to warranty work.
A fourth problem with the clutch which they are telling me does not exist.
Now Keep in mind between all this was a replaced defective battery, a faulty charging system and a defective radio as well.
Now instead of them taking care of me a BMW customer I was told that they will not replace the bike but they will continue to make all repairs that fall under warranty.
In order for me to get what I want and I deserve I have to take legal actions? What happened to the word customer service? ÔÇ£HEY BMW IM ONE OF THE GOOD GUYS. DO THE RIGHT THING!!ÔÇØ
If any one has any information that can help me get through to some one that is at BMW that can help me please let me know.
I was told by Ellen Freedell that Mr. Arturo Pineiro who is the Executive Vice President of BMW Motor Cycles NA does not speak to customers in regards to consumer complaints.
Stay tune for updates next week.
I do appreciate all the advice from everyone; thank you for listening to my problem.
Sincerely
Harry Shasho

Two threads merged.

As much as I hate to say it, I think you might have to call out the Big Nuke on this: The Lawyers.

Clearly you are not able to communitcate your distress - or they are unable to understand your distress - perhaps someone needs to be looking out for your interests.

A letter on a law firms stationary may be able to send that message.

RA Article

The latest rag from BMWRA reflects on how BMW NA looks at BMW motorcycle owners. Something about being whiners.

gsmetal said:

As much as I hate to say it, I think you might have to call out the Big Nuke on this: The Lawyers.

Clearly you are not able to communitcate your distress - or they are unable to understand your distress - perhaps someone needs to be looking out for your interests.

A letter on a law firms stationary may be able to send that message.

Click to expand...

Sounds like your next course of action to me as well. That or sell the bike back and buy a *GASP* Honda!

YB in IN said:

Sounds like your next course of action to me as well. That or sell the bike back and buy a *GASP* Honda!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I hear Honda is making some smoking deals on Gold Wings with re-welded frames.

jdiaz said:

Yeah, I hear Honda is making some smoking deals on Gold Wings with re-welded frames.

Click to expand...

I Have A Bmw K1200 Thats A Lemon And Need Help

Thanks for the feedback.
For the record I bought my bike from BMW of New York on 10th St from Joel Sacher.
He is a great guy.
I originally started out ant BMW of Manhattan they low balled me on the price of the BMW LTE and Joel gave me there low ball price to make a customer under 19k all in.
The first 2 clutches went out and both plus a small list of other things were taken care of I dealt with Mr. Novola on the second on.
He kicked me back $345 for the hassle of my ride being in service so long.
Any way when the third clutch went out I called up Mr. Novola and he recommended highly that I bring the bike to BMW Manhattan so they could do the work and check out BMW NY work.
At that point I wanted a new bike. He assured me things would be handled.
I got the bike back 3 weeks later repaired not fixed no compensation and David the service manager told me aside from a faulty tranny seal he found no reason other than it looks like the clutch might have not been replaced. I was amazed that he would even say such a thing.
Any way lots of apologize from Mr. Novola. And go on your way and enjoy the bike.
300 mile or so later the Clutch was developing that new personality of going bad the bike has been there for the last 3 weeks with the statement that they see nothing wrong.
I been riding for 30 years and IÔÇÖm on the escort team of the Blue Knight for the last 7 I know what Im doing.
Any way thatÔÇÖs were I am now...IÔÇÖve spoken to William Skully Mr. Novola's Boss. IÔÇÖve been turn down by Ellen Fredell who is Mr. Pineros Secretary He is the Vice president of BMW NA MOTORAD.
And Before taking legal action Ill exhaust all sources this way.
Again thanks keep in touch

Sincerely
Harry Shasho
R>W>P

I Have A Bmw K1200 Lte That A Lemon And Need Help

I thanks I appreciate that tip and I was made aware of that at the time of purchase and when I first rode the bike at Americade.
A few of my fellow Blue Knight brothers have the LT and we have switched bikes a few times in the past years and all there clutches are still working fine.

The repairs on the first two clutches are documented defective parts the third was speculation and replaced under warranty.
IÔÇÖm a 43year old driver with a titanium plate installed in my spine in June of 2003 IÔÇÖm a mellow rider with a BMW K1200 LTE that should be painted YELLOW because itÔÇÖs a LEMON.
DonÔÇÖt get me wrong or read in between the lines I love this bike I think itÔÇÖs the most responsive cruiser on the market with every luxury that a well season rider could want.
I just got the one that has some major problems.

>A letter on a law firms stationary may be able to send that message.

My sentiment exactly. They won't take you seriously until a lawyer is involved. Several F650GS owners with surgin/stalling FI were remedied that way. Unfortunately, you may just get your money back, not a new bike.

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Harry Shasho March 7th2004

206 Lakeview Ave.
Leonia, NJ 07605
Re BMW K1200 LTE
VIN No. WB1055A23ZD78787
Tel: 201 -363-1922
Cell: 917- 592-2881
E-mail HSHASH@AOL.COM



To whom it may concern,
This letter is the first that I have written to lodge a formal complaint.
My name is Harry Shasho and I have been riding motorcycles for the past 30 years.
I have owned dirt bikes, high performance bike, cruisers, choppers, and numerous other 2 wheeled vehicles and a skilled motorcyclist.
I am a member of The Blue Knights Law Enforcement motorcycle Club NY11 for the past 10 years and a part of there escort team.
I have also put over 140000 miles on my 1993 Harley Heritage.
I am giving you this brief outline of my self so that you understand that I am not a novice to riding motorcycles.
In April of 20003 after doing several months of research I decided to get the BMW LTE 1200.
At first I went to Manhattan BMW and priced it out and made a comparison to another dealer close by New York BMW.
After being low balled by Manhattan BMW I got my best price from Joel at BMW NY.
He was a stand up guy and kept his word and I made my purchase.
The next day after getting my bike home for some reason the battery was dead the next morning.
I had to drive from my home in New Jersey to get a battery tender to charge the battery I went back home and let my new bike sit and charge over night.
The next day It started up and I took it for a ride after about sixty miles. I stopped and the bike would not start the battery was dead I got a push start and got it home.
The next day I drove it to the dealer and he was kind enough to provide me with a new sealed battery at now extra charge and I went on my way with out any further problems I had my oil service after its break in period, bought a communication package did every thing I was supposed to do to maintain my new bike.

Now I wasnÔÇÖt able to ride for several months because I had spine surgery but as soon as was able bodied I started riding.
As I was approaching the thirteen hundred mile mark my shifting and clutch started to take on a slightly new personality I went to the dealer to find out if it is something to be concerned about I was told that itÔÇÖs working fine that just the way it shifts.
At the fifteen hundred mark I was riding home and my bike was loosing torque and the clutch was slipping and something was not right.
I called the dealer and he told me to get it in to the shop.
I used my road side warranty tow service the told me it would cost me two hundred and twenty two tow it and I would be reimburse one hundred I was pretty upset being that I

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only eighteen miles away it should be between eight five and tops one hundred and ten, but anyway I needed to get it there.
The bike got delivered and off to service it went.
I got a phone call from the dealer stated my clutch burned and every plate was destroyed and the whole system needed to be replaced.
I was told that a part was defective in the bikes which cause the clutch to burn out and be destroyed.
I didnÔÇÖt have my bike for a few weeks but it was ok I have another one to ride I figured stuff happens at least it happened close to home.
I was assured that everything was tested and the bike would not have any problems and it was safe to ride.
Record of Clutch Number 1.

I got my bike back everything was fine it even felt better than when I got it new.
I rode my bike and started to put some miles on it when all of sudden it started to once again get a new personality it its shifting and the engagement point was changing and something just wasnÔÇÖt right.
I was again luckily not to far from home by the time I got to my house the clutch was unresponsive in a gears here we go again.
I called the dealer called the towing service paid for a tow and got my bike to the dealer.
Less than twenty four hundred miles and my second clutch?
I was very upset to say the least.
The service tech was amazed and even questioned me an asked if I was doing hole shots with the bike.
I assured him I had never even so much had even popped the clutch on the bike.
The bike in my mind was not serviced properly I was assured that it would be this time that it would be taken apart and everything would be replace from top to bottom.
I was the told that there was a defective relay and it wasnÔÇÖt my fault.
And it was something that wasnÔÇÖt replaced last time because there was nothing wrong with it when it was service the first time.
During the time it was in service for almost 1 month I was also told that there was something wrong with the charging system and that my radio was being replaced under warranty as well because it had burned out.

I had made contact with Bob Nevola at BMW customer service during this repair time and told me that for the hassle and head aches an out of pocket expenses that he would send me
Three hundred twenty as compensation, Mean while I was making payments on a bike I didnÔÇÖt have to ride paying for tows that my free road side service didnÔÇÖt cover entirely and I had to rent a car because no one ever offered a loaner bike while every one of these problems happened.
Anyway I figured that it was better to have a little money back than nothing.
I spoke with Bob and I was assured that nothing like this has ever happened and that BMW is a stand up company and I asked if the bike could be replaced due to the fact it seems to be problematic or to say the least a LEMON.
I was told very upfront that it wouldnÔÇÖt be replace and donÔÇÖt worry everything will be fine this time around.
To say the least I was very uncomfortable with the ÔÇ£gremlinsÔÇØ in the high end motorcycle.

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I asked Mr.Nevola what happens if another problem happens and that I take cross country road trips often he told me that BMW stand by there customers and all work is guaranteed.
Record of Clutch Number 2.

I got my bike and IÔÇÖm back n the road and every thing once again seems tight and great response and coming to about five hundred a thirty miles on the bike after its newly installed from top to bottom clutch when its starts to get a new personality once again after riding the bike from my home in New Jersey to Brooklyn on the way back the clutch lever took a longer pull out to engage and was starting to loose torque and for the third time it was all starting over again.
This time I called up Mr. Nevola and told him that I was really upset and I didnÔÇÖt want to bring it back to NY BMW for service that maybe they werenÔÇÖt doing the correct work and that I would like to bring it to Manhattan BMW, he said that they were a more reliable service facility and would be able to fix the problem once and for all.
I had the bike delivered once again via flat bed because it was not safe to ride there and one again out of my pocket because the warrantees tow company didnÔÇÖt have any one available.
I spoke with the service manager David who assured me they would find out why the clutch was burning out ad fix it once and for all.
I was told that the transmission seal wasnÔÇÖt replace on the last service but even more alarming that if he had to take a guess at why the clutch burned out after five hundred miles or so was that BMW of New York never replace the clutch and just put a band aid on it.
I dismissed that reason and was again assured that the bikes entire clutch system was replace from top to bottom including seals and new fluid etc.
David also rode the bike for the first ninety eight miles to make sure it was sound and safe.
When I picked up the bike I really needed to make sure nothing like this should happen again I was planning on doing some cross country riding and I wanted a safe sound bike I could get on the rode with.
I had to cancel two trip due to repairs and I just wanted the new bike in safe condition that I paid and that IÔÇÖm still paying for.
Record of Clutch Number 3


Well today is March 6th 2003 it has been three hundred and twenty mile since my new clutch only three thousand one hundred ninety five miles on the BMW LTE 1200.
And guess what itÔÇÖs screwing up again or should I say developing a new personality.
The bikes clutch does not engage properly in shifts to first gear and Intermittently it skipped gears it does not shift as smoothly as it should and has the same symptoms as it did when it failed the last threes times loosing torque and a longer shift before engagement.

Maybe its nothing, maybe its just needs adjustment or maybe IÔÇÖm writing this letter in hast.
Or maybe this bike is so filled with problems that it needs to be replaced.
I canÔÇÖt drive a new bike that I donÔÇÖt feel safe on, that has had three clutches and a charging system replaced and a radio.
I bought a new bike for twenty thousand dollars that has been in a service shop for al most 3 months out of eleven.